I can't get a council house and its driving me mad!

Originally posted by sunshinesmile
reply to post by Elvis Hendrix

 

Sorry to break it to you but Australia is just as full of rapidly breeding immigrants as any other civilised/ westernized/ developed country. The latest variety is male Afghani refugees that arrive by boat, having travelled though many other countries where they could have sought asylum. But no, they want to come and live with us infidels not with their muslim brothers in any one of the countries they have passed through. Why do you think that is?

They fill our government housing, welfare offices and public schools, get our public swimming pools to close so muslim women can swim privately without evil white men looking on, protest singing the national anthem at school, push to bring in sharia law, treat our laws with contempt and breed like ferals. Sound familiar?

Better off in Australia? Maybe, but not for long. We should never have cancelled the White Australia Policy. Having said that, I'm not completely against welcoming people from other lands, but that only works when you have a strong government that won't let itself be pushed around by minorities self-interests.

Good luck to you.

Trouble with the white Australian policy is that native Australians weren't white - were they?

Originally posted by SecretFace
reply to post by asturel13

 

That's a bit off target there. The Middle Class is slowly being eroded but it exists. It's typically home owners with household income of typically of 40k-100K are considered Middle Class. The Middle Class is the backbone to the proseprity of a nation, which is why China wants to build a Middle Class. The people you refer to as millionaires are the Upper Class or High Class. Working Class is a bit of a redundant term now, as it got sucked up by the lower class and many moved in to the Middle Class, but I guess it tends to be people earning but in rented property, mostly private, but could also be state. Lower Class are the people who are better off more so than everyone else from simply existing in a state funded property sitting on their backsides pushing out babies every year and getting the ponse money for it! I refuse to call them working class, these people are not working class!

Not at all mate, the "upper class" dont work for their money at all they almost entirely off their inherited wealth and in the past they are called the aristocracy. People with an income of 40-100K might consider themselves middle class but according to the actual scale of social stratification as outlined by Durkheim and Weber, they are not. You simply cannot be upper class if you work and earn your wealth. Alan Sugar is Middle class (some may argue working class based upon his upbringing alone) despite his multi-million business ventures. University graduated professionals who earn the very top money are the middle classes, usually medical and legal professionals, architects etc etc.

Again, its not about opinions, its not open for debate even because the scale of social stratification has already been set in stone. You cant change it to suit your own aspirations/delusions of class mobility. The fact that you call what are essentially scientific facts "a bit off target" indicates the knee jerk reaction of someone who likes to think of themselves as middle class and doesn't like any suggestion that they are only working class, be it upper/lower, skilled/unskilled. What is the point of even studying the class system, if the average person in the UK these days merely invents their own version of it, tailor made to their own aspirations. I have a friend who is an electrician for the local council who earns £28k a year who also believes he is "middle class".

Anyways, we are in danger of veeering off topic here, I was merely pointing out to that American chappy the fundemental difference between the class system used in Europe and the ones that America has created for itself.

Originally posted by jaxjax
Cripes Suspira how come i pay £114 a month council tax for a 2 bed
????

No idea...Suppose it depends on the Band of the house. But then they've probably cocked this years bill right up and i'll have to give them a stupid lump sum over Christmas and the New Year when we can least afford it. It usually happens. I've had 4 different council tax bills for 4 different amounts already this year.

Every week I go in to pay the rent I go ask someone just to make sure what I'm supposed to pay in Council tax, still, they seem vague at the best of times.

reply to post by something wicked


And the past is not the present, is it? We can certainly learn from it, like how indiginous people always seem to get trampled on, but don't think that it's a case of well an eye for an eye, because making the world of today blind for the world of yesterday's perceived crime is about as constructive as hanging a grandson for his grand father's crime. We need to look at here and now and how best each country can look after it's own people. This whole idea of dropping borders, swamping nations and dilluting each country's identity and culture is nothing but counter to Human progression and if anything history has taught us one thing on the subject, war is inevitable from such a clash of negative factors.

reply to post by asturel13


Scientific? What's Scientific about it? There is no official definition to Middle Class, just a general opinion.

You've taken a definition, by who? Out of all the opinions and researched articles I've read regarding the present class system in the UK, I've never come across that definition, it sounds more like Victorian England. Upper Class do tend to be that of inherited wealth and aristocratic, but what you're saying is that the Middle Class is strictly reserved for the very wealthy who might have a a million pound house and a million pound annual income, this is not right at all.
Culturally, the term may have more to do with a good education, living as a home owner in a suburb or rural area and the general wealthy background of a person. Middle Class is just as much about values as it is about wealth and most do tend to be linked. The Middle has always been and is always the middle ground between the general working population and the upper class. Although this is generally highly skilled workers, managment and professionals, it is very much linked to property ownership, but it all goes hand in hand. To say that someone or a couple with an income of a 100k is just upper working is unbelieveable! Middle England is exactly that, the upper tier might be a millionaire and lower tier might be your boss, but it's generally those who are living above the average earnings bracket, for men I think it's 30k for women just over 20k, how far it extends is anyone's game, but I'm sure multi millionaires don't consider themselves Middle Class and as there is no official definition just a widely regarded opinion, I can't see no reason why they would.

