A Dire Metaphysical Warning to all Atheists!

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Observor

 

Not once did I ever suggest that another person's projection can apply to you or your own, that was your assumption.

If you had stated clearly who and what all you think an individual's projections impact their post-mortem reality and why, others don't have to make any assumption regarding that.

Are you now saying that an individual's projections of a post-mortem reality impact only that person and no one and nothing else?

If so, it doesn't follow from QM, which you were attempting to derive it from. In QM, the Copenhagen interpretation of it, the impact of consciousness is on the nature of reality around it and hence would necessarily include others, not on itself. Or perhaps, you were derviving nothing from QM but just throwing the word 'Quantum' around to sound profound and scientific?

All I was alluding to was the notion that under certain circumstances, when faced with reality as it is, that our ignorance, or I should say willful ignorance, could form a self reinforcing and sustaining delusion capable of placing us at odds or at enmity with the truth and the reality as it is, and therefore as it remains. Such projections about hell for unbelievers is just that type of projection, which is why I would imagine that a lot of hell-focused people (whether for self or others) report hellish NDE experiences..

I am not particularly interested in your projections or explanations, unless they can be backed up with something outside your imagination/personal experience as you were claiming to do so far.

No one has the power to place another person in hell, we alone have that power according to our freedom to choose, and to be willing, and open-minded enough, to be shown the truth where we are/were in error, and on the basis that there is nothing hidden which will not be brought to light. A lie cannot sustain itself indefinitely, the truth finds it out.

Wow! I am impressed! I know plenty of people who are sure I am going to hell because I don't accept their God, book and religion. What is the nature of Quantum reality that denies them the power to send me to hell, but ends my existence if I believed death is the end of consciousness as well?

I regret that the topic of hell ever came up in this thread.

I don't. I brought it in specifically the prove the OP is meaningless rubbish.

The point about such a condition never being eternal is based on the idea that it's not real, not true, and is framed in and by strong delusion, where to be in hell, would be to be separated from the light of life, and from our true source, who is God AND our true self as God.

Yeah, sure, you can have your own projections what they are. Not sure what is the nature of qunatum reality that makes some projections true, but not that of some others.

Your approach is just a refined version of eternal hell fire. The old unsophisticated way used to be "You will burn in hell for eternity for not accepting my God/book/faith". The New Age way seems to be "You will cease to exist and hence miss out on all great things (there are not bad things), simply because you don't accept the possibility, without any evidence, that I am right". Yeah, sounds very "profound" and convincing.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Observor

 

Matter, or brain-mind as an epiphenomenon of matter, cannot actualize a possibility.

Nor does anyone say it can. If you believe the Copenhagen interpretation of QM, consciousness is independent of matter and does not arise from it. However it has no primacy over matter. The possibilities exist independent of consciousness and it only chooses one possibility and that becomes its reality.

On the otherhand other interpretation of QM do not even need a consciousness to describe reality as all possibilities are simultaneously realised each in its own universe. Since consciousness plays no role in actualising a possibility, it could very well be an epiphenomenon of matter.

Neither interpretation is actually needed to apply QM and physicists don't care for what interpretation is correct, since neither can be verified within the realm of physics.

In any case, to follow your logic, if you are positing a possibility itself as an epiphenomeon of the consciousness (which is not an epiphenomenon of matter), how can consciousness actualise that possibility?

reply to post by NewAgeMan


When life ends...we have no clue about the other side. Death-life ends. No what and where? No one knows for sure. My point is dying a lingering painful, disease, rape, beating, accident...hurts like crazy...intensely. But then? As those who've had a near death experiences say...they one minute where dying...then nothing, Into the lght...no pain. Only bliss. This is not to say that going the OTHER way...would be something altogether different.

DYING only hurts during...and since you dont wake back up in this world...we cant get together to discuss how painful it was on the other side. We...religiously speaking... are not taught that way. Life, pain and suffering ends there. We dont get together on the other side and hurt and talk about it. "OUCH! That was really BAD!"

There's 3 things NO ONE knows
Where we come from.
Why were here.
Where we go when we leave.
The sooner one gets over DEATHFEAR the sooner ONE can start truly Living in this Reality.

PEACE!

Originally posted by KingArthur
There's 3 things NO ONE knows
Where we come from.
Why were here.
Where we go when we leave.

Evidently you don't know the answer to those questions. How do you know no one else does?

IM all ears been here awhile seen alot in my life still learnin
I have seen UFO ,Spirit, Unexplained Stuff but i always Question everything always a mystery as the NA's call it The Great Mystery maybe u find out at Graduation day Like I said all ears.. Peace

reply to post by Observor


You wrote:

["If so, it doesn't follow from QM, which you were attempting to derive it from. In QM, the Copenhagen interpretation of it, the impact of consciousness is on the nature of reality around it and hence would necessarily include others, not on itself. Or perhaps, you were derviving nothing from QM but just throwing the word 'Quantum' around to sound profound and scientific?"]

I've just jumped into this thread at this point; maybe I'll retrack it of this interesting direction continues. So for now, relating to your comment above:

RIGTH ON SPOT.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Hydroman

 

Which is why I'm warning you now, today at this point in the eternally unfolding present moment!

There's a common response to this 'what if you're wrong?' hypothesis. If I die and am surprised to find myself standing on clouds in front of a huge throne bearing Whoopi Goldberg, I'd say one thing.

"You've got some explaining to do".

Originally posted by FlyingSpaghettiMonster

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Hydroman

 

Which is why I'm warning you now, today at this point in the eternally unfolding present moment!

