2030 - Top Countries

1. USA (Simply because the USA controls so much and most likely will in the future)
2. China (Rapidly growing economy)
3. UK (the UK has always had a big part in the world and will continue to)
4. Russia (Would have hopefully embraced democracy properly be then)

Note: No EU in my list, it's doomed to fail, there is a rapidly growing Euro-sceptic number of people who want the EU to end.

I think the USA will easily hold the top spot in 2030. Economically the US is far more advanced than any other country. China while displaying great growth numbers at the moment has no experience at managing their economy for long term stable growth. 20% growth this year could easily be 30% contraction in 5 years.

As far as military superpowers go then individually China may get the nod in 2030. But its allies that count and Nato should be able to easily tackle any serious matters IMO.

1) China will develop better management skills for sure, it's a fast paced world nowadays and the Chinese are quick learners. They will be on top

2) Russia will not make the top 10 list. Its government is corrupt, and population suffers from lack of real national identity after the breakdown of the Soviet Union. The inftrastructure will age and disintegrate. Even now some regions are in the state of virtual chaos. It's a defeated nation

Originally posted by qwzxasAre you reatarded. Mexicos military sucks. You all are talking like the US will stop making weapons, and advancing, letting other nations get better. Well guess what not in this universe.

Read my post again, qwzxas, or better yet, read Buchanana�s book before you call either of us retarded. When did I ever mention Mexico�s military? That has absolutely nothing to do with it, at all. You have about as much credibility when calling us retarded as a geologist does telling you why you suffer from terminal depression.

What�s funny is you criticize him without even looking at the facts and points he makes. As a member of ATS I thought you were more inclined to �deny ignorance� than the average person. I guess I was wrong. I could stoop down to your level with worthless name-calling, but I�m far too mature for that.

I�ll clear up my post for you, so that perhaps you can have more luck trying to comprehend it. Nowhere in my post did I say there will be blood shed in the US�s eventual demise as a world power. I said due to massive immigration, and extreme amounts of illegal citizens sneaking into this country, Americans will no longer be the majority here, but the minority. It isn�t good for any country when its own people are outnumbered four to one.

Eventually the non-Americans will start to take political positions, and from the on it�s only a matter of time. If you think about it that way, it really doesn�t matter how many new weapons the US makes, does it? Wake up from that dream of yours and face reality for a change.

Americas ever collapsing birth rates, when coupled with the fact that the population explosions in Africa, Asia, and Latin America are increasing every year, coupled with the fact that unchecked immigration swamps will eventually polarize Western society, you�ll understand what I mean when I say the West is dying.

America as of now is essentially �a nation within a nation�. It�ll be a non-violent shift in world powers, and there isn't a thing you can do about it. So get over yourself.

[edit on 8/26/2004 by The Crow]

I think that the natural development of the EU would be for most (in time all) european countries to join. Russia being part of the plan especially if continuing rifts with the US causes NATO to disband and a new Euro def force take its place.

This would indeed be a Super power. Although infrastructures would need to harmonise. I believe this is why kerry stated the need to renew relationships with old european allies not necessary Britain as we would not desert the US no matter what the problem. One other thought about a pan american alliance from south america to canada not purely military but commercially orientated would be number one in my eyes with the EU second.

China is struggling to supply its citizens with basic services which could cause unrest plus it is a super big brother state which would make it unlikely to join up with other countries (militarily speaking). With little or no natural resources they are currently trying to develop alternative power because of this problem (if they do then you could see them in the no 1 spot as they have the largest population i believe.)

What about africa if they could get there act together you cannot deny they have a wealth of natural resources with which to develop and commercially they are a better market place as they have little or no infrastructure just now (you did say 2030 after all).

Anyway it is food for thought

Originally posted by Munro_DreadGod
China is struggling to supply its citizens with basic services which could cause unrest plus it is a super big brother state which would make it unlikely to join up with other countries (militarily speaking). With little or no natural resources they are currently trying to develop alternative power because of this problem (if they do then you could see them in the no 1 spot as they have the largest population i believe.)

Little or no natural resources you say? Sure they're no oil tanker but they definitely have enough natural resources to last.

I watched a news feed from Sky stating that China has power outs all the time and that this shortage is due to not having enough powerstations to supply the people (they use some kind of rationing system) they are about 4 -6 years behind meeting the demand of today. I dont think that this info was dis information but i have an open mind. Due to the size of the population you must admit that it will be a constant strain or a leash on further development (or growth). I would like to know how much of the worlds oil is under chinese control geographically speaking. And any input from chinese members appreciated as i may be wrong.

