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Survey Results: Origins and Evolution

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posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by KingJames1337
 


Still not really getting it, and how do you know the missing parts of that stone don't say "A novel, based on Noah"?

I mean that's kind of what the book of Judith may have been. Hell, even Enoch even.

If it's incomplete, especially in the beginning, how can you ever know?




posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by KingJames1337
 


AYAH!
you keep mentioning him. figured it out yet?


i have done extensive research on abzu. particularly tiamat and abzu. abzu was the egyptian nun. the biblical abyss and bottomless pit. the lake of fire. and the eye of ra. it was the name of the heavenly gate in eridu way before enuma elis turned abzu into a guy married to tiamat, the dragon goddess of creation. sitchin picked up on the hatchet job that is marduk's entry into the historical account (enuma elis) and assumed this was the source of monotheism, as marduk had taken credit for all the exploits of the gods before him. he claimed he created the universe, he created humans, he did this and did that, things we find out later, we're all actions of enlil and enki.

well the trick with these old texts is to consider them all to be telling a similar story from slightly different perspectives. once you realize what enuma elish is doing to the prior history, it's easy to continue learning from it, but the tricky point is learning the prior history in its correct context and that's where all the arguments are.

for example, i firmly believe the abzu is babel, and i don't mean the tower, i mean the gate of the gods. the KA.DINGIR.RA
and that as such, it generated tiamat and that tiamat was not a female dragon but a wormhole. in effect, abzu + tiamat = a star gate artificially generating a wormhole. when abzu died, tiamat was generated by kingu instead. (compare the story of what tiamat creates after she partners with kingu instead, with the story in revelation 9) as such, it was equivalent to the gates of eden and the gate of mount mashu, which you can read about in.....i think it's tablet XI of the epic of gilgamesh, which is yet another retelling of the older stories.

how the wormhole came to be known as a dragon god of creation is this:


Google Video Link


edit on 3-9-2011 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 09:29 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


I don't think it is based on Noah because it(apparently) predates Noah 2150 BC but what you say about it being incomplete is true, I don't know what the entirety of the story is but we have to go from what we have.



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by undo
 

I took it that Tiamat and Abzu were not real people and It seems to be coming into place but who is Ayah?



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by KingJames1337
reply to post by undo
 

I took it that Tiamat and Abzu were not real people and It seems to be coming into place but who is Ayah?


They were real things but not what enuma elish claimed. That text took 2 objects and deified them. It has created all kinds of confusion. For example, Sitchin thought enuma elish was saying the earth was tiamat (the planet earth that is) before it was struck by another heavenly object, splitting it into two pieces, one of which is the moon and the other which is the our current earth and he tried to prove this using astronomers current belief about how our earth formed. While it may be true that the earth was split in two, it was not tiamat, i think the ancient scribes mixed up the god of creation with the method used to create. in effect, they started calling the thing that creates the galaxies (super massive black holes) the god of creation, not realizing it wasn't an entity, it was the method of creation, and that it came in varoius sizes, some natural, some artificial.

AYAH=EA (that's how it's pronounced)


edit on 3-9-2011 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 09:54 PM
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reply to post by undo
 

Enuma Elish was written in the 18th to 16th BC so Marduk ls the man, but in the original stories it was Enlil and in the 14th to 10th century Kassite control Enki doesn't allow Adapa to eat from the bread of life. But why did they mention Enki in the Sumerian story comparable to Adam and Eve?



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 09:55 PM
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reply to post by KingJames1337
 


Well obviously if the Bible WERE true, then that would not be true. We don't exactly know when Noah was. In fact some might say it dates with the first intermediate period of Egypt, in which case it predates that tale by half a millennial.

You said we can only go on what we know. Well, here's what we do know. There's a giant temple complex in Turkey fated to 12,000-9000 BC with what appears to be something like a tale of Eden or Noah. Irregardless, that predates everything by 6000 years at best guess.

It's simply not that new.



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by KingJames1337
 


Well obviously if the Bible WERE true, then that would not be true. We don't exactly know when Noah was. In fact some might say it dates with the first intermediate period of Egypt, in which case it predates that tale by half a millennial.

