A Question for Father/Husbands

I am looking for input of other married men with children to help me understand if I am suffering from unrealistic expectations with respect to my wife and kids and to further clarify if my recollections of my youth are also unrealistic.

Here's my first question based on my basic perception. Are Husbands are appreciated by their wives less today than they were 30 - 40 years ago. Sometimes I feel like if my paycheck would arrive in the checking account and there was a security system on the house, nobody would notice if moved.

The latest arrow that was slung at me came in the form of a New York Times bestseller, "The Female Brain" by Louann Brezendine. My take away was that from eight weeks into the development of a fetus, female brains are superior in that testosterone shrinks the communication and hearing centers in men while doubling the size of our sexual processing center.

As women age their brains are "marinated" in a cocktail of hormones that not only effects their behavior but the hard-wired physiology of the female brain. In their twenties and early thirties women are consumed with finding and pleasing a mate for the purpose of robbing them of gametes to make children.

In their forties, women have lost interest in pleasing men and focus their attention on nurturing their children. Now that most women work, men are becoming increasingly superfluous, even unnecessary.

I can hardly find an example of an intelligent father on any program that my teenage children watch. It seems to me that the "Father Knows Best" or "My Three Sons"' even mildly incapable "Courtship of Eddies's Father" figures have been replaced by annoying idiots that must be suffered by their clearly more devious children and savior mothers.

Please don't forget these are my impressions which may be off base and are meant to be generalizations used to identify perceived trends.

Expecting children to be moderately considerate certainly leads to resentments as do requests to pitch in with tasks that cannot be accomplished on line. Children seem to have a greater sense of entitlement for material possessions such as cell phones, Ipods, laptops, xboxes and rituals such as sweet sixteen parties or dinners at themed restaurants.

Afterwards the pleasure seems to be short-lived. Possesions that were lobbied for as absolute necessities are often misplaced, broken, lost or forgotten

There is a constant level of tension over what's to be expected of the kids. Help me out here. Am I simply suffering from the age old perception that "kids these days are lazy, unwilling to work hard and take everything for granted" or have things really changed?

Do other men feel like their most important contribution to the family was a source of viable sperm with a delivery method that cost less than invitro fertilization?

reply to post by zarp3333


With all due respect, and presumably being younger than yourself and with no children as of yet, I'd suggest attempting to work on your communications skills with your wife, I may not be a Father but I've got one; a great one in fact and after coming of age I base my life on trying to emulate his success.

Maybe not perfect, but no one is, but I certainly admire his principles and the way he loves his children.

My point? Maybe try and act as a better role model?

No disrespect intended but you did mention:

I can hardly find an example of an intelligent father on any program that my teenage children watch. It seems to me that the "Father Knows Best" or "My Three Sons"' even mildly incapable "Courtship of Eddies's Father" figures have been replaced by annoying idiots that must be suffered by their clearly more devious children and savior mothers

Maybe they should be watching and learning from their father, not from television...

Perhaps she is not the woman for you?

Maybe not what you want to hear, but people do change. At one time you might have both been the centre of each others lives, but now that is obviously is not the case. Have you spoke with her about your concerns? If so, did she listen to you and comment on how she feels, or did she brush it off as nothing?

Maybe it is time to evaluate your life and make some hard decisions. As you mention, women these days are not the average 50's housewife, and for that i am grateful. I do not want a mindless automaton slaving away at home, cooking my meals and having my children, never with a word of complaint. I want a real, honest wife that i love and appreciate and sometimes disagree with. If we one day disagree more than we agree and no longer enjoy the time we spend together, i know it is time to move on with my life. It may not be an easy thing, especially with children, but it is better than living with someone who doesnt appreciate me.

I am not a father nor husband but I wish to tell you of my experiences having recently (well 3 years) moved out of the home and reflecting on my fathers way of raising me.

Throughout my teens my father routinely asked for my help around the house and I resented him for it. Often coming to shouting matches. I just didn't understand the burden of working 8-5 mon-fri and coming home to dishes/garbage/laundry.

He also refused to buy me the latest/greatest products especially if they were superficial items (I'd have to buy them myself). However he would always help me out in purchases that were worth something such as.....tools for my project car, music lessons (drum), hockey equipment (even though i had a job and could by it myself) etc.

Once I moved out and now work 8-5 mon-fri and come back home to a less than clean house I can FINALLY understand my fathers position. If I could go back and help out I would and regret that I can't. I feel that I am a much better person from not being given everything under the sun as some of my friends (who were bought everything) are having a incredibly hard time starting out after leaving the home.

Best words I could say is to be tough on your kids, but always make sure they know you love them.

reply to post by Vardoger


You have a good Father then

You're right about the kids. I WANT I WANT I WANT, then they get and they throw it away and I WANT starts all over again.

As for being a couple, well the problems are usually always about money, sex, and kids, and not always in that order.

You need to sit down and discuss this, methinks.