Russia, and usa, thats it, chinese dont have enough resources or land, too much population, not enough electricity


EU?:

#2 Russia sits on top of 41% of this planet's natural resources.

#3 Russia can build a wall around itself because it is absolutely self-sufficient (raw materials, industries, services, etc), can EU?

#4 if tommorrow Russia cut off its gas and oil pipes to you and Saudies will refuse to sell you theirs, what is EU going to do - fuel cars and heat houses with paper bills?

#5 Money are good during peaceful times but ones "push comes to shove" - natural resources and manpower are the only things that matter... Did Hitler pay a single penny for all his tanks and airplanes - no, did Stalin - no. In the times of an all out conflict, economy laws becomes irrelevant.
Btw, computers and other electronic equipment use gold and platinum, how many gold and platinum mines are in EU? What about armor for tanks, aluminum for airplanes, steel, rubber, etc.?

#8 Military aspect. I do not see EU as a military power because:
- to many countries speaking different languages - a recipe for a dissaster on a bettlefield
- equipment compatibility issues
- different training standards
- different mentalities!!!! (that one is huge) for example: what do turks have in common with germans?
- western europeans are way too soft and lack resilience, toughness and will to die for the cause/their country. For God's sake - Sweden has housekeeping services in its army/civil defence force, how can anyone take them seriously after that....?

In the end: Chinese are willing/able to die and absorb those losses in large numbers, Russians are as tough as it gets, Americans just love to fight and Europeans, well, Europeans are very civilized.....

Isn't russia European? I wonder how much Russia imports to survive.
Finally is it enough to survive surely you cannot be a superpower just surviving. Russia was a superpower, is it now, well we will leave it there for the moment.

Russians are European.

And China won't have to worry about resources or population crowding. Not if it annexes chunks of Siberia, which is what probably will happen in the long run.

Although China is having problems of its own, it's not quite in as bad a shape as you all make it out to seem.

Originally posted by The Crow
Russians are European.

And China won't have to worry about resources or population crowding. Not if it annexes chunks of Siberia, which is what probably will happen in the long run.
.

yeah right.. the chinks are just cheap slaves in siberia, what do you think, russia will just take a red carpet and welcome the chinks to take siberia?, just wait if someone like zhirinovsky will be the pres he is worse then stalin and hitler combined

You obviously haven't paid attention to any of my previous posts.

Like I said before, the Russian population is declining rapidly. The Chinese population on the other hand is getting larger by the second, literally. They already outnumber the Russians by fourteen times.

The Russians cannot maintain their nukes for too long, it just takes too much money. If they play their cards right, they might be able to keep them for longer. But anyway, without the nukes as a repellent they will be susceptible to attacks. The Russian Far East has a population smaller than that of Czech.

The Chinese look at these chunks of land hungrily, they consider it land stolen from them. Mother Russia knows this, and they are in a state of paranoia about it; 70% of Russians believe China will annex Siberia in the long run. I'm one of them.

China believes EVERYTHING is hers. She will find out taking land from Russia is a bad idea.......

Originally posted by Munro_DreadGod
Isn't russia European? I wonder how much Russia imports to survive.
Finally is it enough to survive surely you cannot be a superpower just surviving. Russia was a superpower, is it now, well we will leave it there for the moment.

Eastern European to be exact. The cultures of Western Europe and Eastern Europe have greatly differed throughout the ages.

Exponential population growth cannot continue indefinitely. If the current growth remains unchanged, the world population would grow from its current 6.3 billion to 43 billion over the next 147 years (2150).

Originally posted by American Mad Man
China believes EVERYTHING is hers. She will find out taking land from Russia is a bad idea.......

Well, I'm not disputing that. They definitely will learn it isn't very easy. And if they underestimate Russian tenacity when it comes to defending their country, the way Hitler and Napoleon did, they have failed before they even start. But...if they are smart, they *might* get things their way.

Under what conditions do you think this will happen?

Because personally, I don't see it happening peacefully.

Originally posted by The Crow
The Chinese look at these chunks of land hungrily, they consider it land stolen from them. Mother Russia knows this, and they are in a state of paranoia about it; 70% of Russians believe China will annex Siberia in the long run. I'm one of them.

Siberia is littered with the corpses of countries that underestimated the Russians defence of the Rodina (motherland) no doubt the US would come to the aid of Russia in the event of ChiCom agression.

Its high time the Middle Kingdom got a spanking



[edit on 27-8-2004 by FredT]

The chinese is not a warlike people
I wonder why some of u always associate it with invasion.

1. EU
2. China
3. Russia
4. Pan-Arab Union
5. India


I'm not sure there will be a USA by then, whether destroyed from within by civil war or destroyed from the outside by a failed international financial system.