There's a common response to this 'what if you're wrong?' hypothesis. If I die and am surprised to find myself standing on clouds in front of a huge throne bearing Whoopi Goldberg, I'd say one thing.

"You've got some explaining to do".

There's just one thing wrong with your argumentation:

It's difficult to explain (or explain away.... according to taste) Whoopie Goldberg with fake quantum physics.

Ramen and all hail Eris and the great noodle-master

reply to post by KingArthur


Since the Absolute, from which everything arises and back into which everything goes, reintegrated, is a realm or domain of limitless possibility, and because the conscious reality we ALREADY inhabit (lol), is a byproduct of evolution as a continual process of differentiation and reintegration ie: of growth - it is probably, if not certainly, very wise to maintain a state of willingness, and open mindedness. After all there is nothing to lose, only everything, to gain.

Re: Gnosis

(1) And he said, "Whoever finds the interpretation of these sayings will not experience death."
(2) "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All."

Opening words of the "heretical" Gnostic Gospel of Thomas

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Re: Gnosis

(1) And he said, "Whoever finds the interpretation of these sayings will not experience death."
(2) "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All."

Opening words of the "heretical" Gnostic Gospel of Thomas

So what is your state? One of seeking, troubled, astonished or ruling over All?

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by KingArthur

 

Since the Absolute, from which everything arises and back into which everything goes, reintegrated, is a realm or domain of limitless possibility, and because the conscious reality we ALREADY inhabit (lol), is a byproduct of evolution as a continual process of differentiation and reintegration ie: of growth - it is probably, if not certainly, very wise to maintain a state of willingness, and open mindedness. After all there is nothing to lose, only everything, to gain.

Don't you think the carrot "After all there is nothing to lose, only everything, to gain." is a little weaker than carrot and stick "If you accept you will enjoy heaven for eternity and if not burn in hell for all of eternity"?

If the latter doesn't work with atheists, why do you think the former will?

Your approach is less off putting that the latter, but still as ineffective, because a rational mind is not looking to accomodate a declaration of something merely because it is less offending to the sensibilities. What is needed is evidence to back the declaration up, not begging to "keep an open mind" because it is a possibility that someone can conceive of.

You are really desperate that others accept the possibility that your claims be true. Wonder why? Are you so unsure of what you declare that you seek comfort in numbers and the possibility that it is not true, which you are constantly reminded of by the presence of atheists around, gives you nightmares?

ETA: By the way keeping an open mind does not meaning accepting every claim as being possibly true. It means not coming to a conclusion immediately because more evidence is likely to come by to help make a decision. What evidence of your possibility are you expecting a sceptic to come by?

Originally posted by randomname
you can't convince an atheist about anything. their minds are stone. they just find life easier when they deny Gods existence because the devil leaves them alone when they do.

Funny, atheists say much the same thing about fundamentalist religious people. I've known religious folk and had them as friends in my life - but most have been thinking people ready to at least discuss these subjects. The most extreme and bigoted voices in religious circles are sadly often the loudest.

Originally posted by KingArthur
There's 3 things NO ONE knows
Where we come from.
Why were here.
Where we go when we leave.
The sooner one gets over DEATHFEAR the sooner ONE can start truly Living in this Reality.

PEACE!

Sorry but yes, I do know the answers to that. It is all information available in the racial unconscious of humanity, which I am able to access after a shaman journey 10+ years ago.

reply to post by Observor


Re: Nothing to lose - was intended as a pun, within the context of the previous statement. There is nothing that is not, only everything already always and so there is ONLY everything to gain.

You want to stick with the label you've given yourself fine, but how far are you prepared to go with that..?

One thing is certain, even if there is a creating entity that put the universe into existence, it was NOT the crazed being depicted in the Bible, Koran, or Torah. The Universe is too big for such a petty, angry, and
virtually useless being. The religious wackos need to toss out their holy books and start over.

Try buying a telescope.

www.jordanmaxwell.com...

Originally posted by DragonriderGal

Originally posted by KingArthur
There's 3 things NO ONE knows
Where we come from.
Why were here.
Where we go when we leave.
The sooner one gets over DEATHFEAR the sooner ONE can start truly Living in this Reality.

PEACE!

Sorry but yes, I do know the answers to that. It is all information available in the racial unconscious of humanity, which I am able to access after a shaman journey 10+ years ago.

Personal experiences are just that - - - they are personal experiences.

They are not fact.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by DragonriderGal

Originally posted by KingArthur
There's 3 things NO ONE knows
Where we come from.
Why were here.
Where we go when we leave.
The sooner one gets over DEATHFEAR the sooner ONE can start truly Living in this Reality.

PEACE!

Sorry but yes, I do know the answers to that. It is all information available in the racial unconscious of humanity, which I am able to access after a shaman journey 10+ years ago.

Personal experiences are just that - - - they are personal experiences.

They are not fact.

I know what I "know". But where did I say it was 'fact'?

Nothing is fact. EVERYTHING we discuss or consider or even run thru our brains without much thought has been taken into our brains and interpreted by us.. therefore it becomes our 'opinion' of that information no matter what it is about and NEVER a fact after that point.

So, I know what I "know". It is my interpretation and opinion of what I see. And what I see in there, in my opinion, is all the memories of the human race and any other alien who has died and ended up human. So such easy questions as where we come from, why we are here, and where we go afterwards is information readily available there.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Observor

 

Re: Nothing to lose - was intended as a pun, within the context of the previous statement. There is nothing that is not, only everything already always and so there is ONLY everything to gain.

But that gain is possible only if they accept your viewpoint . Sounds very convincing

You want to stick with the label you've given yourself fine, but how far are you prepared to go with that..?

I have given myself no labels.