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More Absolute Assurances From NASA About Elenin

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posted on Aug, 29 2011 @ 12:03 AM
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Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by JibbyJedi
 


Well then I guess you were lucky. I'm sure the people that lived in this house are glad they heeded the warnings and evacuated.



lol that is not a house but a fresh lemonade sale stand





posted on Aug, 29 2011 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by JibbyJedi
 


I never really fit in with the Mensa crowd or the businessmen, I'm a t-shirt and jeans kind of space junkie who thought the astro math was way too hard.

Well, that has the ring of truth.

You are, by your own confession here given, a person who inhabits a world of magic and superstition. Since you live in the twenty-first century, the foci of your superstitious fears are not ghosts, demons and black magicians, but comets, solar flares and scientists. However, your attitude to these things is no different from that of your ancestors who wore saints’ medals under their shirts and stayed away from crossroads at nighttime for fear of bumping into Old Nick.

It’s quite charming to see that people like you still exist in highly mediated and technologized Western societies. You would fit in quite well in my own country, where people believe in every religion they’ve ever heard of, wear charmed threads round their wrists to ward off evil, drive brand-new cars two hundred miles to wash them in a sacred river, perform exorcisms to rid sick people of evil spirits, invoke curses on their enemies and consult an astrologer before taking any halfway serious decision.

It seems rather a shame, though, that the intellectual and cultural advances of the last five hundred years seem so completely lost on you. Still, I’m sure you appreciate the technological toys and the antibiotics.



posted on Aug, 29 2011 @ 12:11 AM
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With that said, IN FACT, there isn't one fact that science can point to that is actual fact, what it is, is scientific fact. What that is, is our best guess that is well informed until we have data that shows that as being incorrect, which, I might add, happens ALOT!

Not being able to use common sense or think outside the box and blindly following what you think the results of flawed research mean does not make you correct 100% of the time, and speaking of time, all of scientific facts are proved wrong in the future 99.9% of the time.


Science is proven wrong 99.9% of the time in time? But you see, 'The Bomb' works! and it's been working the same way since 1945, I suppose that little glitch in applied scientific theory is the 0.01% that they got right. Oh but crap, there's that polio vaccine thing too, and...



posted on Aug, 29 2011 @ 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by OMsk3ptic
 


And if you read 2 lines up you'll realise thats why I come here. To ask questions about my own misgivings and get them clarified by people who are more up-to-scratch on the topic.

If it is your purpose to belittle people..maybe grow up.


I'm not trying to belittle anyone, which is why I didn't include your name in the quote, said "no offense", and then was cordial with my post. I was just pointing out how these doomsday conspiracies are able to spread, in hopes that some people will give a little more thought than to just believe anything some random person posts on the internet. I mean your post got 3 stars rather quickly, showing that there are other people who don't understand why something as dispersed as the coma of a comet wouldn't be as visible as an object like Jupiter. Just bringing it up that a lot of these theories get spread through ignorance, and that more thought needs to be put in by the believers.



posted on Aug, 29 2011 @ 12:19 AM
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Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by JibbyJedi
 


I never really fit in with the Mensa crowd or the businessmen, I'm a t-shirt and jeans kind of space junkie who thought the astro math was way too hard.

Well, that has the ring of truth.

You are, by your own confession here given, a person who inhabits a world of magic and superstition. Since you live in the twenty-first century, the foci of your superstitious fears are not ghosts, demons and black magicians, but comets, solar flares and scientists. However, your attitude to these things is no different from that of your ancestors who wore saints’ medals under their shirts and stayed away from crossroads at nighttime for fear of bumping into Old Nick.

It’s quite charming to see that people like you still exist in highly mediated and technologized Western societies. You would fit in quite well in my own country, where people believe in every religion they’ve ever heard of, wear charmed threads round their wrists to ward off evil, drive brand-new cars two hundred miles to wash them in a sacred river, perform exorcisms to rid sick people of evil spirits, invoke curses on their enemies and consult an astrologer before taking any halfway serious decision.

