Football Players Penalized for pointing towards Heaven.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


I agree with your assessment there, but I wonder what your position is on this particular topic (if I missed it earlier, I'm sorry). I find it utterly ridiculous that such a gesture from a high school kid could possibly affect people in that way. Do other people's actions hold that much power in some minds?

That was the post concerning my feelings about the issue.

post by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

That was the post concerning my feelings about the issue.

post by traditionaldrummer

 

Star for you, thank you! Sorry I missed it the first time. I agree with you 1000%; this has grown completely out of proportion.

Originally posted by Annee
It has been a rule for quite sometime. All players are aware of it.

Fans pay to see a game played. They do not pay to witness God.

Except people are not robots. We do not work for your entertainment mechanically. The guy expressed his feelings in a non-obstructive way.

Did you really just complain about seeing something completely harmless that you didn't like?

You're in for a rough ride in life, kid.

People who cause controversy like this are a sad reminder of the times we live in.

reply to post by tracehd1


I am Muslim and I find this absurd,

This world is doomed because of weak minded people and rules like this, next you will be mad and sensative to the fact I drive a 430 Scudaria Ferrari and it hurts your feelings so I should only be able to drive during the hours of 330am to 630am when your worshiping satan and wont see me...right...?

whether its football or any other competitive sport each player can thank whatever god they want to. And those of you out there that preach this separation of church and state crap, this has not become separation of church and football...??? WTF... and you atheists really care about this...?

why your sensitive tender little atheist brains or hearts cannot take someone pointing in the air thanking whatever god he wishes...?

if an atheist wants to point down after a goal I could care less...it does not bother or offend me...

first off let me say i don't know the rules for american football. that being said i could understand a rule about grandstanding that goes on for too long like say several minutes. just nailing the team for making gestures is stupid, it's a sport, the players are all high on adrenalin. now i could see if he was giving the opposing team the finger or something but to penalize a guy for putting his hand in the air is ridiculous.

funny thing is i never thought that pointing up after a win or really good shot was about god. heck i do it all the time, it's almost a natural reaction to do it. i have never done that gesture in ANY relation to god, it's a "i'm (or we are) number one", or even "look at me how cool" ect. i have also seen non religious people i know do the same gesture, even some i know who are pagan and not christian. i even remember giant sponge hands that were handed out at hocky and baseball ect the was a hand with finger pointing up saying "XXXXX is #!". this gesture has nothing to do with religion. yes there are some who will pray or sing holding one hand in the air. but it is not something that is DEFINATLY RELIGIOUS.

just another case of people pulling insult from something that may or may not be what they think. is it just me or are some people way over sensitive to what other people do that has nothing to do with them in the first place. if you don't like something do your best to ignore it. it's not like when someone points to the sky those who don't will fall over dead or anything.

you know it's almost amusing with all the calling of hate that atheists do against religion, the "religion" that really seems to need to be mussled ARE the atheists. those who are so convinced there is not a god that they feel they have to extinguish other religions, generally for the good of all. how is that really any different then what people always whine about when it comes to religion in the first place. we are constantly reminded that religion causes problems by every one being the ONLY true religion. and that we should all follow said religion. thus we get the crusades and things like the inquisition. not to mention "convert or die" that has gone on in the past. sad thing is atheists seem to want to do the same, "religion is a blight that needs to be removed from humanity". seriously how is this any different then? atheism is actually a back handed religion all of it's own. sure it isn't really organized. the god is NO GOD, but it seems to behave just like most other religions. the fact that YOU and NO GOD are right. and everyone else's religion is wrong. think about it.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by gncnew
ROFL... what is an "Atheist Symbol" ??? how can you have a symbol for believing in "nothing"?

Just my opinion (since you're fond of those) - I think you believe very much in God and are very angry and/or scared of him and what it means to you... so you fight it for all you're worth and claim to wave a flag of "Atheist" when all that really means is "Denial".

One thing I've noticed about this website is that almost nobody here has even the most remote idea as to what atheism is.

You are yet another.

I've also noticed I spend a lot of time trying to correct these misunderstandings.

