Miami Police shoot, kill man carrying toy gun

Miami Police shoot, kill man carrying toy gun

www.msnbc.msn.com

NORTH MIAMI BEACH, Fla. — A man carrying what was later determined to be a toy rifle was shot and killed by police, authorities in North Miami Beach said.

(visit the link for the full news article)

He was mentally disabled and they murdered him. Another example of the shoot first, think later by the police.

Cant the police tell the difference between a toy and a real gun? They couldnt tell a man was disabled?

Yet another shoot to kill policy. This is why people dont trust the police, how can they when the go around shooting innocent people and the disabled,



www.msnbc.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

If the toy rifle was bright red then maybe it could have been seen to be a toy, but the amount of toy rifles/handguns that look real is way more than the ones that look fake, especially from a distance.
Its unfortunate, but if it had have been real and they hadnt fired on him, lots of innocent people could have been hurt.

How could lots of people have been hurt?

The maximum is one because he would have been taken down after the 1st shot.
Id have no problem with a person being shot and killed then.

This is a toy
A little black paint on the muzzle and you'd never know that your staring at a gun that only shoots plastic bb's.

ETA
The man was reported to have pointed the "toy" at a dog in the neighborhood. Look at the picture in the link. It appears to be the barrel of the toy gun sticking out of the bag. I see no blaze orange paint on the muzzle.

www.nbcmiami.com...

Although this is sad to see and hindsight is a wonderful thing and all that.

Imagine the alternative Norway headlines:

"Police received reports of man carrying gun on holiday island but went unchallenged - dozens dead" - Obviously this is only a fictional headline but hopefully some will see what I am trying to say!

Unfortunately for the Dead man, the Police shot first. Fortunately for the general public - he was only carrying a toy gun!

reply to post by Flyer

He was mentally disabled and they murdered him. Another example of the shoot first, think later by the police.

Cant the police tell the difference between a toy and a real gun? They couldnt tell a man was disabled?

Although unfortunate, some toy weapons are made to look extremely close to the real thing. Some are made with a little red piece at the end of the barrel but that is easily broken off or painted over.

From a distance it is extremely hard to tell the difference between a toy and the real thing if the toy even somewhat resembles a real gun.

Also, it is extremely hard to tell some people are mentally disabled without in depth interaction with them. Sure you can tell something is "not quite right" but that is overridden when they are holding what appears to be a rifle.

Yet another shoot to kill policy. This is why people dont trust the police, how can they when the go around shooting innocent people and the disabled,

It is nice to see that you can come to that determination while sitting comfortably in front of your computer, knowing all the facts as they are reported and having hind sight that is 20/20.

The police probably got a call that someone was walking around with a rifle. Thats correct, numerous people called the police who most likely also thought it was a real gun.

The incident began Wednesday afternoon when officers responded to calls about a man seen walking around with a rifle.

It says an encounter ensued between the police and the man and shots were fired.

An encounter between the man and officers ensued and shots were fired, North Miami Beach police spokesman Sgt. Warren Hardison said.

Most likely, the police approached him and ordered him to drop the weapon. Because he is mentally handicapped, he may not have understood. He may have even pointed the weapon at the police before they decided to open fire.

I can guarantee you that the officer is going to be scarred for life because of this. I couldnt imagine the guilt that officer is feeling now that he knows it was a toy gun. It is an unfortunate scenario, but it is not murder.

You are trying to blame the police while instead, whoever is responsible for this mentally handicapped individual should be to blame. If they were supervising him adequately or simply did not provide him with a toy gun that looked real, this would not have happened.

Originally posted by Flyer
Cant the police tell the difference between a toy and a real gun?

They cant tell the difference between a pager and a gun, a wallet and a gun, a cell phone and a gun, a hair brush and a gun, etc...

If you have hands or arms you will get shot. They could be guns.

reply to post by StarTraveller


So you think police wouldnt shoot him after the 1st shot was fired?
You think the streets wouldnt have been cleared so it was just the police and him?

There was no danger to the public.

reply to post by StarTraveller


your thinking of preventative measures, just like hitler was, stop them before they can possibly do something wrong,

what if the jews were gonna take over the world, doesnt the what if justify killng them all?

what if that man has a real gun, we should kill him then,

same logic, your joining hitler,

Who Shot First, thats what matters

reply to post by Flyer


Stop presuming, Didn't say that and I know I didn't say that cos I was sitting here when I typed it.

Luckily (unluckily for the dude that was shot) this has gone the way it has without the loss of more than one life, which I agree in this instance is regrettable.

If he was mentally not all there, where was his guardian. In this day and age its never an idea to carry anything that remotely looks like a firearm, something his guardian/carer/parent should have prevented.