Your version sounds more like Communist Russia, where basically everyone who worked was working class, pretty much because they were all paid the same wage!

Originally posted by jaxjax
Cripes Suspira how come i pay £114 a month council tax for a 2 bed
????

Because you have to pay for Johnny Foreigners 4 bed.

The only way (imho) brits will ever recover is for immigrants that weern't born here to be sent packing "anywhere" and for a complete abolishment of PAYE income tax.

We can't help other people out if we got no money ourselves ! For Christ sake even the Big Issue spots have been taken over by immigrants!

Here’s the thing… Europeans – Brits included – are on a slope to oblivion due to low birth rates. Procreation is so low that we’re below the replacement rate and will disappear if this continues long enough. The mainstream makes this point regularly, yet always insinuates that we’re not having children because we’re too self-centred. THIS IS UNTRUE! The reason we’re not having children, as I’ve argued whenever possible, is that the indigenous white people of Britain (and much of Europe) lack hope for their future, and as a result – consciously or subconsciously – avoid having children. See, to us, the future looks bleak whereas to immigrants – particularly Third World – a future in Britain, as bleak as it is, is a major step up. Particularly when, as all seem to testify, immigrants are put at the front of every queue.

Not to join in with the moaning, but my fiancé and I have been together for 7 years and have wanted children for a few. However, we’re being discriminated against for being in a committed relationship – my fiancé can’t get ANY benefits because I work 40 hours a week, despite generations of her family paying into the welfare pot. She can’t find work because she has Fibromyalgia and the only available jobs require too much lifting and standing. They won’t give her disability benefit because the government doesn’t recognize Fibromyalgia as a legitimate affliction. We’re unfortunate enough to have been born and raised in South-East England where minimum rent for us equates to half my earnings. After bills, food, car costs and petrol my expendable money is ZERO. In short – we can’t afford to raise a kid and even if we did just about stretch we’d NEVER have a penny to put towards a deposit on our own house.

Still – I do believe that we have the opportunity to dig ourselves out of this hole, though it is of course easier for some than others.

Point is: our grandparents fought wars and paid taxes so that their descendents could live happy and secure. That’s human nature – to invest in our children’s future. But certain malevolent forces within government and banking have conspired to steal that nest egg. The system doesn’t help those who deserve to be helped – unless you think newly-arrived immigrants and the indigenous dregs are more deserving of welfare than the people who actually paid into it.

It’s quite obviously Cultural Marxism. Make welfare and aid illogical – penalize those with integrity – punish commitment – undermine national sovereignty and identity – steal wealth – lower indigenous birthrates. It’s all part of an agenda to dismantle traditional, free society.

reply to post by SecretFace


Nope its the class sytem as defined by Economists and sociologists of the modern age and as taught in modern day universities. Its nothing, get this, NOTHING like communism, I never said the woking classes get paid the same wage and I never said you had to have a million pound house in order to be middle class. I rather suggest that your nose is out of joint because, like many, you falsely believe yourself to be "middle class" when you are nothing of the sort, hence the untoward hostility. The fact that you turned what I said into communism merely serves to indicate how you were so full of rage at the realization that you are not Middle class that you completely re-invented what I said to suit your own argument, much in the same way that you want to re-invent the class to system to suit yourself and your your own aspirations of class mobility.

Whats so wrong about being working class anyway? You seem to be at pains to distance yourself from the term! I love being from a working class background and am not ashamed of who I am nor do I determine my staus in life according to some class system or percieved social hierarchy.

Just for clarification, in the contemporary UK the "middle classes" are individuals who went to university and subsequently followed a career in medicine, law etc Middle class jobs being things like Architects, Solicitors, Barristers, Accountants, GPs, Surgeons, Business executives etc etc.

There is nothing even remotely victorian or communist about this (how can it be both when they are so radically different?).

No offence intended here, but my opinion is derived through both recent and not so recent studies of the class sytem at university in subjects such as Economics, Political Science and Sociology. Your opinion is based on the fact that you like to think of yourself as middle-class and anyone who says any different is a communist idiot from the 1800's.


Anyway, OP I hope you find a solution to your problems soon mate.

U need to learn how to bend the truth!

OP,i hope you get the help you need,i really do.

But in saying that,you and your partner should of thought about all this before you decided to have a child.

I understand people do make bad decisions,it happens.

With the way the system works and how screwed up it us,im not surprised your finding it hard to get a place to live.

Next time i suggest you think about yours actions before you do them,not after.

Originally posted by SecretFace
reply to post by something wicked

 

And the past is not the present, is it? We can certainly learn from it, like how indiginous people always seem to get trampled on, but don't think that it's a case of well an eye for an eye, because making the world of today blind for the world of yesterday's perceived crime is about as constructive as hanging a grandson for his grand father's crime. We need to look at here and now and how best each country can look after it's own people. This whole idea of dropping borders, swamping nations and dilluting each country's identity and culture is nothing but counter to Human progression and if anything history has taught us one thing on the subject, war is inevitable from such a clash of negative factors.

