Al-Qa'ida book by ex-agent sets off war between FBI and CIA

Al-Qa'ida book by ex-agent sets off war between FBI and CIA

www.independent.co.uk

Still simmering tensions between the FBI and the CIA over the September 2001 terrorist attacks and their aftermath have been reignited by a row over a forthcoming book by a former FBI agent that is strongly critical of the main US foreign intelligence agency.


The Black Banners: The Inside Story of 9/11 and the War Against Al-Qa'ida,is written by Ali Soufan, who was involved in many major terror investigations between 1997 and 2005.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Interesting.. So both these ridiculously corrupt agencies are bickering still over who should have taken the blame in the O.S.? Lame! And the CIA wants him to cut out certain parts of his book too! specifically a part dealing with torture! Oops, sorry, according to Cheney, "enhanced interrogation techniques".... thats such BS!

As a side note, the article mentions there are two main issues that are at the centre of the dispute, however, it seems to me that they fail to mention the second issue? or is that just me? haha

anyways, your thoughts?!

www.independent.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Time for ATS to crucify Billy again

specificall a part dealing with torture! Oops, sorry, according to Cheney, "enhanced interrogation techniques".... thats such BS!

Have you ever been in a war and captured someone that you know is the main player in an attack that will KILL your fellow soldiers or innocent civilians? I have and am adept at interrogation techniques. Some times it IS necessary to put the one through hell to save the many. If you actually think it is ok to spare one person if it means ALOT will get killed if you do, your wrong.

Have fun with that.

I might have to get me a copy of this book if it ever comes out.

The agency removed the pronouns “I” and “me” from a chapter in which Mr. Soufan describes his widely reported role in the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah, an important terrorist facilitator and training camp boss. And agency officials took out references to the fact that a passport photo of one of the 9/11 hijackers who later lived in San Diego, Khalid al-Midhar, had been sent to the C.I.A. in January 2000 — an episode described both in the 9/11 commission report and Mr. Tenet’s book.

That is from the nytimes website about it. Lots of other interesting things in it that weren't in the other link.
nytimes.com...

Have a look, I just skimmed through it as I'm short on time at the moment.

In the meantime, however, the bureau had given the book to the C.I.A. Its reviewers responded this month with 78-page and 103-page faxes listing their cuts.

Now that's a lot of cuts! Must of had some serious information in there.

Originally posted by digitalbluco

In the meantime, however, the bureau had given the book to the C.I.A. Its reviewers responded this month with 78-page and 103-page faxes listing their cuts.

Now that's a lot of cuts! Must of had some serious information in there.

Hah...I don't even see the point of buying any of these ex-agent books when they are so heavily censored anyway. It's cut down to all the boring stuff and even that doesn't make sense because it's littered with missing words, sentences, paragraphs and whole pages.

reply to post by billy197300


so you admit 4000 dead and wonded soldiers ,,,,,,,,, and some 1 million dead and relocated iraq's was wrong right

there was no weapons, no threat,,, and certainly no al quaeda till we landed


and how many dead afghani civilians for less than 100 supposed terrorists remaining

reply to post by billy197300


Have you ever been in a war and captured someone that you know is the main player in an attack that will KILL your fellow soldiers or innocent civilians

but which side of the coin are we,,,,, one terrorist is another man's freedom fighter

are soldiers killing innocent civilians whichever side it's on???


if it's ok,,, should we allow cops enhanced interrogation for not only murder but rape cases

if yes,,,,,, can we torture 3 or 4 people to narrow it down to the rapist from likely suspects???/

did we sign the geneva conventions,,,,, does that matter??? is lying acceptable,,,, is insubordinatio of gov't and rules treaties ok???

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Hate to tell everyone but there is a military Psy OPs, EVERYTHING on TV or any book or paper article on these subjects go through them. When I was in Iraq last time I would laugh because occasionally we would see things on CNN or the Armed Forces Network that would be "live" war coverage. It was actually stuff we did weeks ago, edited out the arse.

reply to post by billy197300


to my understanding and my reasoning for joining ATS was anti ignorance.the most ignorant thing in the world? war... ESPECIALLY in a democratic VOLUNTEER military. one can state their experience in warfare and the blah blah blah but at the end of engagement when you are checking your "enemy" for intel etc that person has the same photos of home, family and friends as you. and like you some rich elitist old man told him that you are a threat to his families safety and must die. i might of made a mistake joining ATS if ANY member believes in the justification of warfare, torture and the perpetuation of elitist control

reply to post by shortywarn


should we allow cops enhanced interrogation for not only murder but rape cases

One murder no, one rape no, that is police business. Killing a hundred people, (some how) raping 100 people all at once, YES if it will prevent it. Do you not see the difference? So, YOU are saying that if one man planted a timed bomb in an orphanage with 200 kids in it and that one man will not tell you where it is so you can save all those kids unless you beat the crap out of him its ok to let all those kids die as long as you dont hurt the guy because that would be wrong. Your a sadist if so. Just my opinion though.

reply to post by domtron


The Inside Story of 9/11 and the War Against Al-Qa'ida

Did you honestly think that a thread that started like this would be about peace and love
I surely hope that MY posts don't deter you from ATS. I am but one ignorant old a@# whose opinion really means nothing, so take it with a grain of salt ok. I love ATS, I love reading about the different ways people think, their opinions, their facts and not so facts. The great thing I find about ATS is the fact that anyone can post what they and make their point for or against something. Am I not allowed to post my opinions and ideas as well?

reply to post by billy197300


Yeah Billy....My Father was an interrogator in Vietnam, specifically MAC-V Saigon. I know all about the interrogation techniques employed on prisoners and the long lasting effects they have on the Interrogator as well. Its not like the al-kindas have an enigma coded msg device. Let them go, or imprison them. "Inflicting physical pain or inducing panic to the point of near heart-attack to achieve some level of information,at best, breeds more "terrorists."" His quote.

