Norse mythology part 1 - The creation of the world and universe

The beginning

Norse mythology always been one of my favorite mythologies because of the wild storytelling about "humanlike" gods in conflict with Giants, when i saw these short video's i tought i would share a little of this wonderous mythology.

There's a lot of written material about the myths, most of it is written to be interpretated just like the bible, but they never been gathered in a religious book such as the bible or the coran. In other words dont read the saga's word by word but enjoy the heroic and horrific stories for what they are.

Much of the "beginning" is storytelling in this mythology, is from the saga's, they dont say a lot about the beginning / singularity, but they suggest it started when two opposite energies collided.

They also mention the diffrence between good and evil and mention the first and future clashes between Gods and Giants.


The world that is created looks something like this:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2f92a30b3255.gif[/atsimg]

In Norse mythology there are 9 worlds that are divided among three levels:
Upper level
•Asgard (Aesir, the land of the gods),
•Alfheim (elves),
•Vanaheim (Vanir),


Middle Level
•Midgard (men),
•Jotunheim (giants),
•Svartalfaheim (dark-elves),
•Nithavellir (dwarves),


Lower Level
•Muspelheim (fire, a bright, flaming, hot world in the southern region), and
•Niflheim (the dead, the lowest level)


all held together by the world tree, Ygdrasil. But the nine worlds and Ygdrasil were not there in the beginning. .Source

Genesis in norse mythology
Ginnungagab was the name of the great void in the middle of the world between Niflheim in the north and Muspelheim in the south - the barren emptiness, no ocean, no beach, neither sky or earth, for grass to grow. The void was situated between Niflheim's icy glaciers and Muspelheims scorching fire. But as the glaciers gradually pushed forwards, towards the the empty void, they met the warmth, the flames and the sparks from Muspelheim, and the ice became frost, the frost became steam, and in the windless Ginnungagab the steam became drops and the water drops got life, and first they became the giant (Danish: jætten) Ymer and then the cow Audhumbla.

From the utter of Audhumbla ran four rivers with milk, which Ymer drank and got nutrition from; while he was sleeping a man and a woman grew from his sweaty armpits, and his left foot had a son with his right foot. The troll-people, called Rimturser (danish) descend from them.
Audhumbla licked the salty stone, and the first night the hair of a man appeared on the stone, the second night his head and the third day the whole man: big, strong and beautiful. His name was Bure and he became the father of Bur. Bur married Bestla, daughter of the giant Boltorn; their sons are Odin, Vile and Ve.
They killed Ymer, and all the rimtursers drowned in his blood, except Bergelmer and his wife; all the later generations of rimturser descend from these two.

The sons of Bur brought the dead Ymer out in the middle of the empty Ginnungagab and created the earth from his body: The flesh became the mainland, his blood the ocean, the lakes and rivers. They made the rocks from his bones, and all the loose stones, big and small was made from his teeth and loose stumps of bones. His skull became the firmament and they placed the dwarves Østre (Eastern), Vestre (Western), Nordre (Northern) and Søndre (Southern) so that they could hold it in place, one in each corner. From his brain, they made the heavy clouds.
From Muspelheim, still there came a lot of sparks that flew around; the gods used those to create all the stars, the planets, the sun and the moon.
Source2

Ancient Alien suggestions / idea's

When you get deeper into the story you will find a lot of story's that would fit very well into the "ancient Alien" theory. Storys about gods descending to Earth, mating with humans, chimera's, mystical wepons, thundering chariots, battles between "Gods", Ragnerok (Armageddon) and other's.

I wouldent mind if Ancient Aliens and Giorgio Tsoukalos made a exclusive episode on diffrent mythologies, norse mythology would be interesting because it's the last place Ancient Aliens might have influenced peoples beliefs.

But the 3rd movie contain a few interesting point.

1. For some unknown reason The God's also fear Ragnerok. Does this indicate that the "God's" live close to Earth and would be affected by a cosmic catastrophe?

2. They mention at the day of Ragnarok the sun is swallowed by the beast wolf Fenrir. A interpretation of that could be a alignment where something blocks the suns light to Earth, planetary alignment? Another interpretation could be sun is shut down (sinister evil alien scheme)?

3. Last but not least these stories give a hint on why human's was created. According to the vikings we are soldiers of the God's and will be called upon on the day of Ragnarok.
I'm not sure why Alien's would need our help.

Not certain, but I might follow with "The God's of Asgaard" in part 2 if i find the time.

Here is some viking music to listen to while you figure out which ancient peoples theory of the universe is the right one
www.youtube.com...

