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Mathematics Is Wrong. Here's Why.

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posted on Aug, 30 2011 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


But you OP was about mathematics. In mathematics, 0 is not used to denote infinity nor is it used to denote an arbitrary value. Mathematics is not "wrong" in this respect. What mathematical problems does your "right" math solve that the "wrong" math doesn't?


0 and negative numbers correspond entirely to subjective points of view whereas the all-inclusive formlessness infinity corresponds to both subjectivity and objectivity.
edit on 30-8-2011 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 30 2011 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by john_bmth

Originally posted by habfan1968

Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by HappilyEverAfter
 


Within the Earth's frame of reference my speed would be 0km per hour.


Speed would be the measurement used to gauge how fast or slow something is moving? If you are not moving, relative to the context, there is no measure of speed.

Exactly, ZERO speed or ZERO km per hour. Look, I hate to burst someone's bubble but this is semantics, not mathematics. To suggest that 0 = inf is incorrect, no amount of semantical gymnastics will change that. In math, zero exists. Conceptually for human beings, zero exists. The math is not wrong, I font see airplanes falling out the sky because "mathematics is wrong".
edit on 30-8-2011 by john_bmth because: (no reason given)


Show me where someone said that 0 = infinity I didn't catch that.

-Alien



posted on Aug, 30 2011 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by john_bmth

Originally posted by habfan1968

Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by HappilyEverAfter
 


Within the Earth's frame of reference my speed would be 0km per hour.


Speed would be the measurement used to gauge how fast or slow something is moving? If you are not moving, relative to the context, there is no measure of speed.

Exactly, ZERO speed or ZERO km per hour. Look, I hate to burst someone's bubble but this is semantics, not mathematics. To suggest that 0 = inf is incorrect, no amount of semantical gymnastics will change that. In math, zero exists. Conceptually for human beings, zero exists. The math is not wrong, I font see airplanes falling out the sky because "mathematics is wrong".
edit on 30-8-2011 by john_bmth because: (no reason given)



But John, the idea of "0" as it relates to math is not entirely true though is it? 1/2 = .5 .5/2 = .25 etc infinitely, the answer if you keep dividing the result by two can never be zero, therefor zero is inherently wrong. 0 would still be the ones value of the number ten ( 10 ) one hundred (100 ) etc.. but it does not belong before 1. 1 should be the starting point of our number system. if I don't have 1 i just don't have 1, but i cannot have zero.



posted on Aug, 30 2011 @ 03:25 PM
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Its quite obvious that math using 0 works, but its applications are limited. With limited mathematical applications, you introduce limite possibilities and limited understandings. You slow down progress.



posted on Aug, 30 2011 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by Alien Abduct
reply to post by Smack
 


My first laugh of the day thanks Smack.

Back on topic:

I agree with the OP that 0 can be replaced with (infinity). But, I have one question for the OP. Can you show me ware using this new method would be significant? Not that I doubt that you would yield different results.

-Alien


CERN



posted on Aug, 30 2011 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb
Infinity and 0 are both immeasurable. 0 cannot be measured because there is nothing there to measure. Infinity cannot be measured because once a measurement has been attempted, there will always be something greater or smaller.


I think this is where your error lies. Zero is ALWAYS in relation to something. Infinity is too, but is continuous without limit, in either positive or negative (when dealing with numbers and BS like credit
). BUT, zero has real world applications, especially when it is referencing something. For instance...if I have 5 apples, and I ate all...I am left with no apples. This is what we call "zero" apples, meaning...no apples are left to be counted. Infinity can be counted, though you will die trying. Zero isn't real per say, as it does not exist, but it's simply a word used to define the existence of that nothingness, which is practical. In other areas, zero has greater depth, say binary for instance.



posted on Aug, 30 2011 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by sdrawkcabII
 


But the application of zero is incorrect because really, there is no such thing. The only way to achieve zero in mathematics is to assume it happens. Infinity can replace the zero concept and be correct. The only place the zero needs to be replaces is at the spot before 1. At that place I would place the symbol for infinity. Before 1 is infinite

When is zero is factually wrong then the place it holds in incorrect.
edit on 30-8-2011 by habfan1968 because: too add



posted on Aug, 30 2011 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by steaming
Break one pencil in half, throw one part away and continue to keep breaking such in half etc. At what stage do i reach Zero ??? I know such may become too small to divide, yet i know i can never reach 0.. To reach infinity means a continued addition and thats what space keeps doing does it not ?? So yes Math's are handy, yet still become wrong. Great thread, keep up the good work...


Just throw the other half of the pencil away, it worked for the first half.




posted on Aug, 31 2011 @ 03:14 AM
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reply to post by sdrawkcabII
 


Or you can put it like this if you remember that energy can neither be created or destroyed:

If you eat your only apple, you have 0 left. But you still have the whole apple within you, but in parts. It really hasn't disappeared. The apple have just changed by being eaten.
Even after you have digested the apple you still have the whole apple within you, but in broken up parts. Even if you take a dump, what used to be the apple will never cease to exist. The apple will just change by going through a process.

