To those who say that Rand advocated the elite:

If you actually were to read atlas shrugged, you would clearly see that the villainous moochers that the author and hero condemn ARE THE ELITE who do nothing but live on the hard working men and women of the world and do everything that they can to rob them of their success. True, hank rearden was a wealthy business man but was ultimately cheated out of years of hard work and investment to support the incompetent elitist agenda.

What was supposed to be represented was a situation like enron, where the bad guys are the ones who took what was not theirs, not the other way around...

And to the idiot that said, "I would never read those books...", that statement that concluded your rant is the logical equivalent to me saying , "I will never watch the news..." and then voicing strong opinions on a breaking news thread... Please stop talking, I'm embarrassed for you.

True, the story was not completely correct in its depiction of the real world, but that's why you find it in the fiction section. Show me a philosophy that is mutually beneficial for all of mankind and I will live by it for the rest of my life and thank you everyday for doing so.

I think Rand just was not seeing clearly because of her background- she went to an extreme. I think balance is necessary. All the philosophers that focused on personal freedom and power to the extreme were just as "off" as those that focus upon self sacrifice, selflessness, in service of the collective.

I think America has become a pretty accurate manifestation of the values Rand held, and the problems she did not foresee have become manifest. The current technological world and global market has made things much more complex than she could have imagined.

One thing I percieve is that the self centered ego which becomes accustomed to being individualized to a point of lack of empathy and their own social needs (which is what happens when you are only tuned into asking yourself "what do I want?" ), means that more moochers are created.

Also, the more the manual working class is de-valued as a role in the society, less people are motivated to step into it. You lose an important resource. I always wondered about Rands ideal hidden society the intellos ran off to, and how it was built, with only engineers and architects to design the buidlings, but no workers to build them? Who did the daily sewage and trash work? Who weaved the cloth and sewed the clothes they wore? Who did the dirty work, the physical work, the work that would use up each day and leave the body using all the calories and the mind less sharp over time?

I guess we thought we could replace the need for those people with machines. Problem is, as I see it, not everyone is born for being an intellectual leader. And although some may say that is not being PC, I would retort that if you see the true value of being more physically able than intellectual, then you wouldn't say that.

I can converse and contemplate all kinds of ideas, sometimes rather complex, and yet I have only admiration for my neighbors who work the land, have animals they know how to raise and slaughter, know how to build their house with stones, and are always working out there. But they are ignorant, intellectually.
But if we were to lose our electricity tomorrow (EMP attack, for example, big earthquake or major catastrophy) guess who'd be in power then??? I'd be begging them for a job on their farm in exchange for a little food. (my work wouldn't be worth much seeing as I haven't the experience, the muscle memory or mass, or physical endurance they have).
Their DNA would be more likely to continue on than would mine.

*****************************

Let's please avoid the personal attacks. Concentrate on the topic, and not each other.

Thanks.

*****************************

Originally posted by RRokkyy

Originally posted by Amaterasu


So, My point is this: IF We can wrest this technology from Them, We can free Ourselves to each live as Hume chooses. ("Hume" is a genderless pronoun for Human Being.)

edit on 8/31/2011 by Amaterasu because: missed word

So *&^(())%% publish the blueprints for this "IMAGINARY TECHNOLOGY" already.

[sigh] *I* can't. *I* was a toddler and did not grasp the tech, just the implications. What WE should do - to eliminate poverty and see Our Human race shine - is DEMAND it out of black ops. My dad is dead - and He was faithful to His oaths. I doubt He would talk if He was alive.

Call it "imaginary" all You want. The fact is that electrogravitics is DOCUMENTED (see Secrets of Antigravity Propulsion) though items released through the FOI act. I know what I know, and it matters not one whit whether YOU believe it.

Ayn Rand was a saint. She saw the rot that was holding down the best people of our country. People didn't know it then but are finding out now that she was the second coming of jesus.

Originally posted by UnknownSoldier
Ayn Rand was a saint. She saw the rot that was holding down the best people of our country. People didn't know it then but are finding out now that she was the second coming of jesus.

I presume this to be tongue-in-cheek...?

She was naive and lacked a certain degree of economic understanding.

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by UnknownSoldier
Ayn Rand was a saint. She saw the rot that was holding down the best people of our country. People didn't know it then but are finding out now that she was the second coming of jesus.

I presume this to be tongue-in-cheek...?

She was naive and lacked a certain degree of economic understanding.

Ayn Rand was opposed to economic statism. How well is that going these days? The world economy is collapsing onto itself. The mainstream economists were wrong while the Austrian economists predicted the housing market crash. The only people who are naive are those who think the stock market is a safe place to invest your money.

Originally posted by filosophia
Ayn Rand was opposed to economic statism. How well is that going these days? The world economy is collapsing onto itself. The mainstream economists were wrong while the Austrian economists predicted the housing market crash. The only people who are naive are those who think the stock market is a safe place to invest your money.

I think You misunderstand My position. You seem to think My idea of a solution is "economic statism," when My solution runs quite another direction from either the ideal of every Human earning Hume's own way honestly and being compensated for it in the form of money - which is ludicrous to envision happening with the lure of money and the encouragement to love it rampant in Our society.

No, it's not good to have "economic statism," nor is it good to expect good out of the soil in which the root of all evil grows (as Ayn did). The solution is to add what money represents (meaningful energy expended), thereby eliminating the need for it and ridding the planet of poverty. This would entail breaking electrogravitics, and other methods of drawing on this plenum of energy We swim in, out of black ops.

They (TPTB) fear that more than most anything. They would retain Their lifestyle - but not Their power over Others. And it is the power over Others that inebriates Them; it is a drug, that money/power/energy, and like junkies, They will go to any length to keep Their drug supply flowing. So wresting the tech from black ops will not be easy.

Anyway... My thoughts.