And which point do you think goes against what I said? The white Australia law did an awful lot of harm to the indigenous population (hint, they aren't white) and don't think of it as 'in the past', it was certainly within my generation. The poster was suggesting perhaps losing it was a bad thing.

Long time ATS reader, and also long time Senior Housing Manager in the south east of England. However, subscribed on the back of this thread. Ask me anything!

Class....
Upper class does no work, independently wealthy.
Middle -Members of the "Professions" Lawyer, accountant, architect, engineer, doctor, clergyman,etc. (Generally something requiring a degree plus a period of job based training before you qualify.

Working..the rest. Just cos you earn 100k a year don't go thinking you're middle class, cos you aren't.

That's the way it was explained to me a long way back and it still holds true.

To the OP - in my view you've got to think long term. In the short term (pre baby) money will be tight, when baby comes , strangely you will have more options, you will be entitled to tax credits and child benefit - tax credits espcially will be a great help, go on the TC website and do a calculation based on your income. Pre baby save, save, save for a deposit on a rental, either go for a cheap 1 bed (babys until they start toddling don't need too much space) or you'll find for not too much more you can get a 3 bed (rent out the spare room(s)) - that'll give you a bit of 'income'. Your partner should think about going to work 6-9 months after baby born - you've said she's close to family so find out how close! you'll need childcare. Keep saving saving saving as much as you can. After a few years, and time goes quickly child can go to state nursery half days, and then full time from age 4. Hopefully, your job situation will have improved somewhat, your partner will be enjoying work and you will be feeling a little more financially secure. Resist the temptation to splurge on foreign holidays, big tvs, taking on credit, you know what I mean, and keep saving, you'll find you've got a stash for a deposit on your own home. -

15 years ago, i found myself alone with 2 babies under 3 - I made a plan as above, gave myself 5 years to get out of our 1 bed rental worked like mad, saved like mad, and 6 years later bought a 3 bed place 200 miles away that i loved and could afford. We have been very happy here, but I dread to think where I'd be if I'd waited for the council to give me a leg up. And to be honest I wouldn't have had it any other way - but the key is to think and act for the long term.

Good luck

To the op, would it not be cheaper to buy a house rather than renting a Council house?

Just a suggestion. If it is going to save on the amount off rent charged by private landlords nowadays. But I know where your coming from ,work your backside off for a measly wage, wait for years for a council house, while there are those who come into the country, whom are giving a higher priority, gain benefits etc, But yet can afford to buy big cars such as Mercedes, Bmw's,

Didn't bother to read the full 10 pages, but I think it boils down to this:

Most government programs manipulate the free market for the worse.

Taxpayers subsidizing a market inflates the value of the market until there is no savings whatsoever.

If there was no gov. housing, subsidies and assistance the price of housing would have to correct to what individuals living on real wages in the area could afford.

That is why the EU is doomed to fail. Way to much of the government needs to wipe my *ss culture over there. People need a real wage that supports a real family, not artifical (and unsustainable) support.

Same stuff we are running into over here. All the homes people couldn't afford should be forclosed and the banks should still have to pay property taxes on them which would reintroduce those house to market at the new market price...which is whatever someone can actually afford on their real wages without some exotic loan.

Banks should have failed, we could have had some new ones by now that would have filled in the void in the market.

Will all this happen eventually? I doubt it, most people would rather get a handout.

Now is a good time to realize that World Socialism penalizes the hard working people. It is unfair and unjust. And the US socialists want it full on in the States. Your testimony is proof it's nothing but bureaucratic fakery.

The nerve of some people. Working and paying taxes and then when you need help expecting that same government you've been helping to finance to give you some help when you need it. Why, you're part of the problem with everything. If it weren't for people like you, we would be living in the land of marzipan houses and whiskey lakes.

If none of you guessed, that's sarcasm. What's so wrong about what the OP is asking for here? Yeah, family planning is great and all, but sometimes it just doesn't happen that way. And some of you just want to abandon this guy for it? You should be ashamed of your selves. I would hate to see how you treat other people. If someone paid you for the entire time they were working with the promise that that money would go toward making their life better, to keeping them safe and healthy etc., and then one day they needed help from you in order to keep a roof over their family's head and food in their bellies, would you give them the old "Should have done better. Better keep paying me 40% of what you make though, or you'll be on your way to the stocks."

I'm so disappointed in society.

Op might want to look up any part ownership homes. Whereby you buy a 50% share of the house (usually a newbuild erected by a housing association). They are supposed to help people get on the property ladder. Say you buy your share for 50 grand...It's basically your house, but you HAVE to sell the house back to the association if you want to buy another property. Obviously you have to hope the house is worth more than when you bought your share to get anything out of that for your future home but it's better than nothing...

On the plus side, you don't have to worry about your neighbours being smackheads..

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


Deal with it.

Get a new job, or cease having kids.