Looking at the image in the news article the 'gun' in question was lacking the orange 'tip' that signifies it being a toy. Also as has been mentioned, unless the Police knew this chap, how were they to know he was mentally challenged.

I am not condoning nor do I agree with the 'Shoot First - Ask Questions Later' approach but please, buggered if they do buggered if they don't

reply to post by pryingopen3rdeye


Sorry mate but I cant type WTF big enough. What the hell does this have anything at all to do with Hitler and the Jews... bad attempt at derailing the thread and deviating from the subject matter.

Who Shot First, thats what matters

Agreed, unfortunately 'this time' is was not a great call

Here in America people carry guns at times. In places like Miami they don't. There is a strange unwritten law about where guns can be carried. It depends on the mindset of the area. The same man would have been ignored in a rural setting.

reply to post by Flyer


I see you live in England. You should be especially worried about these highly detailed/exact replicas of the real weapons. In nations that have banned gun ownership the sport of Airsoft is growing by leaps and bounds and the demand for these toys is amazing. Most of these guns accept all of the bells and whistles that fit on their real firearm counterparts. Without holding one you'd never know these aren't real. The manufacturers of the real weapons are even licensing their names and logos to be used on these guns. In fact many law enforcement agencies even use them for training because of their detail and the non lethal risk that is important for training.

I use a detailed pistol replica to train with in my garage. It mimics all of the details and handling characteristics of its 9mm brother. It's cheap and safe training that benefits me on the range or on the street.

Just look at some of these ca.classicarmy.com...

In a life or death situation you can't expect any law enforcement official to even stop for a moment to consider that these may just be toys.

reply to post by jibeho


This is the point I was trying to make, very well said

reply to post by Flyer


Really?????

If somebody is waving a gun around, the Police should wait until the suspect actually shoots and potentially kills somebody before taking him down?

I agree that over the years the Police have become more aggressive and I normally agree with much of the criticism they receive on ATS, but in this case, the police were 100% correct.

Clear the streets?? Do you honestly believe the Police had enough time to "clear the streets" with somebody brandishing a rifle in public? If your child was playing in your yard and this person was waving a rifle around, would you want the Police to wait until he fires his gun? Wait until they can somehow "clear everybody from the streets"?

The fact the rifle was a toy was irrelevant, especially since the "toy marker" was either removed or painted over.

As unfortunate as this situation is, the Police were not to blame, some my blame the person responsible for mentally disabled person, but we do not know the extent of his metal illness and it is possible that we may have to chalk this up as a accident of sorts. The suspect my not have completely understood what he was doing, but the Police really did not have a choice as far as public safety was concerned.

reply to post by Dreamwatcher


Id have got my child out of there long before the police arrived.

There is no suggestion he pointed it at the police either.

reply to post by Flyer


OK, so you would know that this suspect was out and doing what he was "long before the Police arrived", how?

How far had the suspect walked in the neighborhood? Where was he? If he was around the corner or up the street a ways, how would you know what was going on? It takes less than a second to fire a gun, and a rilfe can especially shoot some distance.

The fact he did not point his gun at the Police also is irrelevant, he was brandishing the weapon in public putting everybody in the area in danger. One is not even safe in their house in this situation as the glass used in residential housing isn't exactly bullet proof.

reply to post by StarTraveller



you didnt get my point? let me attempt to re explain

your post said (paraphrasing) that the police where justified to kill a man who appeared to have a gun because he might possibly have a real gun and might possibly do something bad with it, therefor its ok that they killed a disabled man with a toy rifle,

i was telling you that is considered preventative violence, violence used to prevent potential violence,

which is the same logic hitler used to convince his countrymen that it was justified to round up and murder jews,

according to hitler, it was a preventative war, war to prevent war,

you are saying the police are justified because this is a case of killing to prevent killing

is that clear enough?

reply to post by pryingopen3rdeye


Yes they are. The Police are not going to wait for somebody who is brandishing a weapon to actually kill somebody before taking action.

You seem to think that all our Police are just itching at the trigger to kill somebody. Really?? Do you really believe that?

A few months ago, the Police stopped a couple of teenagers walking on the sidewalk across the street from my house. One of them had a rifle case that one could see had a weapon in it (it was cloth/leather). The Police got the case from the kid (asked and handed over, no force involved), inspected the weapon, discovered it was a BB rifle. They put the weapon back in the case and handed it back to the kid, and sent them on their way.

The difference in that case? The teenagers were not displaying the weapon in a threatening way. The weapon was cased up and being carried by the case strap around the shoulder pointing towards the ground.


I cannot make the argument much clearer between my posts in this topic, so i am not going to try. I do not know what else to say. If people do not get it by now, i doubt they ever will. Maybe somebody else can take over and hopefully get through.