Great post, its interesting to see how past civilisations try to explain how everyday things like rocks, wind etc came about. Long before as we today take simple knowledge as just second nature.

You can almost see the kids round campfires asking the elders why it rains. Then being told with puffed out chests and much posturing that its the tears of some gods or other battling in the clouds.

Innocent and yet brutal times.

I love Norse beliefs! No false pretenses, no fake peace and love, a man survives by his own wit and might. It is interesting to note that almost every belief system flows into another or has similar themes. In Norse mythology you can liken the Yggsdrasil tree to the Christian tree of life, Oden (Or Odin/Wotan) unto God. (He was hung upside down from Yggsdrasil as an offering to himself) It is also where he found the futhark runes and snatched them up. Hel (Hell) is obvious as is Neflheim (Nephilim) Ragnarok/Armageddon Thor/Michael Loki/Satan Just a few quick observations.

No reason to turn the thread into a music channel, thats just annoying (sry).


reply to post by EnigmaAgent


Yes, most of this mythology is storytelling and predictions.
Because of that your interpretation probably is as good as mine or other's.

reply to post by SumerianSoldier


This mythology had a renaissance and is actually getting more "believers". Not that these new "desciples" believe in all the God stuff, but more to toughts on way of life. Source It's also become a religion again to some people.

Yea I agree with you on those and many other ties betweent the diffrent belief's is very interesting. If i decide to make part 2, I'll mention some of those links between God's from diffrent mythologies. Or maybe some of the real writer's can pick up where this stop. (Also thanks for you'r edit).

reply to post by Mimir


Thanks for posting this information on Norse mythology. I’ve always been fascinated by their stories. These passages below reminded me of some descriptions in Genesis.

first they became the giant (Danish: jætten) Ymer and then the cow Audhumbla. From the utter of Audhumbla ran four rivers with milk, which Ymer drank and got nutrition from; while he was sleeping a man and a woman grew from his sweaty armpits, and his left foot had a son with his right foot.

This is how I see the similarities. Adam and Eve reminded me of the man and woman to come from his sweaty armpits. Adam and Eve were settled in a place called Eden. A river that went through Eden became the source for four rivers. Their names were Pison, Gihon, Euphrates and Hiddekel (Tigris).

reply to post by lostinspace


I agree theres a similarity between creation of man in the genesis and norse mythology. As already mentioned you can interpretate most of the stories.

I believe what you refere to here is the genesis of the giants not man. I dont believe the spawns of Ymir human race. As far as I read these texts, the children of Ymir (also called Aurgelmir) the primordial giant were also giants. The boy that was spawned between Ymir's feet was the first frost giant named Thrudgelmir (also named Þrúðgelmir).

"Uncountable winters before the earth was made,
then Bergelmir was born,
Thrudgelmir was his father,
and Aurgelmir his grandfather.
- Vafþrúðnismál (29)

They said that under the frost-giant's arms
a girl and boy grew together;
one foot with the other, of the wise giant,
begot a six-headed son.
- Vafþrúðnismál (33)

(You can find translation to Vafþrúðnismál here, but remeber some are interpretations of the original icelandic poem's).

Ymir had atleast three children.

Ymir, had three children: one nameless son, one nameless daughter and one son with six heads - Þrúðgelmir.

Ymir's first son was a giant without name. He had a sister, giantess, and they became the parents of frost giants. Giant called Bolthorn was possibly their son, or maybe their grandson, but he must be their descendant.

This giant, alongside with his sister, was killed in the great flood of Ymir's blood after Odin killed Ymir.

The parts that i would link / tie to Adam and Eva, is from a day where Odin, Vili and Ve is walking on a beach.
Buri was formed from the stone / ice that the primordial cow was licking, but theres some uncertainties if Buri was a god or a giant. He's name means "the father" and he had a son named Bor. Bor was probably more of primeval god than a giant. Bor married a frost-giantess Bestla and became the father of the three Aesir gods: Odin, Vili (Hoenir) and Ve. One day the three Aesir decide to create a man and a woman named Ash and Embla.

The cow licked a stone or salty ice blocks. After one day of licking, she freed a man's hair from the ice. After two days, his head appeared. On the third day the whole man was there. His name was Buri, and he was tall, strong, and handsome.

Bor and Bestla had three sons: Odin was the first, Vili the second, and Vé the third.
It is believed that Odin, in association with his brothers, is the ruler of heaven and earth.

