A Question for Father/Husbands

reply to post by zarp3333


I think men were evil for a time period, but I think the pendulum is swinging back the other way now.

To fight effectively with your wife, you have to think like her. (You also have to be a good husband, so you will have ammunition.) You have to remember every little thing you did right, because she is going to remember every little thing you did wrong!!

My wife has brought out the "you never do anything around here" a couple of times, but when I point out all of the dishes, and laundry, and vacuuming that I have done requested and unrequested, then her argument kind of collapses. Then she likes to go to "I shouldn't have to ask all the time" to which I ask her when have I ever declined to do a single thing for her? There is nothing I won't do around the house if it makes her life better and happier, but sometimes we have to toot our own horn, because the wife is feeling overworked and under-appreciated just like you are, and she doesn't realize just how much of the burden you are actually sharing. Of course, as in any good negotiation, you have to be willing to walk away. If she doesn't believe you are helping out, offer to take a fishing trip for a couple of weeks and see if she notices you are gone!

As for the kids. Mine get a ton of love and a ton of discipline. If I have to scold or spank, I make sure they understand exactly why. They are only 3 and 4 years old, and I hate for them to get into trouble. Lately, I have been given them choices for their punishment, which they really hate. They get to choose between no TV, no candy, no crawling in my bed at night, or a spanking, or a real apology and some chores. My 4 year old is getting pretty good at Dishes, and my 3 year old has penned a "clean-up song."

Yes, the world and our society is going to hell in a handbasket, but we can be the beacons that bring it back around. Don't lose your sanity, or cave in to political correctness. Continue to be a MAN, and be a very good Man, but don't be afraid to expect some Respect for your efforts!

I have blocked all the children's TV that has those sorts of families and kids on them. I mean, utterly blocked them off my recieiver. My kids cannot watch them. I find their depiction of everyone offensive. The kids, the parents, teachers. The disney one's literally put the hair on my neck up.

I didn't watch those previous "Father knows best" type of shows. They are so ridiculous themselves. Does anybody making these shows ever actually HAVE families???

With kids - The word No - its great. I use it regularly.

I don't know your marriage. Your wife has many responsibilities, just like you do. You need to figure out together how to nurture some common interests that don't revolve around your children. The sex that you had before the kids is really not enough to keep someone's long term interest up. Its enough to re-inforce not replace intimacy.

I mean, unless you have made it into a hobby. I know there are couples like that, but it lacks some depth.

I think you are having some existential angst about not knowing your place in your own life. Your place is there - you simply need to define it and live it. In previous generations, your place was defined for you. No thought on your part required. I'm sure that seems very appealing to people. Not me, but many other people. Here's your manual, now off you go.

reply to post by Aeons


What about Andy Griffith?

That was my model as a child thinking of what kind of father I would be. I think my father tried to model him as well, but he had a much worse temper than Andy, but he was still a good father.

Little House on the Prairie, The Rifleman, Bonanza, those were the decent families on TV in my household as a child. We never watched Leave it to Beaver, or Father Knows Best or even the Cosby show. Those were all way too lame and fictional!

My kids watch Spongebob, and Scooby Doo and the occasional movie, but we don't watch any sitcoms these days, they are all crap.

I'm not sure why anyone would model the behaviour of fictional parents, unless they have fictional children?

Originally posted by zarp3333
Are Husbands are appreciated by their wives less today than they were 30 - 40 years ago.

...no... theres always been women who dont appreciate their man and versa visa...

Originally posted by zarp3333
Sometimes I feel like if my paycheck would arrive in the checking account and there was a security system on the house, nobody would notice if moved.

...i felt the same many times, so did my children's father... i think thats more of a case of exhaustion - at least thats my excuse cuz it sounds better than having a bad case of po' po' pit-a-fool me...

Originally posted by zarp3333
The latest arrow that was slung at me came in the form of a New York Times bestseller, "The Female Brain" by Louann Brezendine.