I failed to recognize the obvious: that nitwits are unlikely to ever learn.

Atheist is the rejection of belief in deity. So please explain to me how this "nitwit" is wrong is laughing at the idea of an Atheist symbol?

Originally posted by gncnew

Atheist is the rejection of belief in deity. So please explain to me how this "nitwit" is wrong is laughing at the idea of an Atheist symbol?

You claimed atheism was [paraphrased] "belief in nothing".

Then it was all a case of denial, that atheists just fear/hate god.

You haven't the slightest clue what atheism is and by attempting to ridicule them with a puerile understanding you emphasize your ignorance rather than your straw man victory.

Maybe you will take the time to educate yourself to prevent a similar situation in the future. Or you can just ad-hom me since that's a lot easier and more emotionally satisfying.

I can't help but laugh at ignorant Christians pigeonholing all Atheists as intolerant jerks in this thread. How would you all like it if I grouped you in the same category as the members of the Westboro Baptist Church? You wouldn't like it at all so stop being ignorant and grow up long enough to at least have a decent discussion.

Now, in my personal opinion there is nothing wrong with pointing at the sky in celebration. First of all, just assuming it's a religious gesture is just ignorant. There could be hundreds of reasons for such an act (like losing a close friend... just like this story). And even if it had been religious, so what? If someone pointing at the sky offends you then you need to check yourself and dig deep inside to find out what kind of emotional problems you have within yourself. If something as small as this offends you then I'd suggest not turning on your tv, getting on the internet, or even stepping outside. To make sure you're never offended just stay in your little bubble until the end of your days.

You wanna point towards the sky to honor your dead friend/colleague/brother?

Fine by me.

If you like Jesus and his cohorts that's fine by me, so long as you aren't pushing your faith on me. Especially not on a sunday McMorn.

Point all you want. All that's up there is space to me, so go nuts. Let 'em point.

Almost forgot, I'm a strong agnostic btw.

reply to post by tracehd1


So they are saying they can't pray or anything? I guess that's a nuisance.

Originally posted by Annee
It has been a rule for quite sometime. All players are aware of it.

Fans pay to see a game played. They do not pay to witness God.

If the game could be considered allegorical of life, it might be said however, that God paid to witness the game along with us, in which case there's no use pointing in any one particular direction.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by TheRemedial
reply to post by Annee

 

The fact that you find a person POINTING offensive is just stark crazy and with that level of intolerance you would fit in perfectly into any oppressive society. Offensive to the other team and patrons, give me a break...And they bloody well wonder why thing's are the way it is in this society. It's any wonder we get anything done.

I have the right to my opinion - - as do you.

You tell me how fans and media would react if a player - in the same situation - held up an Atheist symbol.

These type situations - - don't swing both ways.

An Atheist symbol? I thought atheism was just non-belief. How can non-belief have it's own religious gestures? I realize now why you don't like the gesture. He thought he was pointing at his friend. You thought he was pointing at a God you don't believe in. Come to think of it, if you don't believe God is there, then why is pointing at the sky offensive? Because according to your view he's not REALLY pointing at God.

^^^

It just never stops.

Let's contact the Buddhists. This thread seems to be the sound of no brains thinking.

Im from Texas, the football state, and Im very involved in the high School team, my sons teams and our Alumni team. Needless to say I play, and watch, a boatload of Football.

SO here's a couple point sthat might explain the referee's position during the game. I dont care what the league guys say, they matter about as much as an ant on a tank. Its all about the Officials on the field, and the players.

In the NFL - Players are seen doing dances, backflips, etc etc every time they score. In College Football, this is much more restricted. In High School, you had better not even spike that damn ball, seriously.

What happened here was there was a touchdown scored. people started celebrating. The young man in question, while doing nothing wrong on a offensive or religious level, continued his celebration with a gesture towards the sky. it is very likely that this gesture was just the last thing the ref needed to see before calling something akin to excessive celebration. Im not sure exactly what the call was, but if it wasnt excessive celebration, then the referee probably made one of the most frivolous calls in the history of Football. Seriously. A call for excessive celebration is not unheard of in High School in fact, because of the age of the boys, their general attitudes, and their dominant play style, it is a call used pretty often. There is no other call in the ref's rule book on ANY league level that covers this type of thing, so making any other call would've been senseless.