You said we can only go on what we know. Well, here's what we do know. There's a giant temple complex in Turkey fated to 12,000-9000 BC with what appears to be something like a tale of Eden or Noah. Irregardless, that predates everything by 6000 years at best guess.

It's simply not that new.


i did a bit of work on the timeline. what i ended up with was, nimrod, who was the akkadian enmerkar and the egyptian narmer, founded pharaonic egypt at the city now known as abydos (spelled abdju in egyptian, which is pronounced abzu). this was approximately 200 years after the flood. if you can date ENMERKAR and the LORD OF ARRATA text, ya got the timeframe minus 200 years (give or take a few decades).
edit on 3-9-2011 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 10:03 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


And again, if the flood is what happened during the First Intermediate period, then this would be incorrect.



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by KingJames1337
reply to post by undo
 

Enuma Elish was written in the 18th to 16th BC so Marduk ls the man, but in the original stories it was Enlil and in the 14th to 10th century Kassite control Enki doesn't allow Adapa to eat from the bread of life. But why did they mention Enki in the Sumerian story comparable to Adam and Eve?



not sure i understand the question. can you rephrase?

enlil was the LORD OF COMMAND. he was in charge of the earth.
enki was the LORD OF CREATION. he was in charge of genetic science on the earth.



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by undo
 


And again, if the flood is what happened during the First Intermediate period, then this would be incorrect.


it wasn't global. now i'm thinking it's possible they confused a real global flood with the later black sea flood, in their retelling of the event, or the translators did.



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 10:19 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 

What's not new the enki tales?

edit on 3-9-2011 by KingJames1337 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


I was referring to another story. I'll post it in a second.



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


But the old testament was written during the Babylonian Exile.



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 10:29 PM
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the cutting in half of tiamat (severing her ties to abzu), seems to be referring to the turning off of the abzu gate, which severed the wormhole at the singularity. it's not about the proto earth. tiamat was the chaos dragon of the abyss, which is the abzu, which is the bottomless pit,which is another name for a wormhole. also known as the egyptian nun, the void, ka.dingir.ra, eye of ra, etc,. think different magnitudes. some wormholes create/destroy whole galaxies, some create/destroy stars, planets, moons, locally rather than galactically
edit on 3-9-2011 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 10:30 PM
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Enki and Ninhursag and the Creation of Life and Sickness
The cosmogenic myth common in Sumeria was that of the hieros gamos, a sacred marriage where divine principles in the form of dualistic opposites came together as male and female to give birth to the cosmos. In the epic Enki and Ninhursag, Enki, as lord of Ab or fresh water (also the Sumerian word for semen), is living with his wife in the paradise of Dilmun where
"The land of Dilmun is a pure place, the land of Dilmun is a clean place,
The land of Dilmun is a clean place, the land of Dilmun is a bright place;
He who is alone laid himself down in Dilmun,
The place, after Enki is clean, that place is bright"
Despite being a place where "the raven uttered no cries" and "the lion killed not, the wolf snatched not the lamb, unknown was the kid-killing dog, unknown was the grain devouring boar". Nevertheless Dilmun had no water and Enki heard the cries of its Goddess, Ninsikil, and orders the sun-God Utu to bring fresh water from the Earth for Dilmun. As a result
"Her City Drinks the Water of Abundance,
Dilmun Drinks the Water of Abundance,
Her wells of bitter water, behold they are become wells of good water,
Her fields and farms produced crops and grain,
Her city, behold it has become the house of the banks and quays of the land."
The subsequent tale, with similarities to the Biblical story of the forbidden fruit, repeats the story of how fresh water brings life to a barren land. Enki, the Water-Lord then "caused to flow the 'water of the heart" and having fertilised his consort Ninhursag, also known as Ki or Earth, after "Nine days being her nine months, the months of 'womanhood'... like good butter, Nintu, the mother of the land, ...like good butter, gave birth to Ninsar, (Lady Greenery)". When Ninhursag left him, as Water-Lord he came upon Ninsar (Lady Greenery). Not knowing her to be his daughter, and because she reminds him of his absent consort Enki then seduces and has intercourse with her. Ninsar then gave birth to Ninkurra (Lady Fruitfulness or Lady Pasture), and leaves Enki alone again. A second time, Enki, in his loneliness finds and seduces Ninkurra, and from the union Ninkurra gave birth to Uttu (weaver or spider, the weaver of the web of life).
A third time Enki succumbs to temptation, and attempts seduction of Uttu. Upset about Enki's reputation, Uttu consults Ninhursag, who, upset at the promiscuous wayward nature of her spouse, advises Uttu to avoid the riverbanks, the places likely to be affected by flooding, the home of Enki. In another version of this myth Ninhursag takes Enki's semen from Uttu's womb and plants it in the earth where eight plants rapidly germinate. With his two-faced servant and steward Isimud, "Enki, in the swampland, in the swampland lies stretched out, 'What is this (plant), what is this (plant). His messenger Isimud, answers him; 'My king, this is the tree-plant', he says to him. H cuts it off for him and he (Enki) eats it". And so, despite warnings, Eki consumes the other seven fruit. Consuming his own semen he falls pregnant (ill with swellings) in his jaw, his teeth, his mouth, his hip, his throat, his limbs, his side and his rib. The gods are at a loss to know what to do, chagrinned they "sit in the dust". As Enki lacks a womb with which to give birth he seems to be dying with swellings. The fox then asks Enlil King of the Gods, "If i bring Ninhursag before thee, what shall be my reward?" Ninhursag's sacred fox then fetches the goddess.
Ninhursag relents and takes Enki's Ab (water, or semen) into her body, and gives birth to gods of healing of each part of the body. Abu for the Jaw, Nintul for the Hip, Ninsutu for the tooth, Ninkasi for the mouth, Dazimua for the side, Enshagag for the Limbs. The last one, Ninti (Lady Rib), is also a pun on Lady Life, a title of Ninhursag herself. The story thus symbolically reflects the way in which life is brought forth through the addition of water to the land, and once it grows, water is required to bring plants to fruit. It also counsels balance and responsibility, nothing to excess.
Ninti, the title of Ninhursag, also means "the mother of all living", and was a title given to the later Hurrian goddess Kheba. This is also the title given in the Bible to Eve, the Hebrew Khavvah (חוה), the Aramaic Hawwah, who was made from the rib of Adam, in a strange reflection of the Sumerian myth, in which Adam, not Enki walks in the Garden of Paradise.[8]

