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Gay Malaysian "pastor" gets married.

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posted on Aug, 31 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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Dr. Collins succinctly reviewed the research on homosexuality and offers the following:

"An area of particularly strong public interest is the genetic basis of homosexuality. Evidence from twin studies does in fact support the conclusion that heritable factors play a role in male homosexuality. However, the likelihood that the identical twin of a homosexual male will also be gay is about 20% (compared with 2-4 percent of males in the general population), indicating that sexual orientation is genetically influenced but not hardwired by DNA, and that whatever genes are involved represent predispositions, not predeterminations."

Dr. Collins noted that environment—particularly childhood experiences—as well as the role of free will and choice affect us all in profound ways. As researchers discover increasing levels of molecular detail about inherited factors that underlie our personalities, it’s critical that such data be used to illuminate the issues, not provide support to ideologues.

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and here is another interesting finding




Extensive research from Sweden, Finland, Denmark, and the United States reveals that homosexuality is primarily environmentally induced. Specifically, social and/or family factors, as well as permissive environments which affirm homosexuality, play major environmental roles in the development of homosexual behavior.

Twin study investigations of homosexuality were recently conducted in both Sweden and Finland. Such twin studies compare rates of homosexual behavior between different sibling groups who share varying degrees of genetic similarity (i.e., identical twins versus non-identical twins). By comparing such rates, twin studies help sort out the extent to which homosexual behavior is genetic and/or environmental. For instance, if homosexuality is genetic, then in cases where one identical twin is homosexual the co-twin should be homosexual nearly 100% of the time because identical twins share 100% of their genes.

But that is not what these two large-scale Scandinavian studies found. Both studies revealed that when one identical twin was homosexual the other twin was homosexual only 10% or 11% of the time. Such findings indicate that homosexuality is not genetically determined.

Instead of genetic factors, these Scandinavian studies concluded that unique environmental factors play the largest role in the development of homosexual behavior. The question as to which specific environmental factors contribute to homosexuality was not answered by these studies although some conclusions are offered by Danish and American research data to be discussed later in this article.

[A]lthough the Swedish and Finnish twin studies are among the best to date, they still have wide margins of error. In fact, the margins of error are so wide it remains entirely possible that genetic factors play no role in the development of homosexuality. That remains to be determined, but what has been resolved is that the primary factor in the development of homosexuality is environmental.

Social and cultural norms, as well as legal regulations, influence human behavior including sexual behavior. So not surprisingly, as the United States and other Western Countries have become increasingly pro-homosexual—socially, politically, and legally—they have experienced an upward trend in the number of individuals engaging in homosexual behavior.

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There you have it. Studies have shown it's environmental factors and not genetics. Even Dr. Collins of the Human Genome Project says environmental and childhood experiences as well as choice play a role.

The evidence is against the genetic cause which is so beaten like a drum by the media. Eventually the lie will come out that it's not genetics but a persons environment and the choices they make that turn them gay.




posted on Aug, 31 2011 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX
So, the whole conversation to me isn't about what god wishes, but rather what some ancient warlords wished.

I can see how someone could come to that conclusion but then if that was all they were worried about then they would just have some inclusion to the rule. For instance after you have 5 children you could then do what you wanted since you served your purpose in producing off-spring. Of course there's the whole thing about the structure of the family unit and the amount of resources needed to raise children to adulthood that we can't even begin to touch here without going way off in a side alley. In general I don't think that this specific rule would exist as an absolute law in this fashion just for the sole reason of the creation of offspring.


Originally posted by SaturnFX
I think if you search yourself (the kingdom of god is within you..and all that), you will find the answer to this question far more clearly than a book can give you...does a deity care about who I love? Try and seperate egotistical judgement based on your training and ask the core moral question


Is homosexuality a "greater" sin? I don't know that this is the truth but the point that the OP is making and alluding to is that a church is accepting a leader with an openly skewed view of the Bible. It's not as if we expect pastors to be perfect. If you looked close enough you could find a fault with all of them or any one of us. The bigger issue here is not the specific sin but the fact that he openly defies laws in the Bible while he's in a leadership position. Regardless of the book that defines the rules or the group you're leading, you can't be a good leader of an organization if you openly challenge the rules.

