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Grandpa accused of forcing boys on brutal Grand Canyon hikes

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posted on Sep, 1 2011 @ 11:05 PM
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Christopher A. Carlson, of Indianapolis, was charged with child abuse. Rangers and passers-by noted the alleged abuse by Carlson against the boys, ages 12, 9 and 8, according to a court documents.




Carlson took the children on the latest hike on Aug. 28. Park Service Special Agent Chris Smith testified Thursday that Carlson told authorities that the boys had been overweight and he thought the hike would get them into shape.




The boys are in the custody of the state. Police didn't place the boys with their mother because the best interests of the boys are "not her primary concern," WTHR reported.


Wow I've heard of tough love but this is taking it way too far. The mother seems quite unconcerned with the situation which is even worse for the kids. I dont understand why some people are so cruel.

Grandpa from hell story




posted on Sep, 1 2011 @ 11:11 PM
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Hah!

I think that's funny. I don't really see anything REALLY wrong with that.
Loving grandpa was concerned about his fat grandchildren.

Grandpa was probably raised by the military...



posted on Sep, 1 2011 @ 11:14 PM
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That mugshot in the article, is that supposed to be the grandfather?
He looks - young...



posted on Sep, 1 2011 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by JROCK2527
 


Honestly I think it would be good for a great many people worldwide to take a few good, long hikes. Honestly there is nothing wrong with working out, those kids are young and can take it. It wont hurt them.

Tough love? Maybe but the benefits are worth it in the long run.

-Lightrule



posted on Sep, 1 2011 @ 11:18 PM
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yeah kids sue you for anything nowadays.

discipline is dying, and the parents were maybe a bad example.



posted on Sep, 1 2011 @ 11:18 PM
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reply to post by JROCK2527
 


I understand trying to get your overweight grandkids to eat less and exercise, but that guy is taking it too far. That is child abuse and he should be prosecuted.



posted on Sep, 1 2011 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by LadySkadi
 


I thought so too---Maybe 35? And his daughter is 28??



posted on Sep, 1 2011 @ 11:33 PM
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I don't understand why some of you are defending this man. Did you read the article?

He made them run in 108 degree weather but denied them food and water, or a chance to cool down. That is incredibly dangerous, and it's lucky the worst that happened was dehydration, and not heat stroke.
Also...
"The boys told investigators that they had been hit, pushed, choked, pinched, squeezed and whipped, and had vomited several times when Carlson forced their fingers down their throats."

Sorry, but if you really care about someone, you don't endanger their health or life like that. There are far safer ways to lose weight and become more healthy.



posted on Sep, 1 2011 @ 11:34 PM
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I believe this guy went pretty far over the line when serious sunburns, hiking up and down on blistered feet and apparently deciding they didn't need as much water as they would have liked became part of it. Child Abuse is one heck of a serious charge and long road of misery ahead of this guy for what I'd say comes down to really bad judgement though.

Unless there is A LOT more to the story than what this shows, it sounds like the kids are being victimized as much by the state as the overzealous Grandfather.



posted on Sep, 1 2011 @ 11:41 PM
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Yep

Send in the state.

They will fix all of your family problems


Dad should have kicked his as$..........Somebody anyways.



posted on Sep, 1 2011 @ 11:47 PM
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reply to post by Astrithr
 


I honestly believe that the MSM in this case that MSNBC article are embellishing some facts here.

A lot of the horrible things they say he did start with "They boys said" not that I don't believe they were in some pain and discomfort (Welcome to working out IMO). But I also know how "authorities" are trained to ask loaded questions. Any adult with a half a brain can ask young children questions designed to get the answer they want.

Its no secret really that any government agency that is tasked with any sort of "legal power" is always ready to unleash it.

I think CPS is corrupt and needs more cases to get a bigger budget and this is just another one of those. They wouldn't even release the kids to the mother? Come on "not her primary concern"? Smells fishy.

In the end I think this is totally a case of the MSM needing an emotional story to keep people distracted and angry about something, government agencies looking for excuses to exist, and to the least extent a grandpa taking this a bit to far.

