It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Jeffrey Dahmer is in heaven right now and you could be too!!!

page: 7
8
<< 4  5  6    8 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 12:29 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

. . .our redemption is complete." Praise the Lord.
When you go to judgement, you will see Jeffrey standing next to Jesus and he will lift his arm and point his finger, saying, "There is the man who taught me to kill."
Jesus will then command strong angels to seize you and to throw you into the fire, along with the false prophet who you do the bidding of.




posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:40 PM
link   

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

. . .our redemption is complete." Praise the Lord.
When you go to judgement, you will see Jeffrey standing next to Jesus and he will lift his arm and point his finger, saying, "There is the man who taught me to kill."
Jesus will then command strong angels to seize you and to throw you into the fire, along with the false prophet who you do the bidding of.


Lol! What the hell are you smoking?? Why does it have to be "strong" angels? Are weak angels less strong than us humans? What if Christ commanded a few weak angels? Would a few of them be strong enough to bind me and cast me into hell? I'm really confused as to why it must be strong angels in your prophecy.. And just because you inserted Jeffery's name in the post dosn't mean it was even remotely on topic.


edit on 2-9-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:49 PM
link   

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 
That's all just philosophy.
Just making it mean whatever you want it to.
Anyway, your argument is total bunk.
The exact same word, as in the same morphology, is also found two verses before that one.

After this Jesus, realizing that by this time everything was completed, said (in order to fulfill the scripture), “I am thirsty!”



Ahhhh yes, I was concerned you'd yet again completely shread my argument by simply declaring it wrong without a valid counter-argument. Crap, what can I do now??

You're more than welcome to do a Greek word-study on "Tetelestai".



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 10:41 AM
link   
Just wanna say real quickly... First, Words are different than an actual repentance taking place.

Also, don't you kinda think dahmer was "not all there"? How could he have been? I realize this is a longer conversation than either of us have time for... But its not as if he murdered someone for hitting on his girlfriend or owing him money and not paying him back. He did it because there was something wrong with him. Deep inside.

Third, I think god would forgive you for the fact that you've been lied to about lots of things concerning him. Some people think I'm going to hell because I didn't capitalize "him", or "god". I think that's a silly rule, and I also think that so much manipulation has been done, mostly on the part of the Roman Catholic Church, The Vatican, and other powerful organizations, that we have to basically start from scratch, look deep within yourself, and decide what is right.

So, I'm with you as far as the fact that all this stuff about heaven and hell has been twisted around so much that it doesn't make sense. However, I think its a mistake to throw out the whole concept of god and heaven and hell.
We each have our own set of experiences to go off of. I don't believe in god because some preacher told me to or else I'd go to hell. In fact, I quit going to church a long time ago. I think there are some good churches out there, but I just haven't bothered to look. I would imagine it would be a small church. Not one of these mega churches that seem to have more money than they know what to do with. Perhaps a group of people who meet in the den of someone's home... Maybe they don't even have a preacher, maybe they all take turns talking... And they all help eachother as needed. Maybe they even do have a collection basket, as a way to save up money for when someone in the community needs it. Maybe someone who's not even a church member loses their husband to death or another woman, and as a single mother, she needs help paying the rent for a month while she gets things figured out...

But, anyway, i believe in god because of my own personal experiences. You see, I have been fortunate at every turn in life. I was somehow given a big house left to me by a stranger. I've never been sick or injured badly. I have never been cheated on, in fact, I met my wife at age 16 in highschool, and we've been together ever since. I've never had to look for work. As soon as I got out of highschool, my girlfriends rich dad offered me a job at his property management company, a cushy desk job, with more benefits than you could imagine. I currently drive a Lexus, my wife got a Mercedes-Benz because, what can I say I like to spoil her. Your side doesn't drive one? Hmmm. I guess you just don't love her as much as I love my sweetie pie... Oh I just adore her, let me tell you...

I'm just kidding.

