Originally posted by taibunsuu


"I'm wondering lately why circumcision is not properly called Male Genital Mutilation, whereas female circumcision is known as such. Circumcision for males is culturally accepted in the West, yet when it happens to females it's considered a horrid tragedy perpetuated by irrational, superstitious cultures."

Interesting topic, particularly here in South Africa. None of our 9 indigenous tribes performs female circumcision, although we have a lot of migrants coming in from the north-west of Africa, where it is custom. We have a strong feminist movement these days and it is certainly regarded as unacceptable. What is interesting is male circumcision. The Xhosa people send their boys for initiation around puberty where they are circumcized. Every year we have cases of genital mutilation (resulting in infection and penile amputation) and since the knife is sometimes not cleaned between a number of boys, HIV infection. The Zulu people gave up circumcision under king Shaka in the 19th century. Legend has it that he saw a friend die from the parctise, and the healing process took too long to maintain the Zulu regiments. Nowadays we get a lot of info from the West that provides evidence for circumcision leading to a reduced HIV-risk for men. Although circumcision does not mean cut men are totally "safe", for straight men the risk is very reduced. Young males are encouraged to go to the clinic for the snip, but old traditions die hard, and here in the Cape men are sometimes abducted for forced initiations. Apparently in the past it was safer, and the traditional surgeons were very experienced, but nowadays it is done for financial reward, and clinic circumcision is not given the same status as traditional initiation. It is a huge topic here, particularly since male circumcision now has the benefit of Western medicine's thought in HIV reduction. But I agree, it is male mutilation and if this was done to women, there would be a huge international protest.

Originally posted by Byrd
Now... let's be fair. Let's compare the "mutilations," shall we?

male:
done in hospitals
sterile instruments
by doctors or rabbis with doctor assist
takes only foreskin


female:
not done in hospitals
usually done with a piece of broken glass (really!)
done by various people with no medical training
takes foreskin, clitoris, labia (equivalent of slicing off the penis itself.)

Originally posted by BaronVonGodzilla

Originally posted by Byrd
Now... let's be fair. Let's compare the "mutilations," shall we?

male:
done in hospitals
sterile instruments
by doctors or rabbis with doctor assist
takes only foreskin


female:
not done in hospitals
usually done with a piece of broken glass (really!)
done by various people with no medical training
takes foreskin, clitoris, labia (equivalent of slicing off the penis itself.)

Not necessarily outside the Western world! In Xhosa initiation boys are taken into the bush, where a knife (seen footage of a pocket knife used) is sharpened on a rock. The boys sit naked with their legs apart, and the traditional "surgeon" pulls the foreskin of each boy and cuts it off. To show pain is a disgrace, so the boys may not flinch. Thousands of boys do this, even around urban areas, every year. These days boys as young as 6-9 are taken. Afterwards they live, and supposedly heal for a period of seclusion (especially from females) under the beatings of their "surgeon", and some freeze to death, being naked in icy nights. They may not drink water for a period, and some get dehydration. Needlessly to say, many boys and young men die each year or have their penises completely amputated to treat infection. The mutilated penis is wrapped in leaves and often drags in the sand. Read up on Xhosa initiations (and many other tribes) and tell me again that in Africa male circumcision is done safely in hospitals! Amongst the Xhosa an uncircumcised man is not considered or spoken to as a "man", no matter how old, he will always be a "boy". Sometimes those cut in clinics are abducted and cut again in the bush, it really is horrendous from outside perspectives.
PS. Many activists and ethnologists actually argue that female circumcisions are a kind of inflated "revenge" in circumcized patriarchy, where men sublimate their own mutilation on women. However, the Xhosa don't practise female circumcision, but men enjoy a superior status to women after initiation. In some regions of northern Africa and the Middle-East men may have their entire groin skinned during "circumcision".