-Lightrule



posted on Sep, 1 2011 @ 11:51 PM
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sounds like maybe somebody from the survival forums took the grandkids for little hike..
lol just haveing fun



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by LadySkadi
That mugshot in the article, is that supposed to be the grandfather?
He looks - young...


I'm a grandfather, and I'm a stunningly youthful, devastatingly handsome man.


j/k


Anyway, on topic, I can see how this can be misconstrued by the public at large. In recent years, when it seems like there is a pedo lurking behind every trash can, people get protective of kids, and rightfully so; but there is also a tendency to overdo it and lay blame where it doesn't really belong.

I don't know the full facts of this case, and neither does anyone else, so I don't think we should get out the pitchforks and torches just yet. Allow me to present this scenario:

There is a mother, to whom police refused to give the children because she "doesn't have their best interests at heart." Something like this doesn't happen overnight, there must have been a good reason (and documented history) for the cops to make this decision. We have three overweight children who, lacking any proper parenting, are probably discipline problems. We have a reasonably young grandfather who is apparently not hurting for cash (he's from Indianapolis, and took the kids to the Grand Canyon on the way to Disneyland - after having already been to Central America and Jamaica this summer) who appears to be driving these boys too hard. But is he really?

From the article, the only injuries the boys had were blisters on their feet. This is to be expected when taking an 18 mile hike. Believe me, getting a child to push himself to finish what he has started, especially when the child has to push through pain, isn't an easy task. Kids today are soft, spoiled by XBox and instant Kraft Mac & Cheese, and if they aren't pushed and encouraged then they will become couch potatoes. I know, I deal with this daily.

But getting back to the alleged abuse for a moment, can someone please tell me what alternative there is to walking on blisters when you're in the middle of an 18 mile hike? Surely nobody expects them to be choppered out? No, you deal with it when you're done hiking. The park ranger said he saw the grandfather hitting one of the boys with a "rolled-up T-shirt." I would hardly call that abuse. Now if the grandfather had used a branch, or a hiking boot to strike the boy, well that's different. But using a soft T-shirt to whack a complaining kid upside the head just to get his attention doesn't rise to the level of "abuse" in my book. There is no way that could hurt, or even sting, the child.

We've all seen or read about horror stories where Child Protective Services takes children out of a home due to what later turn out to be unfounded allegations. Children have even been known to call CPS themselves to file a charge of abuse against a parent who only spanked the child in what reasonable people would call an appropriate manner. I would not exclude this as a possibility when one of the children told a passing hiker to "call the emergency." I can totally envision an ornery kid, who has blisters on his feet and probably didn't want to be there in the first place, making up stories in order to get out of the hike.

Lacking further evidence, at this point I can only say that the grandfather is guilty of poor judgment. In the first place, you don't start an overweight kid off on an 18 mile hike; that's a bit much even for a healthy adult. Secondly, part of your gear has to include dry socks, underwear, first-aid supplies to treat any blisters, enough food to last the hike, and PLENTY of water (especially considering the temperature.) Not being properly supplied for a hike is stupid, but is not abusive.

For the moment, I'm going to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. He may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but I don't think he acted with malice; I think he was truly trying to take these boys out of an unhealthy environment and turn their lives around. On the other hand, if he was being mean to the kids and it is proven, I'd be the first in line to kick his ass and take him on a little forced march of his own.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

ETA: Gramps should look into getting the boys into a Scout Troop.
edit on 9/2/2011 by OldCorp because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:35 AM
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I agree with the fact that overweight kids need to have some kind of regiment of physical training so that they don’t end up at 400+ pounds. What I don’t agree with is the method the grandfather used. He should have started them out slow. Not send them on an immediate 18 mile hike with no supplies. I mean any layman on the street should be smart enough to know that when you are going to be doing anything strenuous in the sun you need plenty of water. The blisters are explainable due to the long hike without dry socks not too sure though about making them go commando that is a bit odd? Also when the children began to show signs of fatigue the grandfather should have taken heed and turned back or at least had something on hand to ease the fatigue. But who knows? Guess we will just have to wait till the court case to see what comes out.



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