My life has been full of hardship. And I always have a mixture of laughter and extreme frustration when people say stuff like "well if there's a god, then why doesnt he fly down to earth and solve all our problems? Why did I get laid off? Why did my dad get cancer and die a slow painful death?" Those people, to me, just don't get it. Which means whoever raised them probably didn't get it either. My parents didn't get it either. They didn't explain it to me the right way. When I was young, I truly believed that if I prayed for it hard enough and often enough, god would give me a Corvette...

I remember an episode of Beavis and Butthead from when I was a teenager, where they were watching a music video of Radiohead's "Creep". They were complainingr about it because it was too wussy, and then it started rocking more, when the part comes on where he's jammin his guitar. Beavis and Butthead eventually came to the conclusion that "without the sucky parts, the part that rocks wouldn't kick as much ass."



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 10:56 AM
link   
reply to post by ZackMorris
 





Also, don't you kinda think dahmer was "not all there"? How could he have been? I realize this is a longer conversation than either of us have time for... But its not as if he murdered someone for hitting on his girlfriend or owing him money and not paying him back. He did it because there was something wrong with him. Deep inside.


I have to say..that the above makes a lot of sense. This was a twisted individual and who knows what made him this way.. I personally believe he was under the influences of very dark and evil spirits... but I don't know for sure.

That being said..if there is evil..or a "devil"..should we assume that there is something wrong with him deep inside..and have pity?

I really don't know if there is a heaven or a hell..but I do know that there are some very dark and malicious energies out there..as well as some very kind loving benevolent energies.

If hell is real..I don't wish for anyone to be there eternally .. and if jeffrey dahlmer is truly sorry for what he has done..that is far better than him not being sorry.

I do not agree that if there is a god..he does not judge sin on a curve... there are many various degrees to sin.. and they are measured by the amount of damage done by them , and the extent of grace needed to absolve them.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 09:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by pstrron
People love to justify themselves by saying that they are not as bad as someone else. So lets take the "I'm a good person test" shall we. Please consider if a person or yourself has done any of the following and if you would consider that person to be a good person.

1. Have you ever told a lie? YES/NO Does not matter if you tell 99.9% truth and 0.1% lie it's still a lie. There is no such thing as a white lie. All lies are lies and not truth. Don't try and twist or spin it, it's either the truth 100% or it's a lie.

2. Have you ever taken anything that did not belong to you? YES/NO Does not matter the size or value even 1 grain of rice will do. Sneaking a peak at something is stealing with your eyes and the same thing.

3. Have you ever murdered someone? YES/NO Unjustified hate is considered the same as murder it does not matter the amount of time even if it was for an instant. Hating someone for something they did not do is unjustified hate.

4. Have you ever committed adultery/fornication? YES,NO Looking at a woman or man and lusting after them is the same thing as doing the act. As you would do it if you got the chance and thought you wouldn't get caught. Thus you did so in your heart. By the way, refer to question 2 in regards to asking permission of the person you lusted after if it was OK. If you did not get permission answer YES to that question.

5. Would you say that a person that lies, steals, murders and is an adulterer/adulteress at heart is/are a good person? YES,NO

Websters dictionary defines a good person as one that is morally excellent. Therefore since I can guarantee that there is not even one good person on planet Earth, what makes you think you are good? People claim that God is love and that He is good. Well if God is love and is good then by nature He must punish all liers, thieves, adulterer/adulteress (at heart) and murders.

Man figures that if he is basically good by his standard on life's road that he is OK. However, God's standard is 10 miles further down the road and at much higher level. You can go on justifying yourself but the fact remains, you are not a good person and deserve the punishment that you will receive for failure to keep God's law.

Jesus paid the debt he did not owe because we owed a debt that we could not pay. Jeffery may have accepted the payment by humbling himself and trusting in Jesus to save him. Aunt May, whom we thought was good (by mans standards) went to hell because she broke God's law and didn't trust in Jesus to save her.