It seems rather a shame, though, that the intellectual and cultural advances of the last five hundred years seem so completely lost on you. Still, I’m sure you appreciate the technological toys and the antibiotics.


WOW! You really did just sum up my whole life by just reading a few comments I wrote here, that's amazing! You got me pegged let me tell ya, it's so true..... because I couldn't multiply pi by (insert letters, fractions, parallels, brackets, some trig, maybe a couple actual numbers) that means I'm a total fairy wizard chaser, but prefer chasing white coats and dry humor.

I can't even discuss what I really theorize, have experienced, have seen, all in this thread because it's off topic and very far reaching for the left brainer SciGuys here living in the Matrix still.

reply to post by Helious
 


What you wrote was like poetry, you have a flow I can't seem to grasp and articulate as well as I'd like to here. I feel like I have to speak another language to communicate to the majority here.



posted on Aug, 29 2011 @ 12:58 AM
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reply to post by JibbyJedi
 


WOW! You really did just sum up my whole life by just reading a few comments I wrote here.

Yes, I’m good at stuff like that. In a way, it’s my job.

Though actually, I’m quite familiar with your activity on ATS. Glad you took my advice and lost the spliff, by the way. Though I’m not sure the new avatar is an improvement. I keep thinking that oaf is going to puncture his spacesuit with one of those light sabres. A bit running with scissors, isn’t it?



posted on Aug, 29 2011 @ 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by JibbyJedi
 


WOW! You really did just sum up my whole life by just reading a few comments I wrote here.

Yes, I’m good at stuff like that. In a way, it’s my job.

Though actually, I’m quite familiar with your activity on ATS. Glad you took my advice and lost the spliff, by the way. Though I’m not sure the new avatar is an improvement. I keep thinking that oaf is going to puncture his spacesuit with one of those light sabres. A bit running with scissors, isn’t it?


I was being sarcastic, I hope you did get that.

I had no choice about the avatar, and it wasn't that thing you said it was in Obi Wan's hand, it was a rolled cigarette I took from stock footage online, I thought it made Obi Wan look more smooth.
And to be a Jedi you have to be a master with the sabers, so my astro-nut would have no worries about puncturing his suit on the red sky moon..... and he knows the moon's sky is really yellow. Avatar is a work in progress, I'm making a few more but I want to stay within T&C this time.
edit on 29-8-2011 by JibbyJedi because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2011 @ 02:02 AM
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reply to post by OMsk3ptic
 


Ah, no probs mate. Appreciate your clarification, and I apologise for taking offence.



posted on Aug, 29 2011 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by Illustronic

With that said, IN FACT, there isn't one fact that science can point to that is actual fact, what it is, is scientific fact. What that is, is our best guess that is well informed until we have data that shows that as being incorrect, which, I might add, happens ALOT!

Not being able to use common sense or think outside the box and blindly following what you think the results of flawed research mean does not make you correct 100% of the time, and speaking of time, all of scientific facts are proved wrong in the future 99.9% of the time.


Science is proven wrong 99.9% of the time in time? But you see, 'The Bomb' works! and it's been working the same way since 1945, I suppose that little glitch in applied scientific theory is the 0.01% that they got right. Oh but crap, there's that polio vaccine thing too, and...


Thats pretty witty! Hows that whole carbon dating thing working out by the way? Just curious, I mean that is one of the cornerstones of science right....... Not quite sure that works anymore? I'm just asking. How about weather patterns, mean to tell me particles from the sun actually created weather? WOW, thats a new one, guess were back to the drawing board there......

Where is that missing particle again? The one they built CERN to find to fill in all the wholes in flawed theory, oh right, still haven't found it. Tell me a little bit about dark matter, i'm still fascinated about that subject and how we use flawed experiments to test flawed theories and then just make stuff up to account for the total and complete lack of verifiable results.....