Originally posted by zarp3333
Help me out here. Am I simply suffering from the age old perception that "kids these days are lazy, unwilling to work hard and take everything for granted" or have things really changed?
Do other men feel like their most important contribution to the family was a source of viable sperm with a delivery method that cost less than invitro fertilization?

A) As they mature into teens, kids recognise just how stoopid their parents actually are. Fortunately, they also observe how we get smarter as we age.
B) Women...beats me all to heck.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
A) As they mature into teens, kids recognise just how stoopid their parents actually are. Fortunately, they also observe how we get smarter as we age.
B) Women...beats me all to heck.

A.) As they mature into young adults they realise just how stoopid they were and how their parents were actually talking sense.

B.) I still don't understand women....

I guess it depends on how old you are in that it took this long to notice what has been happening.

I recall those older television shows that you mentioned. But I think it was somewhere maybe in the early 1980s that I recall a show -- I think it was called "Silver Spoons" -- that was somewhat more blatant in the idea of a father figure character who tended to be much less intelligent with the focus on the smart child. Other shows since then have expanded the theme of a stupid/bumbling father living with the smart wife and street-wise children.

The movement may have developed through the 60s and 70s following the Feminist movement and Sexual Revolution as well as the teen rebelliousness that attacked the fundamental family structure. I think the pro-homosexual movement also has a hand in this. The idea is to take away from the traditional definition of a family being a married husband and wife with children, with the husband/father being the spiritual/moral leader and role model for the family. I've seen the attempts to "redefine" what constitutes a family through the television shows, trying to call any collection of people living together who "cared for each other" a family unit.

I suspect it stems from attempts to disengage God from society in order to make allowances for previously objectionable activities to be accepted within mainstream society. Without a strong moral guide, everything becomes relative and acceptable within a person's own concept of what is acceptable. And everyone else is forced to accept it under the name of 'tolerance'.

It's gonna be alright.
You are the light to your children. It's normal for kids to have an extreme desire for something and then not care about it soon there after. I know for sure that they are learning and testing there own boundaries. Wife. I think all woman go through things in life and react certain ways, change, not change..etc. You are probably doing the same a little bit too. I would continue being a force for your children then REALLY understand that even in this crazy place we live in that it is going to be alright..anything and everything THEN get happy, get Psyched, treat your wife and your self like high school kids and do some fun stuff. Get kinky or what ever, hiking but let it roll dude. Roll away the Dew. It's what movies and fairy-tales are all about, the good thing and that's what your kids would want you to do. I'm married with a 2-1/2 year old. My marriage is VERY rocky and weird and at times can really straight piss me off but hey. My Daughter so far has been exceptional. Good luck.

reply to post by Vardoger


That was a powerful post coming from a young man. I imagined hearing it from my son in the future. I try my best to help with things like fishing rods and hunting supplies.

I didn't mean to necessarily omit women or young men. I'm just looking for others' impressions.

Women don't need men as much as they used to anymore (especially in the west).

So, here is a different way to look at it...if you are with a woman whom does not need you for anything, and you already have kids raised and whatnot, then she is there because she wants to be with you. How can that be less respectful.

In the past, a man couldn't know if a woman respected him..because she needed him, be it for the security of a paycheck, or even (go back far enough) the ability to maintain property and such...back then, even if you were 60 years old, you never were too sure if your wifey even liked you...todays age is based not on need, but want...and want is far more valueable than need.

So, sure...relationships today are a bit more outspoken, a bit more demanding, and a bit less "slavelike" in its roles, but in exchange, you have core honest with each other. seems a good tradeoff to me.

Originally posted by Vardoger
I am not a father nor husband but I wish to tell you of my experiences having recently (well 3 years) moved out of the home and reflecting on my fathers way of raising me.

Throughout my teens my father routinely asked for my help around the house and I resented him for it. Often coming to shouting matches. I just didn't understand the burden of working 8-5 mon-fri and coming home to dishes/garbage/laundry.

He also refused to buy me the latest/greatest products especially if they were superficial items (I'd have to buy them myself). However he would always help me out in purchases that were worth something such as.....tools for my project car, music lessons (drum), hockey equipment (even though i had a job and could by it myself) etc.

Once I moved out and now work 8-5 mon-fri and come back home to a less than clean house I can FINALLY understand my fathers position. If I could go back and help out I would and regret that I can't. I feel that I am a much better person from not being given everything under the sun as some of my friends (who were bought everything) are having a incredibly hard time starting out after leaving the home.

Best words I could say is to be tough on your kids, but always make sure they know you love them.

Great post.
Thank you.

I am unsure what it was a just read.

So i am going to answer a few things here...

...yes, society has downplayed mens roles in the west. We are made to feel stupid and detached. It likely was an element of the womens lib movement, whereas women were made to feel empowered by the often progressive TV moguls. As well, it may have just been a trend that touched a few nerves and created more revenue. For whatever reason, you are right. On the same note, parents are being treated the same way, on the whole, with most childrens programming. You focus on empowering your target audience. Simple marketing.

