Wikileak cable mentions life on other planets.

Reminds me how when the space program is mentioned people respond by saying "Space is grand and interesting, but we really should be spending money on more earthly things first."

I bet someone asked about ET life. It's a gentle way of saying, "P*** off! This is more important."

It's the ol' keeping your feet on the ground and not getting caught making castles in the sky.

My argument is: what if fixing things on earth requires us to learn about space?

Seems like it's just an excuse for men to fight since they have an ancient lust for the danger.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
Benifit in world Peace? Why would you think that? This is not Star Trek. There is no PRIME DIRECTIVE. The fact is that certain races of E.T. have no problem whatsoever doing whatever they would like to a Human Being....without ANY REGRETS or feelings of conscious or do they have the concept that they are doing anything wrong to begin with as our perspectives of RIGHT AND WRONG are based on our Human Condition. They do neither think as we do nor do they have a template of understanding as why we would feel certain things they do are horrible or invasive....

The question is:
Would it be beneficial for the people of Earth to be at peace with each other if ever the time comes that ET's decide to openly make contact with this planet?

Whether those aliens are peaceful or not may be a relevant point, but that's part of a different issue altogether. I think that it matters that the Earth show a unified (i.e., generally peaceful) front if that time ever comes -- whether those aliens have peaceful intentions or not.

I don't know if we could ever survive as a species if they decide they want to exterminate us -- maybe we can or maybe we can't. But one thing is certain: If we are fighting amongst ourselves the same time we are trying to fight them, then we have no chance whatsoever.

On the other hand, if they are generally peaceful, and see us as a bunch of warring barbarians, that can't bode well for us, either. "Civilized" humans in the past have always considered wiping out barbarians to be a noble thing to do.

They are not mentaly constrained as we are.

Perhaps, or perhaps not.
Frankly, I don't understand how you can be so sure of this.

I think three equal possibilities exist:
They are generally more mentally constrained than us, or they are generally equally constrained, or they are generally more constrained. I'm not sure how any of those behavioral models would be inherently more likely for a race with the ability for interstellar travel.

That's like the Aztecs thinking that the Spaniards were superior beings because of their ships, horses, and body armor. The Spaniards were not mentally superior -- only technologically superior.

I googled Dushanbe and UFO and found this.. he might know about this..

The scenario would have been virtually unthinkable just a few years early. Soon after the iron curtain fell, a Boeing 747 with a crew of three American pilots flying for an airline company from a minor Central Asian republic found themselves on a routine flight inside the airspace of our former adversary, the late Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR). Moreover, the chief pilot for Tajik Air reported to the U.S. Embassy at Dushanbe, capital of the new and troubled independent nation of Tajikistan, that he and his crew had just observed a UFO during a recent flight. The Captain believed “the object was extraterrestrial and under intelligent control.” A message titled, SUBJECT: tajik air pilots report unidentified flying objects, was then sent from the Embassy in Dushanbe to the State Department in Washington, the U.S. Embassy in Moscow and those in other regional countries within the so-called Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS), as well as the CIA and Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA).

The incident is real and occurred on January 27, 1994. In fact, there is nothing too unusual about this report. Although the geopolitical situation in the region has changed significantly since the end of the Cold War, the State Department and other agencies like the CIA and the Foreign Broadcast Information Service (FBIS) were collecting similar UFO reports many years ago. The FBIS has continued to produce excellent digests of ufological information extracted from the Russian press (together with many other political, military and technological issues) in their Foreign Press Notes, as we shall see later on in this report. Most UFO sighting reports seem to be processed by the State by the Bureau on Oceanic, Environmental and Scientific Affairs (OES). Let’s see then the contents of this “Unclassified” January message from Dushanbe written by a U.S. Embassy official named Escudero:

Tajik air chief pilot, amcit [American citizen] Ed Rhodes, and his two American pilot colleagues reported January 29 that, on January 27, they had encountered a UFO while flying at 41,000 feet in their Boeing 747 at lat. 45 north and long. 55 east, over Kazakhstan.” If you look at a map, that would put it slightly east of the Caspian Sea and west of the Aral Sea, near the border between Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan. “They first encountered the object as a bright light of enormous intensity,” continues the message, “approaching them from over the horizon to the east at a great rate of speed and at a much higher altitude than their own. They watched the object for some forty minutes as it maneuvered in circles, corkscrews and made 90-degree turns at rapid rates of speed and under very high g’s. Captain Rhodes took several photos with a pocket Olympus camera and will send copies to the embassy and the Tajikistan desk in the department, if they come out. After some time, the object adopted a horizontal high-speed course and disappeared over the horizon.