...ahahahaaa... she is an idiot... ...so, forget everything you read in her stupid book cuz its all distorted generalizations that have no realistic applications...

Originally posted by zarp3333
I can hardly find an example of an intelligent father on any program that my teenage children watch.

...theres a valid reason why they call it the "boob" tube and it has nothing to do with hooters...

Originally posted by zarp3333
Expecting children to be moderately considerate certainly leads to resentments as do requests to pitch in with tasks that cannot be accomplished on line.

...resentment is often confused with a non-conformity stance that is just normal rebellion...

Originally posted by zarp3333
Children seem to have a greater sense of entitlement for material possessions such as cell phones, Ipods, laptops, xboxes and rituals such as sweet sixteen parties or dinners at themed restaurants.

Afterwards the pleasure seems to be short-lived. Possesions that were lobbied for as absolute necessities are often misplaced, broken, lost or forgotten

...imo, that comes from failing to teach the difference between need and want...

Originally posted by zarp3333
There is a constant level of tension over what's to be expected of the kids.

...you mean between you and your wife?... if so, well, its normal enough to have differing opinions - but - to raise fairly stable kids, you have to cooperate with each other and put the kids ahead of your own need to be right...

...also, its really important, imo, that you dont verbally battle about which one of you is right in front of the kids - because - you're teaching them (1) how to be disrespectful, (2) opening insights to them about your own psychological weaknesses, which could come back later to bite you in the ass, (3) it threatens their boundaries and kids need boundaries to feel secure...

...expectations of our kids is often more about us and our ego, then them - and - expectations can lead to disappointment if they're not reasonable... my expectations for my brood were minimal because i wanted them to be who they are but with just a few controlling factors (like - no violence, no tearing up my house, no being disrespectful, no jumping off the roof, lol)... by the time they hit puberty, they were purty much masters at what was expected of them... the teenage years were rough but they turned out just fine...

Originally posted by zarp3333
Help me out here. Am I simply suffering from the age old perception that "kids these days are lazy, unwilling to work hard and take everything for granted" or have things really changed?

...if thats how your kids really are, then (intentionally or not) you and your wife taught them that those values are acceptable...

Originally posted by zarp3333
Do other men feel like their most important contribution to the family was a source of viable sperm with a delivery method that cost less than invitro fertilization?

...maybe you've got other issues thats affecting your disposition - like - being exhausted or your blood sugar levels are off or you're unhappy with your job or your marriage...

One issue you're facing is simply generational. The nuclear family has weakened. Outside pressures, including two working parents, make a lot of difference. Let me tell you a story of mu aunt and uncle.

They were born in the early twenties, suffered through the Deepression only to be thrown into WW II. After the war they had three children, all born in the late forties, my cousins. That group of kids grew up in the fifties and sixties and were variously successful, but were by and large responsible people who managed to get jobs and careers and do OK for themselves. Some started families. There was a divorce or two--pretty typical.

Then my aunt and uncle had two more kids. They were born in the sixties and came of age in the seventies. Both these kids were into drugs. The youngest died of an overdose. The older one made it through alive, and I really don't know what he is doing. He's not a wild success.

The point is that these two groups of kids had the same parents, yet the younger grouping turned out significantly differently than the other group. Now you could write a book on this and I'm sure there are many questions to be and many minute issues to discuss, but my basic point is that there are generational differences that are caused not exclusively by parents, but by the cutlure in general. The kids of one generation have vastly different pressures from outside the home as well as inside.

Your task is to stay focused and if at all possible provide a steady home life for your kids. That includes two parents who show obvious respect and devotion to each other. Your kids will see that, and it is probably the most important thing you can do for them. What you should avoid at all costs is the 'midlife crisis' issue where you become estranged from your spouse, maybe even seek other opportunities and outlets, and let your family spin out of control. Life is tough with kids and it's also busy. But if you can get through this ten year period your kids are going to be gone in a heartbeat.