Odin, Vili, and Vé killed the giant Ymir.
When Ymir fell, there issued from his wounds such a flood of blood, that all the frost ogres were drowned, except for the giant Bergelmir who escaped with his wife by climbing onto a lur [a hollowed-out tree trunk that could serve either as a boat or a coffin]. From them spring the families of frost ogres.

To protect themselves from the hostile giants, the sons of Bor built for themselves an inland stonghold, using Ymir's eyebrows. This stonghold they named Midgard.

While walking along the sea shore the sons of Bor found two trees, and from them they created a man and a woman.
Odin gave the man and the woman spirit and life. Vili gave them understanding and the power of movement. Vé gave them clothing and names. The man was named Ask [Ash] and the woman Embla [Elm?]. From Ask and Embla have sprung the races of men who lived in Midgard.

Source 1 & Source 2

reply to post by Mimir

1. For some unknown reason The God's also fear Ragnerok. Does this indicate that the "God's" live close to Earth and would be affected by a cosmic catastrophe?

The Gods fear Rangarok because they, specifically Allfather Odin, knows that it is their own making. They have shaped the world with the sword, broken promises and unholy alliances. Also Odin, by giving his eye to the well of Mimir can see the future, thus being painfully aware of his and (most of) his fellow God's destinies; death in the great battle.

2. They mention at the day of Ragnarok the sun is swallowed by the beast wolf Fenrir. A interpretation of that could be a alignment where something blocks the suns light to Earth, planetary alignment? Another interpretation could be sun is shut down (sinister evil alien scheme)?

The sun is/was as central as in any animistic belief. Maybe even more so up here in the dark, cold north. The sun being swallowed by a giant, sinister wolf would be pretty much the most gruesome thing to imagine, I'd say.

3. Last but not least these stories give a hint on why human's was created. According to the vikings we are soldiers of the God's and will be called upon on the day of Ragnarok.
I'm not sure why Alien's would need our help.

The Gods need the finest warriors to become part of their army to fend off the vast hordes of the undead (more or less). That is why Odin creates disputes between mighty cheifs and selects the best of the fallen from the battlefield with the help of his maidens, the Valkyries (the name Valkyria actually translates into "The Ones Who Decides Who Shall Die/Fall"). All the others who depart from earthly life is sent to the realm of the dead, Helheim and it is they, alongside the Giants, Trolls and demons who shall face the Gods and the Einherjer.
As one can imagine, it is way less people who fall in battle than of other causes so they need the best of the best to make the odds even at the utter day.


My two cents

reply to post by Mimir


Worth to add is that in the legend of Rangarok there might have been some alterations when it was scribbled down by christian monks around the year AD 1000 to fit into a christian world-view.
In the original ledgend, alledgedly at least, there is no new world after Rangarok, it is just "the end". That's it.
If there is no proper printed proof of the ledgend I guess you need to be a part of Norse tradition to fully understand the solemn fatalism in accepting an ultimate end to things, without a typical christian "rebirth".

And here is some more "viking music" that I personally would prefer more:




Enjoy

reply to post by Raud


Good points on Ragnarok, seeing your own and your worlds destruction would be kind of scary, but your commenting on the "fun / speculation" part of the thread, what is suggested is only ideas.

You may be right the original texts doesn't talk about a new world after Ragnarok but others do. In Völuspá (prophecy of the vølva) Ragnarok isn't the end because a new world will spawn from the old.

Whats the point with the "stupid" music, care to explain?
They diden't have electrical or acoustic guitars then as far as i know.

(I'm no expert, I just go by the stories i remeber from my childhood and try to find something that support it. I much prefere when the sources refere to the older texts like Skáldskaparmál,Gylfaginning and Völuspá. I would much prefere a writer or historian to make these kind of threads, I just try to share.)

Well I find the Norse legends much more convincing than those stupid Middle East Jew/Arab rubbish.

In Fact, I think a religion should be started about these stories, scrap that stupid Heaven....We shall now all go to VALHALLA!!.

Considering my surname means "Noble Warrior" in ancient Norse/Germanic, Im all for it.

Crom, is the prophet, "The Way of Steel" shall be the mantra......