For those that think that they can wait until their death bed to come to Jesus are sadly mistaken. We know not when death will come our way, for it will come when we think not! I could go on in regards to this subject but this should give you an ideas as to why Jeffery could be in heaven and the so called "good" people go to hell.

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Romans 3:10-12 KJV

A quick note on children, there is an age of accountability and it is different with each person. Some reach it rather early in life and some never do. You reach the age of accountability when you know and understand that what you are doing is wrong. Still does not mean that you are good, just not accountable.


Thanks Ray Comfort for a marvelous rant! Still using guilt to bait people into Christianity I see.



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 06:41 AM
link   

Originally posted by SevenOhhTwo
reply to post by Josonic
 


This is the kind of sh** that would make me gladly walk through the gates of hell if there is such a thing.. There are just way to many contradictions in that horrible book called the bible.. In the words of Bill Maher - "There is more morality in the Rick James bible".. If a person can do all that and still be saved at the end of the day, then all i gotta do is pray on my death bed then i'm safe.. Untill then f*** religion..


Yes you can wait to pray on your deathbed, but the question is. How will you die? Will you be concious and able to pray? Or will you die so suddenly that it is instant and you find yourself staring into that black abyss because you didnt repent and change your ways. No man knows the manner of his death. You might not even be lucid enough to know youre on your deathbed because you may have alzheimers disease or dementia that many elderly get. You could die in a car wreck tomorow, and then where will you go? A meteor could fall on you and kill you stepping out your door to go to work one morning. Someone could break into your house to rob you and shoot you in the face because you saw their identity. You could have a massive heart attack or a stroke and be unable to ask for Jesus forgiveness before you die. You could be decapitated by a sharp object flying off the back of an 18 wheeler (saw that happen once in L.A. nasty mess).

Yes you can wait till youre deathbed to repent and ask Jesus for forgiveness, assuming that you can even make it there in the first place. You don't have to be a part of religion. Following Jesus Christ is a way of life, not a religion. We do his will and keep his commandments because we love him and want to honor his sacrifice, and in his memory we love our enemies as we love our friends, feed the poor and tend to the sick and minister to the dying or clothe the needy who cannot afford to clothe themselves. If you can have a loving and giving heart, then maybe you are called to do the Lord's will, but if you will not lift a finger to help a stranger in need then you are better off going to a religion. To be a true christian and not a psuedo-christian you must do the Lord's work, walk the path he set for you. It is not an easy life we live, but if you love Jesus with all your heart and giving up your will and your life and your material possessions is very easy. Jesus loved you before you were ever born, and he gave up his life to pay for your sins. That was the power of his love, to die for people who didn't even know him or care about him, people that spat at him and cursed him, beat him unrecognizeable, people who ostrasized him and people who to this day who say "f*** Jesus i dont need him!" he died, for people like you.

As to the OP, I don't want anyone to burn in the lake of fire or be imprisoned in hell till judgement day. Did Jeffrey Dahmer deserve to burn forever? Yes he does deserve it, but so do I and so do you, and so does anyone who was ever born. Babies however, will not burn because they are innocent and incapable of knowing right from wrong. Children are covered by the same law of accountability as babies are, until they can know right from wrong and why they should not do wrong. The rest of us however? Oh yes we all deserve the torments of hell and then the lake of fire. You, me, everyone. But the good news is, we don't have to if you can believe in Jesus and confess your sins and ask for forgiveness and repent your ways and walk his path. Unless Mr. Dahmer did those things, then yeah he will go to hell when the resurrection comes.
edit on 5-9-2011 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 07:56 AM
link   
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


You wrote:

["Yes you can wait to pray on your deathbed, but the question is. How will you die? Will you be concious and able to pray?"]

and:

Quote: ["You could have a massive heart attack or a stroke and be unable to ask for Jesus forgiveness before you die."]


Why do you believe, that 'praying' will be the last wish of a dying person. And why do you believe, that there's anything to "ask forgiveness for"?