Originally posted by digitalbluco

The agency removed the pronouns “I” and “me” from a chapter in which Mr. Soufan describes his widely reported role in the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah, an important terrorist facilitator and training camp boss. And agency officials took out references to the fact that a passport photo of one of the 9/11 hijackers who later lived in San Diego, Khalid al-Midhar, had been sent to the C.I.A. in January 2000 — an episode described both in the 9/11 commission report and Mr. Tenet’s book.

In the meantime, however, the bureau had given the book to the C.I.A. Its reviewers responded this month with 78-page and 103-page faxes listing their cuts.

Wanna know why this happened?

Aby Zybaydah confessed after, get this, 35 seconds of torture.


Pay attention to the part where AZ heard the voice of Allah telling him to confess for the sake of his brothers' safety.

They beamed the sound into his head, they made him see things. I know this to be true. I can only prove things with OSI, and here something interesting to start:

[yvid]PLE38A551682578BFD]/yvid]

Want to learn more?
Saeculi Venturi - The Coming Age

We can't let out top secret programs come out in a book, now can we?

Great, while everyobody believes the two agencies are fighting over who is to blame for the 'intelligence faliure' in not spotting the terrorist attacks no one is thinking that elements in government might have been involved in the first place.

This is a prefect example of disinformation at work.

Torture, without even getting into the morality issue...does NOT work:
"...There is, alas, no shortage of evidence from earlier times that torture produces bad intelligence. “It is incredible what people say under the compulsion of torture,” wrote the German Jesuit Friedrich von Spee in 1631, “and how many lies they will tell about themselves and about others; in the end, whatever the torturers want to be true, is true.”

The unreliability of intelligence acquired by torture was taken as a given in the early years of the C.I.A., whose 1963 kubark interrogation manual stated: “Intense pain is quite likely to produce false confessions, concocted as a means of escaping from distress. A time-consuming delay results, while investigation is conducted and the admissions are proven untrue. During this respite the interrogatee can pull himself together. He may even use the time to think up new, more complex ‘admissions’ that take still longer to disprove...”

www.vanityfair.com...
----------------------------------
Guest Post: Interrogation Experts From Every Branch of the Military and Intelligence Agree that Torture DOESN’T Produce Useful Information

Here's an excerpt from that article:

The national security adviser to Vice President George H.W. Bush (Donald P. Gregg) wrote:
"...During wartime service with the CIA in Vietnam from 1970 to 1972, I was in charge of intelligence operations in the 10 provinces surrounding Saigon. One of my tasks was to prevent rocket attacks on Saigon’s port.

Keeping Saigon safe required human intelligence, most often from captured prisoners. I had a running debate about how North Vietnamese prisoners should be treated with the South Vietnamese colonel who conducted interrogations. This colonel routinely tortured prisoners, producing a flood of information, much of it totally false. I argued for better treatment and pressed for key prisoners to be turned over to the CIA, where humane interrogation methods were the rule – and more accurate intelligence was the result.

The colonel finally relented and turned over a battered prisoner to me, saying, “This man knows a lot, but he will not talk to me.”

We treated the prisoner’s wounds, reunited him with his family, and allowed him to make his first visit to Saigon. Surprised by the city’s affluence, he said he would tell us anything we asked. The result was a flood of actionable intelligence that allowed us to disrupt planned operations, including rocket attacks against Saigon.

Admittedly, it would be hard to make a story from nearly 40 years ago into a definitive case study. But there is a useful reminder here. THE KEY TO SUCCESSFUL INTERROGATION IS FOR THE INTERROGATOR -- EVEN AS HE CONTROLS THE SITUATION -- TO RECOGNIZE THE PRISONER'S HUMANITY, to understand his culture, background and language. Torture makes this impossible..."

www.nakedcapitalism.com... roduce-useful-information.html
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Ron Paul also happens to agree that humane treatment, not torture, is the answer...and is just one of the many reasons I support this man's candidacy.

The fact that it is even being published means it is meant to distract from something else. These agencies don't let former agents spill thier secrets. If this had anything they were really worried about in it this guy would have disappeared and no one would have ever heard of the book...

could this be the war which nukes were used under ground in the nation long tunnel that caused the earthquakes in Colorado and Virginia

I love how the CIA pulls the old "National Security" excuse card to justify their obnoxiously massive censorship of this book. As if the FBI doesn't know what constitutes "National Security!" I don't know about you guys but I am so sick of hearing this "National Security" excuse thrown in our faces to justify pretty much anything.

A CIA spokesperson basically said, "To suggest we have censored the book simply because it puts the CIA in a bad light is ridiculous. This is for National Security." Of course, what they don't tell you is that these days, anything that puts the CIA in a bad light IS considered to be a "National Security" concern.

The CIA has worked their way into a position in which nothing they do can be criticized. They can do things that would be TERRIBLE for our international image and indeed for our national security if anybody knew about it, and then slap a convenient little "National Security" label on it and basically get away with murder.

Instead of:
It shouldn't be done, therefore, I will not do it
We have:
It shouldn't be done, therefore, you should shut up and look the other way whenever I do it.

Mmmm, yes, makes me proud of our glorious intelligence community.



P.S. From what I've read, there is no "war" going on between the CIA and the FBI. Whatever conflict there might have been was quickly resolved because the CIA censored the book, and the author agreed to go ahead and publish the censored version. It's done and over.