Interesting post of the music video of "Berserk Warriors". That song came out in 1981 and was by the group "Mental as Anything" (they are still going)....Yes they are Aussies and it was filmed in Sydney.
The lead guitarist is the silly viking in the clip, later he started the surf brand Mambo...there ya go.
The Real Conan the Barbarian was also released in late 1981.

reply to post by Mimir


Sorry if I came off as a bit of a bore, I sure didn't mean to. Specualtions are all fine. In fact; there are speculations that say:
1) The mytholgical battle between the Asirs and the Vanirs might very well have been a real event; a between two tribes. The result was that the two religions came together in what is now know as "Norse Paganism" or what you'd like to call it.
2) The "Giants", or actually "The mighty eaters" as one of the translation from ancient Norse says, might also refer to some sort of tribe or population that actually existed in real life. Some mean that they were a "higher class" of people who enjoyed great wealth (as does the mythological Giants). Maybe these people inhabited the far north before the ones who came here during the Iron Age? Others mean, a bit more out on the fringe, that actual giants existed for real. Look up a man called Klaus Dona and his ideas on the finding of a massive hip-bone that seems to have belonged to a humanoid that reached 6 meters tall(!!!).

The "stupid" music is more conceptual that historically correct, I can admit that but still WAY better that what was posted above (IMHO). Why the hell is a guy dressed in a rug chopping some liver with a modern type meat cleaver? And why, oh why is there a cutting board required? Ye GODS!

Here you go; "fictional" Iron Age (?) music without any modern instruments:

reply to post by gort51


There is, it had its revival in the '70s and is called Asetro in scandinavia. Wikipedia got some short explanations to some of the various modern branches.

reply to post by Raud


Yea I often had similar tought's.
Theres no doubt there's a war between the Giants and the Gods, and now we can start the speculations

Could the Giants be a real undiscovered race.
If yes, maybe the early vikings saw these people, maybe even had clashes with them. The stories would support the interaction part.

Could this battle between Giants and Gods be between two alien faction's (both sides posses magical wepons)?

The underlying theme in ancient text and mythology is always the same... We were CREATED

By something else.

reply to post by Mimir


Prior to the Iron Age, during which the Old Norse belief where in their prime (the Viking Age was just a short period of religious/geopolitical transition) we had up here the Bronzen Age that went on in Scandinavia from about B.C. 2000. These cultures seems to have been quite different from what came afterwards. Maybe the population up here was of a totally different origin?
The "giant humanoids theory" is based on finds from all over the world but not (yet) any from up North. Still, there hasn't been many excavations either.

reply to post by Raud


True.

Only problem is there's almost no written history from those time's. But theres indications that they prayed to a god in some part's of scandinavia long before the viking stories. The Tollund man was hung and put into a swamparea as a token to a god 3-400 B.C.



The "megalithic" burialchambers is most likely from the "Tragtbæger Culture" 4.000 – 2.800 B.C
The first Danish communities with "houses / constructed shelter" is estimated to be 15.000 yo.
They also found split bones near firecamps estimated to be 125.000 yo. I'm not claiming the norse religion go that far back.

In the bronze age 2800-500 B.C (in Denmark), they made jewelery depicting the sun, which indicate another religion.
The old norse traditions most likely started sometime during the early iron age which started around 500 B.C.

This beginning of the religion around 500 B.C - 1 A.D match the timeline of another modern religion i believe?
I never tought about that before.

Originally posted by Mimir
Could the Giants be a real undiscovered race.

You'd think that they would have trouble hiding?

Anyway, its just stories. If there is something the Vikings where really good at besides chopping heads off, pillaging and building ships, it was telling stories. Stories so strong that they are still with us today.

Personally, I'd take Asatro (not Asetro, you misspelled it Mimir ) over Christianity any day of the week. Christianity is so boring. I mean come on... People with overgrown pidgeon wings? Thor would rip them off, chop of their heads and drink mead from their skulls.

reply to post by Mimir

If politicians are going to eventually force the teaching of creationism side-by-side with evolution in science classes, I want it to be this version instead of the Judeo-Christian one.

reply to post by merka


Yea Asatro I probably misspelled a lot

They were good storytellers no doubt about that. Maybe these incredible stories is created under the influence of drugs. I often seen speculations that say they used mushroom's before battle, maybe they did during storytelling too.

Your probably right about the pigeonmen would get ripped and possible preserved in one of Thor's halls or worse if they got to close. (And he's one of the good guy's)


reply to post by iterationzero


Signed.
Giant magical Cow's licking ice and Giants spawning from the sweat of other giants later challenging the gods, is a lot more interesting than the story about the invisible skywizard. I don’t see any of them as very credible, but at least they give you a chance to see how fanatic people are. I’m also pretty sure the norse version would catch the boys interest in school, they don’t want to hear about sissy angel praying for peace in the world.

(please don’t get offended, I don’t mean that literally).

So where is this thread heading, more than random christianity-bashings (not that I mind, but...)?

These are the "giant" remains I mentioned earlier:
Klaus Dona confirms Ecuador bones
No where near the Scandinavians, but still.