Imagine the leader of PETA owning a Morton's steak house or a fur coat factory. Neither are immoral but it's a bit of a slap in the face of your followers if you try to challenge what the group's core rules about animal cruelty if you openly subscribe to things listed as detestable. Christians have every right to be offended by this scenario so regardless of your belief in the validity of the Bible I would think you would realize how odd this scenario is.



We may not see eye to eye, but hell, if we did, the conversations probably wouldn't be as interesting anyhow. So, cheers.

Right. We would all have the same user name. "Agent Smith".



posted on Aug, 31 2011 @ 02:17 PM
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Actually, I talked myself into a circle.

1) I don't believe the bible is the word of god...not all of it anyhow (clearly)...
2) This subject is about a preacher teaching the bible as the word of god

Yes, the bible does clearly state gay people are gay (paraphrasing), so even though I personally think I am making a greater point, my overall point is totally off topic and will stop interjecting things. Yes, the biblical version of a deity is a bit of a bigot and if you are going to become a leader of the religion, you really need to step in line with what is pretty black and white.

So, I admit in this case, I am wrong...not about the points I was bringing up, but the relevance to the subject. carry on



posted on Aug, 31 2011 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33

Christ over ruled the dietary law. Christians aren't bound by Jewish Kosher law.


Yes jews and muslims are. curious.


Jews and Muslims aren't Christians.


Wanted to chime in on this

Christians are sort of like jews with some extra bits. muslims are christians 2.0...they are all worshipping the same god, the same prophets (well, a christian acknowledges moses, a muslim acknowledges moses and jesus).

So, they sort of are christians...in a way...meaning they all go to the same guy in the end (theoretically)



posted on Aug, 31 2011 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33

Christ over ruled the dietary law. Christians aren't bound by Jewish Kosher law.


Yes jews and muslims are. curious.


Jews and Muslims aren't Christians.


Wanted to chime in on this

Christians are sort of like jews with some extra bits. muslims are christians 2.0...they are all worshipping the same god, the same prophets (well, a christian acknowledges moses, a muslim acknowledges moses and jesus).

So, they sort of are christians...in a way...meaning they all go to the same guy in the end (theoretically)


The views on God are different in all three of the religions.

Judaism = God is singular, non-corporeal, good and evil come from God. After death people that aren't pure enough go through a purification process before they can get closer to God. No Hell.

Christianity = God is the Trinity Father, Son (God in the Flesh), and Holy Spirit, evil comes from Satan. Believe you have to accept Jesus as Lord God to be saved. Every knee will bow down at Christ on Judgement Day. Non-Christians will be cast into Hell.

Islam = God is singular, non-corporeal, view Jesus as only a prophet, evil comes from Satan. Believes your good works have to out way your bad deeds, also have to accept Allah and Muhammad as his Prophet. They also believe Jesus will come back and convert people to Islam. Non-Muslims or ones who reject the faith will be cast into Hell.

Those are some major differences.



posted on Aug, 31 2011 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33
Judaism = God is singular, non-corporeal, good and evil come from God. After death people that aren't pure enough go through a purification process before they can get closer to God. No Hell.

Christianity = God is the Trinity Father, Son (God in the Flesh), and Holy Spirit, evil comes from Satan. Believe you have to accept Jesus as Lord God to be saved. Every knee will bow down at Christ on Judgement Day. Non-Christians will be cast into Hell.

Islam = God is singular, non-corporeal, view Jesus as only a prophet, evil comes from Satan. Believes your good works have to out way your bad deeds, also have to accept Allah and Muhammad as his Prophet. They also believe Jesus will come back and convert people to Islam. Non-Muslims or ones who reject the faith will be cast into Hell.

Those are some major differences.


Toe-may-toe, Toe-mah-toe.

What was Jesus? oh...he was a jew..so, there you have it. the one true religion is judism


Or...should we be following peter and paul's creation...hmm. Anyhow, if memory serves me right, getting into heaven is a cakewalk..just follow the commandments to the best of your ability, or just condense it to the 3 golden rules as according to jesus...love neighbor, love self, love god. so...ya, all this is a moot point anyhow with the shellfish and the gayness and rock music and beard trimming, etc...follow commandments and the 3 generals and your in.



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