I've been thinking about these maritime patrol aircraft like the Nimrod and Orion and was wondering about a few things.

What is the longest range a maritime patrol aircraft could use a torpedo to sink a submarine at?

Also, at what depth are submarines effectively 'covered' from attack from the air?

Originally posted by Hyperen
I've been thinking about these maritime patrol aircraft like the Nimrod and Orion and was wondering about a few things.
What is the longest range a maritime patrol aircraft could use a torpedo to sink a submarine at?
Also, at what depth are submarines effectively 'covered' from attack from the air?

I don't think they are. ASW depends on alot of factors, from salinity to temperature of the water, surface conditions, depth etc. One of the reasons the Brits developed the spearfish was to get at the ALFA boats that could dive at 3000+ feet. I don't know if a ASW plane could carry the spearfish though. I think that IF it sub can be detected, it can be attacked. If not by the air then the MMA or Nimrod can vector in other sub to take care of business.

So does anyone have an answer to the range question like a very rough estimate in miles, say in perfect conditions, whatever they may be?

Mk-46 (small torpedo mostly used on planes and helicopters) has a 12 000 yards range at 45 knots and can reach up to 1500 yards depth so it has no problems to kill also deep submerged Alpha submarines . Mk-50 is more advanced so it should be better (faster and longer range) . Mk-54 combines Mk-50 guidance system with Mk-46 propulsion system so it's something between them both.

Just to compare : submarine launched Mk-48 ADCAP has a 54 000 yards range at 40 knots or 42000 yards at 55 knots.

So even if you are as far down as you can go in the submarine, you can still be killed from the air.

I guess there is really is nowhere safe anymore and there is a weapon to counter any defence.

Submarines should get some weapons to counter aircraft!

Originally posted by Hyperen
So even if you are as far down as you can go in the submarine, you can still be killed from the air.

I guess there is really is nowhere safe anymore and there is a weapon to counter any defence.

Submarines should get some weapons to counter aircraft!

There was some stuff done by the USSR in the 80s about putting small SAMS in submarine fins (conning towers) to take out MPAs

Originally posted by LordofLard
There was some stuff done by the USSR in the 80s about putting small SAMS in submarine fins (conning towers) to take out MPAs

Thats sounds really interesting - Did they manage to get it to work?

Do you have a link or some more information?

Originally posted by Hyperen
Thats sounds really interesting - Did they manage to get it to work?

Do you have a link or some more information?

It was launched similar to a Sub Harpoon, encapsulated launch from a torp tube, vreaks the surface and fires off.

From what I remember, it was very temperamental as the guidance was tricky.

[edit on 27-8-2004 by Cjwinnit]

It could be teoretically possible to launch anti-aircraft misilles from VLS cells or torpedo tubes. VLS should be universal, but I don't know if the current ones on subs can do it. The radar could be on the surface, towed behind the submarine, while the sub stays submerged.

[edit on 28-8-2004 by longbow]

[edit on 28-8-2004 by longbow]

Originally posted by longbow
It could be teoretically possible to launch anti-aircraft misilles from VLS cells or torpedo tubes. VLS should be universal, but I don't know if the current ones on subs can do it. The radar could be on the surface, towed behind the submarine, while the sub stays submerged.

Don't forget the CAPTOR torpedo. Its a lightweight torp that lies in an encapsulated place and listens for the sonar sounds overhead. When it finds an acoustical match in its data base it launches its torpedo. You get the best of both the mine world and the torpedo world.

Maybe a little oftopic question - have some subs already antitorpedo defense? I am not talking about the decoys - I mean mini torpedos or something like this used to destroy incoming torpedoes. Like current antimisille defense on the ships.

The Harpoon and Captor.I read about these as a boy. You cannot tell me they are still using these?
I mean,even if they do work just fine,you have a penchant for creating new systems every generation.

Originally posted by LordofLard
There was some stuff done by the USSR in the 80s about putting small SAMS in submarine fins (conning towers) to take out MPAs

Yes, I think it was a version of the SA-7 MANPADS.