Locked Up and Left Behind: Hurricane Irene and the Prisoners on New York`s Rikers Island

Originally posted by CeeRZ
Sorry, but I'm going to be the one that is all for letting them stay and drown. If you screw up enough to land in a prison, that's your fault. Guess I'm all for capitol punishment. I don't see it as a problem anyway, even if I was all gung-ho for queen sized beds, because this hurricane is barely a breeze on the scale of what it could be.
And no, if it were my brother or sister in a cell... I would have kicked his # before I turned him in myself, then told him he shouldn't have been stupid. Stupid is as stupid does. Yeah, they are human beings, sure... but when you willingly and knowingly take the rights away from someone else... some people deserve to get left behind. I will concede one point... not EVERYONE deserves it. Petty crimes where people weren't hurt... But from the sounds of it, the majority of that island doesn't hold petty criminals. And yes, I'm sure there will be plenty of backlash about this, and no, I don't really care. It's my personal opinion and feelings towards criminals.

Sweet dreams and all that to you because you apparently have it all figured out. Who are you called? God? You think I'd bow down to you?
I'd say try harder but you are harder than granite I think. No grey in your world, black and white works well for you...well, until real life comes and slams you upside the head and knocks you on your backside....

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Let them free

Originally posted by Acido
Let them free

Funny post but let's get serious here.

(and for once, I agree with a Boncho post....sign of the apocalypse???)

Mandatory should mean mandatory...even prisoners!

Originally posted by Signals
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I understand where you are coming from but he already had ordered mass evacuations (250,000 people)...so this doesn't pass the sniff test IMO...

Fair enough...But that would be making the assumption that 250,000 people were evacuated for good reasons and not political gain in the Mayor's office. I think it's burned Bloomberg since 9/11 that he missed being "The Nation's Mayor" by such a small period of time, and this is his 'big chance' to show he can be a major leader just like Rudy. Evacuating Riker's island however, now that would bring no political gain and enough headaches to drive a man crazy. It's nothing Bloomberg would do unless his hot air wasn't all politics and the threat was as bad as he says.

Perhaps some evacuations on the beach were prudent if common sense just doesn't exist for some people...but it's just gone so far beyond anything even REMOTELY sensible in response to what has now basically become a huge rain event with some nasty winds.

Even his latest announcements hold the 'it's doom and gloom...hang on!!' tone in telling people that told him to go stick it right to the end, that they must now just make it the best they can. Well..I'll just bet that was the whole point for those who stayed. No one disputes this won't be a fun night and the storm is ugly, but geeeeeeze... This isn't Armageddon! Common sense ought to carry people through fine if they aren't right at the waters edge.

reply to post by Signals


According to this article explain the dilemma a little bit. According to the article most of the prisons are well above 20-40 feet in elevation. christofpierson.wordpress.com...

Most of Rikers is in the range of 20 to 40 feet above sea level. Compare this to most of LaGuardia airports runways (1 to 10 feet) or Long Island City (1 to 15 feet) in the city’s evacuation Zone A, which was mandatorily evacuated yesterday. Roosevelt Island, which is in Zone B (at risk from Category 2 hurricanes) is in the range of 10 to 15 feet above sea level. Astoria, in Zone C (at risk from Category 3 hurricanes) ranges 15 to 20 feet. By comparison, most of the Upper West Side is 50 or more feet above sea level and in no danger of flooding.

Whether this is true or not I do not know. But I can agree that landfill islands are prone to erosion.

Originally posted by Signals
reply to post by Wyn Hawks

 

Sorry but that is the same line of thinking that lead to deaths during Katrina...

...irene is no katrina but dont let reality get in the way of your drama-fest...

Well look at the bright side, at least the inmates on Riker's Island will be getting a conjugal visit from Irene. I am sorry, but had to add a little levity to the moment. I agree with the points made by the OP. If a mandatory evacuation was called, then it stands to reason that people in care of the state of New York would be evacuated as well. Those on Riker's Island, and currently incarcerated are for lack of a better word wards of the state. Convicted criminal or law abiding citizens deserve all the protections afforded by the state in the event of a catastrophe.

What Mayor Bloomberg said was an unwise response, and severe lack of judgment. Especially after what went down after Katrina, and what is cited about how the inmates were treated in the article. Now, what we are seeing is the damage control, back tracking, and spinning by Bloomberg's confidants. I would say this is one of the regrettable Freudian slips. However, chances are the mayor face will little to no political fallout by this. Sure some will voice opposition here and there.

Still, large majority of the people would much rather the City of New York worry about them and their families instead of some unfortunate convicts on Riker's Island. Although what was said is a clear double standard, and the world is fraught with them. I doubt much will come of this short of Riker's Island being washed out to sea by the this storm. That is the cold hard facts of the matter. Although, I agree with what was said by the OP, and it is only logically that if inmates are in harms way by a catastrophe like the rest of us they would be evacuated to safer areas as well? Something does not add up about this?

Originally posted by billy197300
reply to post by Signals

 

Disgusting

Before you post a "they're criminals, so what they deserve it" comment...they are Human Beings.

Would you be so disgusted if one of those "human beings" there was incarcerated because they had raped, beaten and then killed your 10 year old daughter? No, my guess is you would say, f$#@ck 'em, let them drown. Just a guess though. You don't get to Rikers Island from getting a jay walking ticket or getting caught with a blunt.

edit on 27-8-2011 by billy197300 because: (no reason given)

What about those who are there on remand, not having been convicted of any crime? Or the youths who are there for smoking a joint?