edit on 3-9-2011 by KingJames1337 because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-9-2011 by KingJames1337 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by KingJames1337
 


oh i get it. did you read my post about how adam was traced etymologically back to alulim? and that alulim and elohim were the same? and that meant adam and elohim were the same? THAT is because the people were named AFTER their creator. in biblical texts, the equivalent was the egyptian atum. these are all plural nouns. to further give evidence of this, consider the word elohim as used in the opening passages about the creation of adam, is also used to describe the dearly departed, angels and etc. michael heiser has a paper on this, which you can read here:

So What Exactly is an Elohim? (the link is to google docs. i had to put it in tiny url because it's such a long link)
tiny.cc...



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


Just for the sake of speculation, you can flood the world by spinning it faster and water rising from centripetal force.

reply to post by KingJames1337
 


The everything. It's too similar to older myths and tales and pictures on walls.

Yes, the OT was written during the Exile. But it was oral before that. The fact it was written gives no evidence as to when it was actually created or occurred. We only know that it was written down during the Exile, not when it was created. Same goes for pretty much all these myths. They may, in fact, all be from a much older oral tradition.

The presence of what appears to be the same tale on 9000BC era stone tablets gives serious credence that What you're talking about is a re-adapted tale of a much older myth.



I say again, you're faith in these old myths is baseless because there are older ones that appear to say something similar. IE, Everything you keep talking about is a byproduct of that, not the origin.
edit on 3-9-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 11:03 PM
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Alright I'll accept that but the Jewish people when they were invaded changed their concept of YHW or Jehovah. Too them god wanted fairness, as a result of their people being invaded by sea peoples and that's where god as a good being who cannot be capable of wrong comes in therefore it is people's fault.



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by undo
 


Just for the sake of speculation, you can flood the world by spinning it faster and water rising from centripetal force.

reply to post by KingJames1337
 


he presence of what appears to be the same tale on 9000BC era stone tablets gives serious credence that What you're talking about is a re-adapted tale of a much older myth.



what 9000 BC tablets. link to the text please



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