The message provides additional details about the sighting by Captain Rhodes, his co-pilot and flight engineer, whose names are not indicated. “As it was dark when the object was observed, the crew were unable to discern its shape,” the message goes on. “They described the light it emitted as having a ‘bow wave’ and as resembling a high-speed photo of a bullet in flight, in which a very small object gives off a much larger trailing wave of heat/light. Some forty-five minutes after the initial sighting, as the sun was rising, the aircraft flew under the contrails which the object had left behind. The plane was making over 500 knots. Rhodes estimated the altitude of the contrails at approximately 100,000 feet, noting that there is too little air/moisture at that extreme altitude to enable the creation of contrails by the propulsion mechanism of ordinary aircraft which might be able to reach that height. The paths of the contrails reflected the maneuvers of the object, i.e., circles, corkscrews, etc.

Escudero added that, “to our suggestion that the object might have been a meteor entering and skipping off the earth’s atmosphere, Rhodes and his crew were adamant that they had seen thousands of ‘falling stars’ and other space junk entering the atmosphere in their years of flying passenger aircraft for PanAm. This, they insisted, was nothing like a meteor.” But the conclusion of the American-operated Tajik Air crew was quite startling. “On the basis of its speed and maneuverability,” reported the message, “Rhodes expressed the opinion, which his crew seemed to support, that the object was extraterrestrial and under intelligent control.“ Escudero finally commented that “we have no opinion and report the above for what it may be worth.

Originally posted by nosmokinggun
I googled Dushanbe and UFO and found this.. he might know about this...

If Mahmadsaid Ubaidulloev is someone who has always been personally interested in the belief that life exists elsewhere in the universe (like a lot of people are), then he may have heard about this UFO incident, since it is associated with his own country. However, Mayor Ubaidulloev may believe in intelligent life elsewhere, but I'm not sure about his beliefs in the idea that aliens are visiting the Earth, so there is a chance he isn't interested in UFOs and not really heard of or remembers this report.

One thing about the report, though. I can understand why Captain Rhodes may have believed that the object was under intelligent control (based on what he reported about the way it was flying). However, what evidence did he have to come to the conclusion that it was extraterrestrial?

reply to post by nosmokinggun




would be grateful for teh links to this info . thanks.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


I don't think we can make any assumptions about the Mayor's beliefs unless he spoke about them. This doesn't look like it will happen unless we can find some old article where he mentioned thse beliefs.

This is another reason why this doesn't really fit. Usually when we have a guy like this there is articles somewhere mentioning he believes in ET life. Why is the only record of this in a diplomatic cable? People in power would not entertain conversation like this out of fear it might damage their prospects of greater power. Why did he feel comfortable mentioning it and why did the cable not dismiss it.

Originally posted by JohnySeagull
...People in power would not entertain conversation like this out of fear it might damage their prospects of greater power. Why did he feel comfortable mentioning it and why did the cable not dismiss it.

I'm not sure how the belief that intelligent life exists elsewhere would be damaging.

Most people who are educated enough to know the size and scope of the universe also believe that life exists elsewhere -- it's a very common belief. Many well-respected people openly hold this belief. Most scientist do, such as Stephen Hawking. Many politicians do/did, such as Ronald Reagan. Polls have been conducted that shows most average people believe that intelligent life exists elsewhere. I'm one of those average people who believes this.

In fact, it would be strange NOT to believe that life exists on other planets if you simply understand the size of the universe. A person who says he believes that our little spec called Earth is the only place life exists in the entire vast universe would be seen by many to be either uneducated or a crackpot.

Can someone please answer this question:

Let's assume that there are aliens/intelligent life on other planets and that certain government officials are aware of this and have significant irrefutable evidence. Based on this assumption, and knowing the great lengths that our governments sometimes go through to cover things up, is it plausible for us to even expect some kind of "secret" alien Wikileak cable? I would think through the Freedom of Information Act, wikileaks, and various other outlets, something of this magnitude would simply be withheld from production by those in the know and there will be 0% chance of us ever finding any significant documentation until and unless the government decides to disclose the "real deal" to us. Until then, false flag documents are going to be disclosed to us as "declassified top secret material", but will not contain the true story.

Originally posted by metaldemon2000
I think this individual just threw that in because it was his own belief system.

Something any of us on ATS would do if given the chance.

Maybe, but the best minds also understand that there is no possibility theoretically or with probability that ET does not exist and in fact, that ET does exist goes much further than what they talk about here.

www.nsa.gov...

Drakes Forumula even if taken to a very conservative estimate in the endless systems of space, and considering that there are suns billions of years older than ours, even if a tiny percentage of this conervative estimate did not kill each other and survived developing technology past warring, so they pulled ahead of the game. There were still be COUNTLESS species that did this, BILLIONS of years ahead of us in technology. Rock Solid Stats.

What they havn't discussed is that if there are civilizations billions of years ahead of us in technology, this means nothing short of, every single comet, and meteor being a possible craft and the advanced understanding of Quantum Physics, No Time and infinity means that something 100 feet on the outside has infinite space within and can house a world or a galaxy sized innner space.