And in all honesty, you have no idea of the "implications" of the bomb, you don't know if in the future changes with our Sun and the way the particles interact with us and our physical matter could change. You can't tell me weather there is an osculating string or a tiny particle controlling all matter in the Universe so YOU CAN"T KNOW to tell me.

Get off your high horse, because you know nothing and the more you think you know, in fact, the less you do because you close your brain off to other possibilities. Instead, take what you "THINK" you know and build on it.



posted on Aug, 29 2011 @ 08:15 PM
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reply to post by Illustronic
 





Science is proven wrong 99.9% of the time in time? But you see, 'The Bomb' works! and it's been working the same way since 1945, I suppose that little glitch in applied scientific theory is the 0.01% that they got right.


And since we are talking about "the bomb" I must let you in on a little secret..... It is not just the bomb we are talking about, it is nuclear fusion or fission on the table and it is quite obviously apparent we are not the masters of that technology as clearly evidenced by Fukushima, Three Mile Island and Chernobyl.



posted on Aug, 29 2011 @ 09:25 PM
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Is'nt Dave the same guy who told us NOTHING would happen between March 11-15? Is'nt is the same Dave who said years ago we have an imminent cosmic threat and that we must prepare now? Then he comes on here and says that "THREATS DON'T COME FROM THE SKY!"

Well which is it Dave? If you watch his body language it is blatantly obvious he is hiding something.

Watch this video, and ask yourselves can I really trust NASA?




posted on Aug, 29 2011 @ 11:27 PM
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There certainly is a lot of angst towards NASA. They have personnel with enough brainpower to keep this site running indefinitely. But people still ask.. "how can they be sure?" They have sophisticated equipment, brilliant scientists, and could run circles around pretty much all of you, in a scientific-minded capacity. Not that you Oh-so-smart people would ever admit it.


Of course, once this comet flings on by without any ill-effect, will there be any apologies? No.. of course not. People will just move on to the next "big thing" they are "hiding" from us.



posted on Aug, 29 2011 @ 11:31 PM
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reply to post by Helious
 


Hows that whole carbon dating thing working out by the way? Just curious, I mean that is one of the cornerstones of science right....... Not quite sure that works anymore?

Do you know, the first time I heard that radiocarbon dating didn’t work, I didn’t even know what it was. That’s because I was about eight years old, and I read about it in a copy of The Watchtower left behind by a couple of doorsteppers who turned up at home when my mother was out. Years later, I discovered what radiocarbon dating was, and why the Witnesses had got it all backwards.

That was more than forty years ago.

I can’t believe Bible-Belters and New Agers are still flogging this dead horse. Radiocarbon dating works fine. There are margins of error and factors that need to be accounted for in order to get the correct result. Also, carbon dating only works on organic substances (like wood or bone). It doesn’t work on stone, therefore it doesn’t work on fossils. We use other methods for dating those. In fact, radiocarbon dating is only one of a wide variety of dating methods. Do you seriously think we’d still be using an erroneous dating system after half a century?


How about weather patterns, mean to tell me particles from the sun actually created weather? WOW, thats a new one, guess were back to the drawing board there...

They’re called photons. If this is new to you, you can’t have been paying attention in grade school. Have you heard of the water cycle? The knowledge that the Sun creates weather on Earth is at least a few hundred years old. And yes, we are constantly discovering new ways in which the Sun affects the atmosphere and the weather; these are welcome additions to our (already vast) store of knowledge.


Where is that missing particle again? The one they built CERN to find to fill in all the wholes in flawed theory, oh right, still haven't found it.

The Large Hadron Collider (CERN has been around since 1954) wasn’t built to find the Higgs boson. It was built to find out whether it exists. Learning that it doesn’t is not a failure; it is a success. It eliminates a wide area of inquiry in our search for the fundamental truths of the universe. It means we can draw the curtain on it and say ‘we don’t need to go there any more.’ We can concentrate on other areas instead.

Clearly you cannot imagine the difficult and painstaking nature of modern scientific inquiry. That is not surprising; few people, brought up in today’s world of technological miracles that offer instant gratification, can.