0 can not exist, because we can not have something that the infinite can't provide. We can not make something from something that doesn't exist.
edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 31 2011 @ 03:23 AM
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Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by sdrawkcabII
 


Or you can put it like this if you remember that energy can neither be created or destroyed:

If you eat your only apple, you have 0 left. But you still have parts of the apple within you. It really hasn't disappeared.
Even after you have digested the apple you still have the whole apple within you, but in broken up parts. Even if you take a dump, what used to be the apple will never cease to exist. The apple will just change by going through a process.

0 can not exist, because we can not have something that the infinite can't provide. We can not make something from something that doesn't exist.
edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)


If by 0 apples you mean WHOLE apples, then yes, if you bite into the apple, it would cease to be a whole apple.



posted on Aug, 31 2011 @ 03:29 AM
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Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by sdrawkcabII
 


Or you can put it like this if you remember that energy can neither be created or destroyed:

If you eat your only apple, you have 0 left. But you still have parts of the apple within you. It really hasn't disappeared.
Even after you have digested the apple you still have the whole apple within you, but in broken up parts. Even if you take a dump, what used to be the apple will never cease to exist. The apple will just change by going through a process.

0 can not exist, because we can not have something that the infinite can't provide. We can not make something from something that doesn't exist.
edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)


If by 0 apples you mean WHOLE apples, then yes, if you bite into the apple, it would cease to be a whole apple.


Yes, but no matter what you do to the apple. What ever the apple is made of will never disappear. Become 0, non existent. It will just become something new/different as it goes through a process.

It takes a process for the apple to become a apple, the apple never appeared from nothing "zero".
edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 31 2011 @ 03:32 AM
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reply to post by spy66
 


It will become zero is you specify what you mean. If you are talking about an apple in the same sense as a person, you wouldn't talk about 2/3 of an apple in the same sense you wouldn't talk about 2/3 of a person.



posted on Aug, 31 2011 @ 08:43 AM
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0 can not be replaced by infinity. They are not similar either. In mathematics 0 is the center while infinity exists on both sides of the +/- scale. Think of a number line ---

infinity



posted on Aug, 31 2011 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
0 can not be replaced by infinity. They are not similar either. In mathematics 0 is the center while infinity exists on both sides of the +/- scale. Think of a number line ---

infinity



posted on Aug, 31 2011 @ 09:17 AM
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So if I have one apple and I give that apple away I am left with an infinite amount of apples? Profit.
edit on 31-8-2011 by quackers because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 31 2011 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Your sophist arguments prove nothing.
edit on 31-8-2011 by 547000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 31 2011 @ 09:33 AM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


OK, try to think of zero as even or balanced

you can add an infinite amount to either side of the scale but to make the scale even or balanced you would need the same infinite amount on the opposite side.

Positive and negative can exist infinitely. But there is only 1 zero.

Infinity is the sum total of all, while zero is the point at which positive and negative balance or equal each other.



posted on Aug, 31 2011 @ 09:46 AM
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To say that negative numbers do not exist is like saying your left hand doesn't exist or "I only believe in the North pole. The South pole does not exist." Magnetism is measured in positive and negative. Atomic particles have positive and negative charges. Negative numbers do not represent a lack of existence but rather a left and right or North and South. Nature and the laws of physics show that zero is the point of perfection while infinity is imperfect.

Zero is at rest , while infinity is in constant motion
edit on 31-8-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 31 2011 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by quackers
So if I have one apple and I give that apple away I am left with an infinite amount of apples? Profit.
edit on 31-8-2011 by quackers because: (no reason given)


Infinity is not an amount of anything. An amount designates a finite value. There is no finite in infinity.

If you have one apple and give away one apple, from your subjective perspective, you are without apples, but objectively, that apple still exists. Mathematics, as far as I know, poorly takes into consideration the relationships of various systems. It only operates within one system, and is able to do so by inventing negative numbers and 0.



posted on Aug, 31 2011 @ 09:51 AM
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Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
To say that negative numbers do not exist is like saying your left hand doesn't exist or "I only believe in the North pole. The South pole does not exist." Magnetism is measured in positive and negative. Atomic particles have positive and negative charges. Negative numbers do not represent a lack of existence but rather a left and right or North and South. Nature and the laws of physics show that zero is the point of perfection while infinity is imperfect.


Math works fine with 0 and negative numbers to an extent.

Its not that one pole is negative and one positive. It is just that they are directionally different, but both are magnetism. One is a giver, the other is a receiver. Polarity is defined by one end being more positive than the other, but both are actually positive.

Nature shows that 0 never existed. 0 is man's interpretation of infinity.



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