Based on this scare scenario maybe....?:

["As to the OP, I don't want anyone to burn in the lake of fire or be imprisoned in hell till judgement"]

Which is YOUR mythological choice, still only promoted by repetitious preachings from you.

Quote (on 'burning'): ["Yes he does deserve it, but so do I and so do you, and so does anyone who was ever born."]

Not according to Buddha and TFSM, only according to you. And you simply have to learn to live with, that not all of us accept your 'guru'-role.

Quote: ["Oh yes we all deserve the torments of hell and then the lake of fire."]

Either you have done some pretty awful things, or you are referring to the absurd doctrine of 'original sin'. Neither of which have any importance outside your self-contained circle.



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 08:34 AM
link   
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 

. . .you can believe in Jesus and confess your sins and ask for forgiveness and repent your ways and walk his path. Unless Mr. Dahmer did those things, then yeah he will go to hell when the resurrection comes.
Do a little research and you find out he did all those things.
Go ahead and find out yourself and come back here and say Jeffrey is in Heaven.



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 08:41 AM
link   
reply to post by bogomil
 

Why do you believe, that 'praying' will be the last wish of a dying person.
I don't remember praying before I died.
I remember thinking, "This really sucks."

I think you have to have a sort of prayerful attitude in life, all the time, and then you are not dependent on that one prayer just when you need it.

Of course this is not directed at you but I just liked your line and wanted to quote it.



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 09:02 AM
link   
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


You wrote:

["I think you have to have a sort of prayerful attitude in life, all the time, and then you are not dependent on that one prayer just when you need it."]

An attitude just as respectable as a professing buddhist wanting 'clarity'; an exoteric follower of some asian religions saying a mantra; a gnostic taking out the map of the cosmic 'escape route'; the advanced tao'ist or zen-practitioner already having 'been there'... so nothing new; and me being pragmatic and waiting to observe, what happens next....if 'I' still am there, still can observe and any 'whats' are going to happen.

On these conditions, it's probably going to be interesting, and will be a new refreshing 'research' situation.



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 09:12 AM
link   
reply to post by bogomil
 
You cant put spirit in a bottle, otherwise it would not be spirit.
By denying it to others, you deny it to yourself.



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 09:44 AM
link   

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 

. . .you can believe in Jesus and confess your sins and ask for forgiveness and repent your ways and walk his path. Unless Mr. Dahmer did those things, then yeah he will go to hell when the resurrection comes.
Do a little research and you find out he did all those things.
Go ahead and find out yourself and come back here and say Jeffrey is in Heaven.


You don't go to heaven until the resurrection day, we sleep till the Lord's return. Thats the miracle of redemption, it doesn't matter what you've done in your old life, it passes away and is wiped clean.



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 09:44 AM
link   

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by bogomil
 
You cant put spirit in a bottle, otherwise it would not be spirit.
By denying it to others, you deny it to yourself.



Somewhat enigmatic, but I'll try.

In a potential trans-cosmic situation, reductionist materialism is ofcourse worthless (even if I believed in reductionist materialism, which I don't).

So, IF this potential of trans-cosmicity is true, it's (with an educated guess) either 'ordered' (the theist version), which means getting aquainted with this new type of order

or.....

If it's chaotic (non-ordered), there will be opportunities for introspective fun, as you can make your own 'reality'.



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 09:50 AM
link   

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 

. . .you can believe in Jesus and confess your sins and ask for forgiveness and repent your ways and walk his path. Unless Mr. Dahmer did those things, then yeah he will go to hell when the resurrection comes.
Do a little research and you find out he did all those things.
Go ahead and find out yourself and come back here and say Jeffrey is in Heaven.


You don't go to heaven until the resurrection day, we sleep till the Lord's return. Thats the miracle of redemption, it doesn't matter what you've done in your old life, it passes away and is wiped clean.


As time isn't present outside cosmos, why this delay?

Considering the administration problems manifest in the system you represent, it would be more effective and with less possibilities of bureaucratic mistakes, if individuals were 'judged' successively.