Not all crims deserve your hatred. I agree, some may, but the majority of the humans you condemn in that prison deserve a lot better.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks

Originally posted by Signals
reply to post by Wyn Hawks

 

Sorry but that is the same line of thinking that lead to deaths during Katrina...

...irene is no katrina but dont let reality get in the way of your drama-fest...

This is Bloomberg's drama fest, not mine.

I can't force anyone here to place more value on Human lives, but I can offer facts coupled with my opinion, which is required in the Breaking Alternative News forum.

Surely a prison would be the best place to keep them? It would be built solidly and should survive any winds.

I dont think evacuating them is feasible as there is simply no place to go.

Originally posted by billy197300
reply to post by Signals

 

Disgusting

Before you post a "they're criminals, so what they deserve it" comment...they are Human Beings.

Would you be so disgusted if one of those "human beings" there was incarcerated because they had raped, beaten and then killed your 10 year old daughter? No, my guess is you would say, f$#@ck 'em, let them drown. Just a guess though. You don't get to Rikers Island from getting a jay walking ticket or getting caught with a blunt.

It's this kind of attitude from Americans that causes me to wish your whole damn failed empire would just hurry up and crumble. No bloody wonder the world is in the state it's in today with people who think like you in charge.

Originally posted by Shamatt

Originally posted by billy197300
reply to post by Signals

 

Disgusting

Before you post a "they're criminals, so what they deserve it" comment...they are Human Beings.

Would you be so disgusted if one of those "human beings" there was incarcerated because they had raped, beaten and then killed your 10 year old daughter? No, my guess is you would say, f$#@ck 'em, let them drown. Just a guess though. You don't get to Rikers Island from getting a jay walking ticket or getting caught with a blunt.

edit on 27-8-2011 by billy197300 because: (no reason given)

What about those who are there on remand, not having been convicted of any crime? Or the youths who are there for smoking a joint?

Not all crims deserve your hatred. I agree, some may, but the majority of the humans you condemn in that prison deserve a lot better.

Came across this tidbit, "On October 4, 2007, the New York City Department of Corrections conceded that "tens of thousands of nonviolent inmates are taken to Rikers Island on misdemeanor charges" This I did not know. Soooooo I guess I was wrong. Still, it's not a big deal. I said before it hit that this is a very common storm and it is being WAY over hyped. They aren't in any real danger there.

They're in there for a reason so they deserve to be left behind

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by billy197300
reply to post by Signals

 

Disgusting

Before you post a "they're criminals, so what they deserve it" comment...they are Human Beings.

Would you be so disgusted if one of those "human beings" there was incarcerated because they had raped, beaten and then killed your 10 year old daughter? No, my guess is you would say, f$#@ck 'em, let them drown. Just a guess though. You don't get to Rikers Island from getting a jay walking ticket or getting caught with a blunt.

It's this kind of attitude from Americans that causes me to wish your whole damn failed empire would just hurry up and crumble. No bloody wonder the world is in the state it's in today with people who think like you in charge.

Ok, you invite all the pedophiles, murderers and rapist to your country for a pleasant cup of tea and treat them like the pretty little princesses and fine outstanding citizens they are. That's just silly

I personally feel that this is evidence that the evacuation orders were made to get people to spend money on gas, supplies, food, water etc etc. Which in turn would stimulate the local economy. Prisoners cost money, they dont spend money. If the threat that has been hyped in the media was actually real, not moving the prisoners would be a mistake of epic proportions.

However, history has shown us that even when the threat is real, prisoners are left to literally fend for themselves. For anyone who is interested in this specific topic, a good place to begin your research is Katrina. Many prisoners drowned in their cells or elsewhere within the prisons. Guards literally left their post to take care of their families and left inmates to die.

One thing to remember, not everyone who is locked up is actually a "criminal". During Katrina some of the "inmates" left behind to die were actually in jail on traffic violations, unpaid tickets, and a variety of minor non violent offenses.

Originally posted by kro32
You really want to spend that much of the taxpayer money so these guys don't endure a little rain and wind?

Your joking right?

Assuming everyone in prison is worthless to society is the same as assuming everyone outside of prison is perfect. Guess we can fire all the cops and judges now.

That does seem a little messed up to call that kind of evacuation but somehow the people the work at the prison have to show up for work. They were not convicted of any crime.

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
Let's focus on the fact that the evacuations are ridiculous to begin with. Of course they are human beings and we shouldn't let them drown, but it's just a tropical storm now, this is a non issue.

I am glad that it is just a tropical storm now...and hopefully (Irene) will be down-graded even more...I think the worst that is going to happen now is some minor flooding and power outages. I just want everyone to be safe.

As for the prisoners on Rykers Island......they are already in prison....being punished for their crimes....so I think they should be considered in an evacuation process too. TPTB just don't want to be bothered with them. I am also thinking...where would they move them to?

reply to post by billy197300


Thankyou for proving my point.

At what point during my post did you get the impression that I meant set them free? Or are you just trying to imply that is what I meant in order to prove your point? I think that's called 'trolling' you know

Originally posted by billy197300
Sooooo, by that logic the guy that sold someones kid the heroin they overdosed on should not be treated like the murderers because he's there for selling drugs? I don't see it.

So if you are not a murder or a rapist, you sell heroin to kids? What a skewed view of our commercial prison industry so many have. My cousin just got out after 11 years. Guess which one of those three crimes he committed.

None of them.

A lot of people are in prison for not hurting anyone and I still fail to see how pretrial detainees are deserving of any of this labeling.