Believe me, there are platoons of gung-ho young physicists out there just waiting for the LHC to prove their seniors wrong; it means their own ideas are likely to get a more receptive hearing.


Tell me a little bit about dark matter

What would you like to know? Are you claiming it doesn’t exist? From which piece of infotainment did you glean that gem?


Get off your high horse, because you know nothing and the more you think you know, in fact, the less you do blah blah blah

Get off your high horse, because by these same arguments you cannot even know whether the Sun will rise tomorrow.

You are surrounded by proofs of the reliability and verifiability of scientific knowledge. You are typing your Luddite effusions on one such proof. But your knowledge of science is derived from the consumer media, possibly with a few creationist propaganda sources thrown in, so you haven’t a hope of understanding anything. What you call ‘science reporting’ is just entertainment meant to keep you glued to a screen or page while people sell you things or brainwash you with religious twaddle. If you want to understand science, get an education.



posted on Aug, 30 2011 @ 12:11 AM
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reply to post by Helious
 


Ah yes, the old "We don't know everything, therefore we don't know anything" argument.

Or, to put it another way,

"I don't understand it, therefore no one else can either!"

and it's corollary,

"If it disagrees with what I believe, it must be wrong, and any evidence they provide is irrelevant (because I don't understand it, and thus they must be lying and/or deluded when they say they understand it)."



posted on Aug, 30 2011 @ 01:05 AM
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Originally posted by Saint Exupery
reply to post by Helious
 


Ah yes, the old "We don't know everything, therefore we don't know anything" argument.

Or, to put it another way,

"I don't understand it, therefore no one else can either!"

and it's corollary,

"If it disagrees with what I believe, it must be wrong, and any evidence they provide is irrelevant (because I don't understand it, and thus they must be lying and/or deluded when they say they understand it)."


lol sounds like my dad.



posted on Aug, 30 2011 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by Astyanax
 





Do you know, the first time I heard that radiocarbon dating didn’t work, I didn’t even know what it was. That’s because I was about eight years old, and I read about it in a copy of The Watchtower left behind by a couple of doorsteppers who turned up at home when my mother was out. Years later, I discovered what radiocarbon dating was, and why the Witnesses had got it all backwards. That was more than forty years ago. I can’t believe Bible-Belters and New Agers are still flogging this dead horse. Radiocarbon dating works fine. There are margins of error and factors that need to be accounted for in order to get the correct result. Also, carbon dating only works on organic substances (like wood or bone). It doesn’t work on stone, therefore it doesn’t work on fossils. We use other methods for dating those. In fact, radiocarbon dating is only one of a wide variety of dating methods. Do you seriously think we’d still be using an erroneous dating system after half a century?


Exactly where in my post did you see any mention of religion? Radiocarbon dating actually may not work and it's not because anyone is beating a bible and it certainly isn't an idea that is 40 years old, it's a new idea that is very real, and it is because of the sun, be my guest and read about it HERE




They’re called photons. If this is new to you, you can’t have been paying attention in grade school. Have you heard of the water cycle? The knowledge that the Sun creates weather on Earth is at least a few hundred years old. And yes, we are constantly discovering new ways in which the Sun affects the atmosphere and the weather; these are welcome additions to our (already vast) store of knowledge.


Grade school? Apparently that is about where you stopped learning because yet again, this is not an old concept but a very reputable one made very recently. So, now it would seem that over half of the clouds in our atmosphere are caused by ion-induced nucleation due to solar rays. This was discovered by CERN, if you would like to educate yourself about it, do so HERE




The Large Hadron Collider (CERN has been around since 1954) wasn’t built to find the Higgs boson. It was built to find out whether it exists. Learning that it doesn’t is not a failure; it is a success. It eliminates a wide area of inquiry in our search for the fundamental truths of the universe. It means we can draw the curtain on it and say ‘we don’t need to go there any more.’ We can concentrate on other areas instead. Clearly you cannot imagine the difficult and painstaking nature of modern scientific inquiry. That is not surprising; few people, brought up in today’s world of technological miracles that offer instant gratification, can. Believe me, there are platoons of gung-ho young physicists out there just waiting for the LHC to prove their seniors wrong; it means their own ideas are likely to get a more receptive hearing.