IMO be careful taking philosophical stances on issues. They are rarely as important as you think they are. For example, I put my foot down with regards to religious education. I absolutely refused to have anything to do with any church whatsoever. But I threw the baby out with the bathwater. There is some value to raising a kid with some moral values that are not self-generated. So now I have an atheist adult kid, which is certainly defensible, but I also have a kid who lacks moral character. I can't trust her to do the "right" thing because she thinks mostly about herself. That was a big mistake on my part. I shpoudl have realized the issue, but I let my philosophical opposition get in the way of common sense.

You already made the commitment to your kids. You just have to follow through with it. I know it isn't always easy.

reply to post by zarp3333


I never even thought to give you Kudos for having the thought process that you might have unrealistic expectations, or that you might be to blame. Just knowing that you have the wherewithal for inner reflection tells me you are probably doing a fine job already!

Keep up the good work and remember:

It's not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or when the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worth cause; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement; and who at the worst if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat. Theodore Roosevelt

Keep being a Father, Keep checking yourself to be sure you are being the person you intend to be, and everything will work out for you!

This is the most beautiful thread I have ever had the privileged to observe.
You go ATS!

reply to post by Aeons


I try to be fun, as best i can.

But above all I am dedicated and devoted without any reservation. And I am actively engaged in all their lives in a positive way. With that, I couldn't go wrong even if my feet smelled of rotten garlic (an ode to my dad).

BTW, I have noticed many guys here say that they haven't figured women out....I make no claims. But I will give you some advice that I KNOW will never steer you wrong:

- learn to cook. And when you cook, clean your dishes as you go. If you can cook good food, and don't mind washing some dishes to reduce the mess, it reduces a womans stress considerably. Less stress = happy home.

- Nothing wrong with doing the laundry. This includes separating, washing, drying, hanging up/folding, or ironing.

- "I'll get that for you, honey."

- "You are so beautiful. How did I get you?"

- They don't want to see you naked. YOU don't want to see yourself naked, why would they?

Men, you know you tend towards selfishness. It is a part of the male human animal. As the "human" in the male human animal, it is your job to overcome this weakness. This isn't rocket science, and it will not always work as sometimes the oil just won't ever mix with your water. That isn't a condemnation on your manhood, just a fact.

For whatever that is worth.

I can relate. But, occasionally you have to actually "step out" to get some respect. I don't mean fool around. Maybe give the old lady a reason to think you might be. Have some lady friends that you knit with.
As for the kids, make them work. If the old lady gets in the way, give her something to do because she has too much time on her hands. But make the kids work, otherwise they will be totally worthless and bumming off of you until the bury you in a cheap casket.
Make the wife and kids miss you before you die.

I think that fatherhood as portrayed in the media is completely wrong.

A father typically works 40 or more hours per week to provide for his family.

A father is a role model for children of both sexes on how a male-female relationship should work. You need to reflect on how you can demonstrate a loving relationship with your spouse for your children. This is also where you need to show love for your mate, work ethic for the family, teach your children the things that you know etc. It doesn't hurt if you occasional remind them that men show love for family by doing things like working for a living or taking out the trash without being asked, doing the dishes your fair share of the time etc.

If you do this correctly, there is a much better chance that your children will end up choosing nice people for their mates rather than some drug addicted looser.

A father helps with the leadership of the family and demonstrates how to function in life. As your children age, let them see you and your spouse making decisions and include them in family discussions. Think of the real world education they get when they see you and your wife plan a budget when there are many competing financial interests.

Be involved with your family and I"m pretty sure that your wife will see you for what you really are worth.

reply to post by Wildbob77

A father typically works 40 or more hours per week to provide for his family.

I think the or more part is a problem.

My father used to work more like 80 hours per week. A lot of fathers get caught up in providing "things" for their family, and they forget to provide time. I almost fell into that trap myself, and if my second baby hadn't had health problems, I would probably still be working 7 days per week and missing all the time with in-laws and weekends and getting dressed for school (daycare) and tucking them in at night.