...me personally? Hell no. If i am being made irrelevant it is because i am a lousy husband/father. My DUTY is to remain relevant. This led me to playing tennis (poorly) while i was 450lbs, because my oldest got interested in tennis. I play Call of Duty (poorly) because my youngest plays it. I watch crappy movies and TV shows because it interests my wife.

It isn't their job to like me. It is my job to be likable. It isn't their job to approach and include me. It is my job to be approachable and include myself.

Because I will do whatever it takes to stay relevant to my kids, I am still very relevant to them. Society can do whatever they want, but I can still control the culture in my house the old fashioned way: by actually working at it.

My father was less than perfect, had a bad temper and drank too much. He absolutly hated "Father Knows Best" and "My Three Sons" because he said that those kind of perfect fathers don't exist and those TV shows are brainwashing us into thinking that people are supposed to be perfect. He believed them to be impossible role models.

Modern TV seems to promote mouthy, bratty kids and condecending wives, who know more than daddy.

Life is full of uncomfortable realities, the sooner your kids figure out that you're not perfect, and that you love them, things will come back around. My daughter explained to me, that it was her realization that I wasn't perfect, and wasn't meant to be, that dispelled her disillusion and expectation of me, and an intellectual relationship with me began.

I have been divorced twice. I would say the reason would be lack of communication and empathy. If you love your wife, try to work it out. Tell her how you feel and she should do the same. Find common ground and move forward.

Good luck to you....I feel your pain.

reply to post by windword


This is the point I'm making, no one is perfect however parents try to create that illusion in front of their children with the best intentions, when they reach an age where they realise that "nope mummy or daddy ain't perfect but they they treated me with their best intentions" then usually then also realise that they ain't perfect and maybe should have opened their ear holes a little sooner.

Originally posted by davidchin
I guess it depends on how old you are in that it took this long to notice what has been happening.

I recall those older television shows that you mentioned. But I think it was somewhere maybe in the early 1980s that I recall a show -- I think it was called "Silver Spoons" -- that was somewhat more blatant in the idea of a father figure character who tended to be much less intelligent with the focus on the smart child. Other shows since then have expanded the theme of a stupid/bumbling father living with the smart wife and street-wise children.

The movement may have developed through the 60s and 70s following the Feminist movement and Sexual Revolution as well as the teen rebelliousness that attacked the fundamental family structure. I think the pro-homosexual movement also has a hand in this. The idea is to take away from the traditional definition of a family being a married husband and wife with children, with the husband/father being the spiritual/moral leader and role model for the family. I've seen the attempts to "redefine" what constitutes a family through the television shows, trying to call any collection of people living together who "cared for each other" a family unit.

I suspect it stems from attempts to disengage God from society in order to make allowances for previously objectionable activities to be accepted within mainstream society. Without a strong moral guide, everything becomes relative and acceptable within a person's own concept
of what is acceptable. And everyone else is forced to accept it under the name of 'tolerance'.

Your response highlights the many perspectives that I have considered the problem fro
I would describe myself as a devout believer in God with a liberal approach to Christianity.

I wonder if this is part of a general break down as referenced in the biblical end times.

On a lighter note maybe this is simply a cultural trend and as a 50 year old I am simply behind the times as middle aged men tend to be since being "with it" holds little importance to me.

On a metaphysical level references abound on the cyclical nature of patriarchal versus matriarchal cycles that last 13,000 years.

The reason I'm not simply chalking it up to me being a whiny bitch feeling sorry for myself is Ive heard other men my age mention a similar feeling.

Originally posted by zarp3333
On a lighter note maybe this is simply a cultural trend and as a 50 year old I am simply behind the times as middle aged men tend to be since being "with it" holds little importance to me.

Let's face it, as kids get older and they try to make their own ways and become their own selves, you do lose some relevance. But if you've equipped them with your values, and fortified them with your love, that become part of their own essence. Beyond that, not much you can do except be there as a moral beacon, until they settle into their lives as adults. Lord knows, you can't tell them squat,,,but it's gratifying to hear "Dad, you were right".

Meanwhile...as far as your wife goes...people grow, but don't need to grow apart. It's all about concentrating on (and nurturing) what you have in common, as opposed to what you don't.

Most important is to realise that your thoughts and concerns on the subject are neither uncommon or insurmountable. Best of luck...
JC

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I like you.

I had to say it. I don't always agree with you, but I likes ya. I suspect you are a fun husband and daddy.

reply to post by zarp3333


I have given up finding a "good" woman. Heck, the last four would not make me a sandwich, nor get me a beer when I was watching the game and even had the audacity of wandering out of the kitchen...with shoes on, no less, without being asked!

I actually was asked to help with cleaning around the house once....once.

What's the world comin' to?

What? It's humor! I don't actually believe that, but I do love the battle between the sexes. Keeps life interesting.

Back on topic though, try to find something that interests the entire family...it helps facilitate communication. Which is always the first step.