Like I said, I dont know exactly what call the Ref made, but as someone who is really into football, I can say that for one certain call he may have been justified, for anything else, he was jsut being a controlling a-hole.

Originally posted by addygrace

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by TheRemedial
reply to post by Annee

 

The fact that you find a person POINTING offensive is just stark crazy and with that level of intolerance you would fit in perfectly into any oppressive society. Offensive to the other team and patrons, give me a break...And they bloody well wonder why thing's are the way it is in this society. It's any wonder we get anything done.

I have the right to my opinion - - as do you.

You tell me how fans and media would react if a player - in the same situation - held up an Atheist symbol.

These type situations - - don't swing both ways.

An Atheist symbol? I thought atheism was just non-belief. How can non-belief have it's own religious gestures? I realize now why you don't like the gesture. He thought he was pointing at his friend. You thought he was pointing at a God you don't believe in. Come to think of it, if you don't believe God is there, then why is pointing at the sky offensive? Because according to your view he's not REALLY pointing at God.

Ok, let's make it make more sense and say it was some kind of Odinal rune or something akin to a Paganistic religion. Oh yeah, that wouldnt have flown at all and everyone would be calling for the kids rejection from the league. but givin props to God is okay. I hardly think this is an issue where we can have a double standard as such and still coexist. Either way, for my actual opinion on the REAL issue here, which was the call made by the officials, then read my prev post.

This is an example of the real issue in the disparity between religion and atheism in this country. I am an atheist as I have already stated. I have no problem with someone practicing religion if that is their belief. I don't want it shoved down my throat. Having said that, I also don't feel atheist or agnostics have a right to deny someone the ability to express their religion. I also don't agree with removing god from our court proceedings, national anthem, or pledge of allegiance.

Now some will say how can you allow god to be in those things if you are an atheist? Well, quite simply I am also an American, and I cannot ignore the fact that our country was founded upon christian values. These documents/songs, etc. are part of our heritage and traditions. I am not offended by them as such. Too many people try and force their views on others simply because they disagree. I will defend my position, and may even debate it to an extent. I will not, however compromise the traditions and values that my country espouses and holds dear. I am a patriot, and a defender of the Constitution. If my founding fathers thought enough of it to include it into our Constitution, then who am I to deny others the right to do the same?

As an example, I go to church on Christmas eve because it is a tradition in my wife's family. I don't believe, but her family does and I am not going to ruin their tradition just because I don't believe. I will go and be entertained for an hour or so and go back to my house and enjoy my evening. I let my kids decide for themselves as well. I don't force atheism on them, and my wife doesn't force religion on them. If they ask questions, I answer as best I can and tell them that is a decision they must make for themselves.

I bet if the other team were non Christians they would have been aloowed to do a whole flaming ceremony.

Originally posted by bodcausailor
reply to post by Annee

 

Alright a comment like this is enough to get a rise from the sailor. We as parents should thank god everyday for the gift of our children.

If I have no belief in god. Why would I thank god?

I do believe in "People are their Heart". In other words - - who they are from the inside - - which reflects on their acceptance of others and treatment of others.

FACT: A violation of established rules occurred.

Who exactly is taking this as a slight against god - - and asking for exemption?

Not me.

Originally posted by TrixXxtaR
Football is a joke nowadays anyway!!

One example, Manchester City. They were nobodies going nowhere until a rich arab came along and splashed some cash around allowing them to get their hands on some of the best players in the world. Now? They are at the top end of the table with the possibility of actualy winning the Premier League. It's seriously annoying because it all comes down to who has the biggest wallet.

My cousin played college football.

He said there is no loyalty. You play for who stuffs the "gift shoes" with the most money.

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Why is this minor event making headlines?

What is the real reason this particular event is making headlines?

Be honest.