There is a delicate balance between being a good provider and being a good father.

We will never have all of the things we want, and there will always be more money and things to get, but we are extremely limited on quality time.

My wife told me once that she didn't care if we had to live in a cardboard box as long as we could keep our family together. She was absolutely right, and I gave up the corporate job and took a government job. For a few years we had to give up a lot of things, but the kids were young and they didn't know any better, and we are now living comfortably and we have plenty of time to spend together.

Remember that TIME is the only truly limited commodity. It is the most important thing we can spend!

Originally posted by nightbringr

I do not want a mindless automaton slaving away at home, cooking my meals and having my children, never with a word of complaint.

This drivel about housework (which must be done anyway) being slavery or some sort of life-threatening, treacherous thing is pure insanity....not to mention pathetic. I guess you'd see it better fit to live in a pig sty and for your kids to grow up on fattening fast food...? Feminist women who are gullible enough to buy into ridiculous rhetoric that is supposed to appeal to their emotions such as yours are the 'mindless automatons'. All they know how to do is repeat chants that they were indoctrinated with in liberal 'higher education' institutions (which seems to be your case as well). You can't get any more mindlessly robotic than that.

Originally posted by zarp3333
Are Husbands are appreciated by their wives less today than they were 30 - 40 years ago.

Not really sure, I wasn't married 30-40 years ago, but as they say the more things change the more they stay the same.

My take away was that from eight weeks into the development of a fetus, female brains are superior in that testosterone shrinks the communication and hearing centers in men while doubling the size of our sexual processing center.

This to me screams of pseudo-science trying to justify commonly held myths. It would be like saying during the eighth week of development the female fetus becomes interested in dresses and dolls, while the male fetus becomes interested in trucks and cowboys. "testosterone shrinks the communication and hearing centers" yeah, right, this sounds like a theory the women on The View might have in order to explain why their husbands never listen to them (I can just hear them saying "You know what I'm talking about girlfriends") when the real reason is probably because the men are just bored.

reply to post by zarp3333


Hi Zarp,

I can see where you might be coming from, but there are so many different elements to consider here, not least of which is cultural (i'm in the UK) , family history, life experience of yourself and your wife before you were married, how long you've been married, how old your kids are, how old you and your wife are, what are her friends like, single married, divorced and how that might affect your relationship etc. etc. etc., so you're only going to get generalisations to your questions i think, but i'll have a crack at it.

As it happens, my wife and i are both in our mid forties. We celebrated our 21st wedding anniversary today (well, yesterday now, as it's a.m. here in England now) after living together for 2 years.

We had both had long relationships with other partners before we met. So neither of us have been left wondering what a relationship with someone else would be like...you know? We both know.

We have both been completely monogamous since we met, we're both honest types, and when i make a promise it's important to me that i keep it if humanly possible, so no playing away from home or any of that stuff.

We don't lie to each other, neither of us would stand for it, we are honest, but not brutally so..

You know, 'does my arse look big in this?' would be met with, 'your arse would look great in a bin liner darling...let me see if i can find one in the kitchen cupboard while i'm throwing away that hideous crap you intend to wear' kind of thing. We keep it honest, but light.

We had our wild youthful adventures together, the boozing, the travelling, the drunken arguing and all that rubbish early on before we even thought about starting a family. To be honest, i was too selfish when i was younger, and wanted to enjoy my life first, but i also knew i wasn't really ready on any kind of emotional level to be a dad either in my twenties and early thirties. It kind of frightened me...the responsibility of it all.

By our mid thirties (wife is just a year and a bit ahead of me) we decided the time was right and we tried for kids...didn't happen for over 3 years, then we signed up for IVF. THE DAY BEFORE we were due to start with IVF, we found out my wife was pregnant! How about that!

Our second son took another 2 years to conceive, and here we are 6 years down the line (shot past like i cannot believe), with two beautiful kids, bringing them up with love and compassion and encouragement and being put straight when the really need to be, and we're both loving all of it to bits, the whole thing.