Ok, I kind of agree with you here. The LHC was not built with the sole objective of finding the Higgs Boson although, it was thought by the majority of the scientific community that it did exist and that was the top priority of the LHC. It still however illustrates that we are in the dark about exactly what our universe is made of at it's very core. I would argue that shows that our understanding about anything can and probably is wrong since most science will change when we do discover our most fundamental building blocks of reality and matter.




What would you like to know? Are you claiming it doesn’t exist? From which piece of infotainment did you glean that gem?


Well, first of all, dark energy / dark matter is one of the biggest black eyes to science currently. Basically the math didn't work and this mysterious stuff was invented from a best guess with no observations or evidence of it existing. There are plenty of scientist who are saying very recently that it probably does not exist, including ones from CERN. Read about it HERE, HERE and HERE




What you call ‘science reporting’ is just entertainment meant to keep you glued to a screen or page while people sell you things or brainwash you with religious twaddle. If you want to understand science, get an education.


What I call science is what you call science, it's just that I'm willing to admit it's flawed. Again, religion? Where? I graduated from Michigan State with honors bud, i'm far from stupid.



posted on Aug, 30 2011 @ 10:29 AM
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Well, first of all, dark energy / dark matter is one of the biggest black eyes to science currently. Basically the math didn't work and this mysterious stuff was invented from a best guess with no observations or evidence of it existing.


Actually quite the opposite, the math revealed EVIDENCE there is mass unaccounted for by the very calculations through OBSERVATION.

If you don't believe in anything you can apply, how would you ever expect to create anything? It's easy to create circular arguments, it's also pointless and non productive. Those kinds of things don't interest people who create, or try to discover.



posted on Aug, 30 2011 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by Helious
 


The claim that the Sun affects isotope decay is up for debate. While one study was published that said there appeared to be seasonal differences in isotope decay of a magnitude of 0.1%, no one has been able to replicate their work, including the team that published the original article.



posted on Aug, 30 2011 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by Helious
 


be my guest and read about it HERE.

When this effect is verified, it will be time to rethink radiometric dating. At present, these guys are nowhere near the level of confidence that would demand such a reassessment. And the only reason something like this is even news is because it speaks to creationist-induced public doubts about carbon dating.


Over half of the clouds in our atmosphere are caused by ion-induced nucleation due to solar rays. This was discovered by CERN, if you would like to educate yourself about it, do so HERE

I knew about this. Re-read what you wrote earlier, and think about what you’re saying more carefully before you say it. Incidentally, ion nucleation is hardly an unknown mechanism.


There are plenty of scientist who are saying very recently that (dark matter) probably does not exist, including ones from CERN. Read about it HERE, HERE and HERE

Two teams peddling their own theories and a page about dark energy, which is not the same thing as dark matter. Sure looks like infotainment to me...

I am aware of the history of dark matter and that it is a hypothetical, though widely accepted, substance. I am aware that many highly qualified physicists don’t believe it exists. However, those wishing to do away with it will have to find something else to do what it does in terms of explanation of observed astronomical effects. There are plenty of other models but none has so far done as well as dark matter. However, the recent collapse of supersymmetry hopes will probably have an effect on the future viability of the dark matter hypothesis.


What I call science is what you call science, it's just that I'm willing to admit it's flawed.

We all admit it’s flawed. It doesn’t mean we should throw up our hands and abandon all of it.


Again, religion? Where? I graduated from Michigan S

Okay, no religion. Possibly an over-enthusiastic embrace of philosophy.



posted on Aug, 30 2011 @ 11:12 AM
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Okay, no religion. Possibly an over-enthusiastic embrace of philosophy.


Bingo! Philosophy can and does lead to science and science can and does lead to philosophy.




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