That billions of years ahead means instantaneous travel, a heavily populated universe with every planet and moon used by civilizations, on many different space-times and densities.

That many of them would avoid detection. That we probably have many more planets in our solar system than we can see.

That no life evolves naturally on any planet anymore. All life is projects.

That would just be pure logic.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by JohnySeagull
...People in power would not entertain conversation like this out of fear it might damage their prospects of greater power. Why did he feel comfortable mentioning it and why did the cable not dismiss it.

I'm not sure how the belief that intelligent life exists elsewhere would be damaging.

Most people who are educated enough to know the size and scope of the universe also believe that life exists elsewhere -- it's a very common belief. Many well-respected people openly hold this belief. Most scientist do, such as Stephen Hawking. Many politicians do/did, such as Ronald Reagan. Polls have been conducted that shows most average people believe that intelligent life exists elsewhere. I'm one of those average people who believes this.

In fact, it would be strange NOT to believe that life exists on other planets if you simply understand the size of the universe. A person who says he believes that our little spec called Earth is the only place life exists in the entire vast universe would be seen by many to be either uneducated or a crackpot.

i really dont think that your beliefs here are correct. you may get this impression because of what you read and view. i am quite certain that a mjority of people think that there is life outside of planet earth.

'polls show most 'average' people believe intelligent life exists elsewhere.' really? what polls? people are too wrapped up in their own lives to give a sh1t about alien life. many will joke and briefly entertain a coonversation about but try and have a serious conversation and you will find people looking at you funny. Most people who take religion seriously will not entertain talk of alien life. ANd believe it or not people who take religion seriously is a bloody big number on this planet

reply to post by JohnySeagull


I have tried to post the link but it keeps saying nolink in the w w w..

here it is if you fill in the blanks you will get to the report..

w w w . o p e n m i n d s . t v /airplane-ufo-ussr-08181/

cheers

reply to post by JohnySeagull

'polls show most 'average' people believe intelligent life exists elsewhere.' really? what polls? people are too wrapped up in their own lives to give a sh1t about alien life. many will joke and briefly entertain a coonversation about but try and have a serious conversation and you will find people looking at you funny. Most people who take religion seriously will not entertain talk of alien life. ANd believe it or not people who take religion seriously is a bloody big number on this planet

I really agree with your above comments.. if you said you believed in an all mighty being that created the earth in 7 days.. you have faith.. tell people you believe in aliens from other planets and you are labelled a nut.. even mocked.. in reality which is more likely.. im sure its that alien life exists on other planets.. lets face it we are not scratching the surface with science, we are a young civilisation and we still have lots to learn.. but where do we get this synacism from is it the governments and the media.. whats the agenda..? are they hiding something.. or are they just fueling the paranoia and the propoganda machine.. why is it we always get these tit bits of information the odd leaked cable, the odd expert that speaks out.. I really have no clue for sure either way but all i have is my faith in the fact i believe there is life outside our planet.. if that makes me a nut so be it..

Originally posted by JohnySeagull

i am quite certain that a mjority of people think that there is life outside of planet earth.

sorry, thats what i get for rushing. should have 'majority of people don't ' think that there is life outside of planet earth' in the above sentence.

The way I read it, the man was probably not speaking about "belief systems" nor about verified scientific knowledge.
My guess is that he was thinking about the common hypothesis, as put forth by Drakes Equation, that there is a very high probability of life elsewhere in the universe. Especially with more and more planets with environments that would be capable of sustaining life discovered (one of the variables in the equation) much of the public have taken the habit of thinking that science now knows that it is more probable there is life on other planets, than not.

I would guess he is included in that assumption, and was refering to that. His suggested point probably being- we need (YOU, Americans need?) to put more of your focus on the conditions of life on this planet , and put aside the space exploration for now (and in a very subtle way, suggesting the Americans have been too consumed with conquering what is outside of themselves instead of tending to what is happening inside- in their country, on their planet).

Diplomacy is a subtle game and takes a high sensitivity to play and to understand.

The more I read about this region and the mayor and who he mixes with I am wondering was he having a sly dig about seeing secret military aircraft?

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
reply to post by metaldemon2000

 

I would imagine if there are space faring races they would prohibit an aggressive civilization from roaming around. I certainly would. And, yes, we would be an absolute disaster in space. If a country colonized the moon for instance, they would claim property rights to it and lock the market importing ores and metals back to earth. Eventually people would go to war with that country to gain access to the minerals. Silly people. We need a better system.

Simple, every-other nation on the Planet joins the Union. And the USA becomes the USE. We already have a good, working Constitution. A Constitution that is designed by nature to be voluntarily expansive.

Well, i read the title of this thread, and when i actually read the OP, i was a little disapointed. Saying what he said, does not confirm anything. I believe there is life on other planets. Is that 100% proof that this is the case? No, it is not. This cable proves nothing at all