Yeah, course there are times when we feel like our heads are gonna explode! that's normal, but they are good, healthy kids and clever and funny too. We are so proud of them everyday.

Sex has dropped off since having them i will admit, attention is naturally lavished on bringing up our kids, and guiding them to be good people, but we still find time for ourselves when we're both not too shattered!

In my view, sex comes way down on the list for me now. It would be different if we didn't have the kids, i'm sure! I'd rather my wife was great with the kids now, than attend to my sexual wants. As i say, we still find time for each other in the bedroom, but we're mostly interested in being mum and dad now.

I show my kids a lot of affection and encouragement, i allow them to be kids, not mini versions of me, and i teach them that it's important to find their own opinions and not just accept mine or their mums or anyone else's, and make (within reason) decisions for themselves.

I'm loving being a dad...so far. Who know what the future will bring to us eh mate? Best to forget the niggling crap, and enjoy being with your family now while we can. They are growing up so fast i can't quite believe it...tomorrow, if i'm still here tomorrow, i'll look around and they'll be getting married themselves.

Don't let the little stuff make you miss the important stuff.

Good luck mate, i'm sure you're venting cos your pissed or something right? Chill, we're all in the same boat, it takes on water every now and then, but it's a great ride even with wet feet now and again isn't it.

All the best.

Originally posted by filosophia
"testosterone shrinks the communication and hearing centers" yeah, right, this sounds like a theory the women on The View might have in order to explain why their husbands never listen to them (I can just hear them saying "You know what I'm talking about girlfriends") when the real reason is probably because the men are just bored.

...yep - that "off switch" has nothing to do with hormones nor is it gender specific... when my SO and his cousins would start with their quantum physics crap stuff, it would instantly engage my off switch...

Originally posted by SirClem
I can relate. But, occasionally you have to actually "step out" to get some respect. I don't mean fool around. Maybe give the old lady a reason to think you might be. Have some lady friends that you knit with.
As for the kids, make them work. If the old lady gets in the way, give her something to do because she has too much time on her hands. But make the kids work, otherwise they will be totally worthless and bumming off of you until the bury you in a cheap casket.
Make the wife and kids miss you before you die.

Sorry, man...that sounds like a recipe for disaster, starting from the sobriquet 'the old lady'. I'd say let the wife and kids love you before you die...lots of time to miss you later on.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Hey BFFT...how are ya.

- learn to cook. And when you cook, clean your dishes as you go. If you can cook good food, and don't mind washing some dishes to reduce the mess, it reduces a womans stress considerably. Less stress = happy home.

Agreed mate, i do all the cooking and have done since we met 23 years ago.

I joke that we'd all starve otherwise, and that she's burn a salad, but it's not true. Wife just hates it, and i quite like it, so it works out great for us.

I do the shopping..well, we both do it together mostly, but being the 'chef of the house' i know what i need, but apart from idiots blocking isles with trollys at the supermarket, i quite enjoy that too.

I hate washing up, and a lot of the other chores but the Mrs doesn't mind that. I like DIY, she can't hold a screwdriver etc. etc. IT's all about sharing and helping each other out with either what you're good at, or like doing.

Works for us, and works for you too.

Nice one mate.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I hear that about the time thing...very true.

The family is the only thing worth anything. 'Things' are just that.

It's flashing past us right now, step back, downsize and enjoy it while we can.

Originally posted by Aeons
I'm not sure why anyone would model the behaviour of fictional parents, unless they have fictional children?

edit on 2011/8/31 by Aeons because: (no reason given)

I wasn't saying or suggesting that I or anyone else model themselves on hollywood's version of a father. Not today or 1955. I was simply trying to point out from a pop culture perspective how much the television version of a father has changed and for people to infer the question of whether or not it has had an effect on the respect fathers receive today relative to "the good old days."

What about the dad from Lost in Space?