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 10:00 AM
link   

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


You wrote:

["Yes you can wait to pray on your deathbed, but the question is. How will you die? Will you be concious and able to pray?"]

and:

Quote: ["You could have a massive heart attack or a stroke and be unable to ask for Jesus forgiveness before you die."]


Why do you believe, that 'praying' will be the last wish of a dying person. And why do you believe, that there's anything to "ask forgiveness for"?

Based on this scare scenario maybe....?:

["As to the OP, I don't want anyone to burn in the lake of fire or be imprisoned in hell till judgement"]

Which is YOUR mythological choice, still only promoted by repetitious preachings from you.

Quote (on 'burning'): ["Yes he does deserve it, but so do I and so do you, and so does anyone who was ever born."]

Not according to Buddha and TFSM, only according to you. And you simply have to learn to live with, that not all of us accept your 'guru'-role.

Quote: ["Oh yes we all deserve the torments of hell and then the lake of fire."]

Either you have done some pretty awful things, or you are referring to the absurd doctrine of 'original sin'. Neither of which have any importance outside your self-contained circle.




Come now. You know my beliefs by now bogy. Why do you even bother to continue asking why i believe what i do? You think youre going to stop my beliefs? You think youre going to stop me from trying to clue people into the true meaning of life and following the Lord's path? You will fail everytime because i will not stop. You would have better success going 1 on 1 with a grizzly bear then me.

How is original sin absurd? Tell me why its false? Who do you think you are to make such a judgement? What species did you create and set the rules for? Exactly, you haven't created anything, and until you do you have no right to say original sin is wrong. How inflated your ego is to make such bold statements.

Do you even know what orignal sin is? I have a hard time believing that an atheist could possibly undersand anything he reads in a holy book, because you believe in nothing you can't see with your own eyes, you have no faith in anything other than yourself. When has selfism and selfishness ever benefited other people other than he/she who is selfish? No one.

You say my faith is mythological but you cannot even prove it is. You will spend the rest of your life trying to prove God/Jesus is not real and you will fail. You continue on everyday in an excersice in futility. You are like a monkey reaching out trying to grab the sun, and you will never succeed. My faith can move mountains, what can your faith move? Nothing, because you believe in nothing more than yourself. You try to justify your sad existence by denying and decrying men and women of faith in order to fill your empty shell of a soul, and no matter what you try to put in that hole in your heart, it will never be enough. I try to turn people on to a God who will heal their broken hearts, and wipe away all their sorrows with his love. I know what you want Bogy, you want to fall on your knees and ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins, its ok you don't have to be a closet christian anymore, you can be free.
edit on 5-9-2011 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 10:23 AM
link   
reply to post by bogomil
 

Somewhat enigmatic, but I'll try.
I was trying to put it on a practical level to support the idea you presented, which is that there is a similarity between what different people from different backgrounds do.
Jesus said something like, "What I give, I give freely."
People in a priest class who have salaries from a religious institution would not like that.
Think of what Bill Gates would think of Firefox or Lenux.
Jesus is open source religion but it quickly got co opted by the religionists of the "pagan" institutions who saw the writing on the wall and put their fence around Jesus to make people pay for access.
The followers of the mystery religions hated christianity probably because it meant the demise of that system of teaching the principles of life and death and how to make your way through Hades, and such things.
Why go through all that, including a pilgramage, when you could have it all just spelled out to you in words you could copy down and read when you want?
edit on 5-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 11:07 AM
link   
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


You wrote:

["Come now. You know my beliefs by now bogy"]

There are still some interesting details missing.

Quote: ["Why do you even bother to continue asking why i believe what i do?"]

Why do people contribute to a public forum?

Quote: ["You think youre going to stop my beliefs?"]

I'll repeat my answer from when you asked me last time: Why would I want to do that?

Quote: ["You think youre going to stop me from trying to clue people into the true meaning of life and following the Lord's path? You will fail everytime because i will not stop."]

I think it's great, that you profile your position as strongly as you do.

Quote: ["How is original sin absurd?"]

On a gradual analysis starting from gen. 1, a confused/ignorant 'god' emerges in gen. 3 where self-proclaimed 'laws/absolutes' are presented. The self-proclamation ofcourse makes the whole argument a circle-argumented assumption, but on a more rational note a comparison between contemporary science/logic knowledge and the assumptions in gen. 3 makes the the chronology in gen.1-3 absurd, and only creationist pseudo-methodology tries to give an answer to that. (But that's another subject for other threads).

Quote: ["Exactly, you haven't created anything, and until you do you have no right to say original sin is wrong."]

You don't seriously expect me to operate on your circle-argumented premises? But you are ofcourse free to disregard logic, if you insist on doing so.

Quote: ["How inflated your ego is to make such bold statements."]

Please...a decent standard.

Quote: ["Do you even know what orignal sin is?"]

Yes, from several of the optional perspectives.

Quote: ["I have a hard time believing that an atheist could possibly undersand anything he reads in a holy book,..."]

Well, it's your "hard time", which I can't do anything about. And what 'atheist' do you refer to?

Quote: ["because you believe in nothing you can't see with your own eyes,"]

You are unfamiliar with the systematic methodology I use, so don't make assumptions about it.

Quote: ["you have no faith in anything other than yourself."]

It's true, that I'm not much of an 'authority-relying' person, but there are subjects, where I lean on trust-worthy authority on certain conditions.

Quote: ["When has selfism and selfishness ever benefited other people other than he/she who is selfish?"]

I believe, you are confusing some unrelated concepts with each other.

Quote: ["You say my faith is mythological but you cannot even prove it is."]

I don't need to. According to standard logic, you bear the 'burden of proof'. Otherwise will YOU please disprove the flying spaghetti monster.

Quote: ["You will spend the rest of your life trying to prove God/Jesus is not real and you will fail."]

Now how did you get this idea? Prophecy?

Quote: ["You continue on everyday in an excersice in futility. You are like a monkey reaching out trying to grab the sun, and you will never succeed. My faith can move mountains, what can your faith move?"]

I don't have that kind of faith, and even if I had, I wouldn't make such extravagant claims.

Quote: ["Nothing, because you believe in nothing more than yourself. You try to justify your sad existence by denying and decrying men and women of faith in order to fill your empty shell of a soul, and no matter what you try to put in that hole in your heart, it will never be enough"]

I question both the validity and topic relevance of such character-analyses.

Quote: ["I try to turn people on to a God who will heal their broken hearts, and wipe away all their sorrows with his love."]

Decent of you, but this doesn't validate any doctrinal theist claims such as e.g. original sin etc.

Quote: ["I know what you want Bogy, you want to fall on your knees and ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins, its ok you don't have to be a closet christian anymore, you can be free."]

I appreciate humour in most of its forms.



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 11:18 AM
link   
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


You wrote:

["The followers of the mystery religions hated christianity probably because it meant the demise of that system of teaching the principles of life and death and how to make your way through Hades, and such things."]

If you with 'mystery religions' mean the 'direct experience path', I am personally an enthusiastic supporter of that. Though I doubt this would be a confrontational 'issue' between us, as us direct-experiencers are individualists not caring much for exoteric formalism.

Whatever happens to Jeffrey Dahmer (if anything), 'he' (or part of him) will discover it eventually.



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 11:23 AM
link   
reply to post by bogomil
 

Why do people contribute to a public forum?

I think that people preaching fail to consider that if their preaching goes unopposed, then the thread goes down the list into obscurity.
Just being right, and in the archives, unread, is not too glorious, in my opinion.
So I think preachers should welcome criticism if for no other reason than to have the opportunity to further elaborate on the message.

edit on 5-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)




top topics



 
8
<< 4  5  6    8 >>

log in

join