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New ATS Survey: Origins & Evolution

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posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by Setoman
The only thing wrong about the survey is presenting evolution as science.
Evolution is NOT science. There is no direct scientific proof or evidence to it.
And all the stories you hear about new fossils being found and about how they lived is just wishful thinking and fairy tales.


...But I've seen paintings/artist renditions of ape human transitional creatures in textbooks derived from finding a lone tooth in the dirt. Surely secular humanist textbooks and museums wouldn't simply present garbage in order to push their own secular humanist worldview on the unsuspecting public?




posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 10:45 AM
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Only If Darwin Had Known About DNA!!!!



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by flyingfish
 


Yes I agree. It appears that you, flyingfish, do have more in common with chimps than creationists.

You both use the same technique.

edit on 27-8-2011 by dusty1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by AboveTopZecret
 


He did. In fact we've known about genes for several hundred years before we discovered dna. We just had no idea how exactly they worked.

That;s with anything involving humans and knowledge. We didn't know anything about electrons. yet we managed to go all the way to simple computers before even having a basic idea of what the electron was. I guess it's going to be fun with gravity too.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by AboveTopZecret
 


He did. In fact we've known about genes for several hundred years before we discovered dna. We just had no idea how exactly they worked.

That;s with anything involving humans and knowledge. We didn't know anything about electrons. yet we managed to go all the way to simple computers before even having a basic idea of what the electron was. I guess it's going to be fun with gravity too.


"He DID"



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by AboveTopZecret
 


Not the actual structure. It's purpose. Knowing about dna would have no repercussions on Darwin's ideas of evolution, other than providing a means for it to occur by.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by AboveTopZecret
 


Not the actual structure. It's purpose. Knowing about dna would have no repercussions on Darwin's ideas of evolution, other than providing a means for it to occur by.


Not so, succinctly answered



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by DaddyBare
I took your Survey but you left out one thing...
to we native americans and our beliefs... we humans were brought here... All tribes have their own origin mythology so depending on the tribe this is anywhere form the third to fifth planet we humans and been brought too....

wasnt an option on your poll...
youtu.be...


And now you know why creationism isn't taught in schools

a million different "hypothesis's" and only one trail showing proof (evolution)


But it IS taught in schools!

I live in the Bible Belt, and the fundamentalists teachers will do what they want to do. They teach their own politics (never met a Republican) and they teach their own religion (Evangelical Fundamentalist). I grew up with it and it hasn't changed.

I remember prayer in school: An "us verses them" prayer over the intercom every morning-- students were the "them." "Restrain the students, Father God, and protect the teachers..."



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by SG-17
 


Apes live in trees and jungles and are naked and relax every day. We build cities. Apes can live in their environment. We build our own environment. At some point in this evolution, we became a new thing. Apes in title only, perhaps. But in as much as Birds are dinosaurs in title, but no longer, we are the same way in terms of apes.

Everything you mentioned happened in the last 70,000 years. Before that, all we did was hunt and have sex. Everything we made was in regards to those two things. Without art, there was no culture nor civilization. The first cave to have paintings was worth more than every cave that had come before it for the whole of 600,000 years.

We are apes, plane and simple. Birds are Avian Dinosaurs, we are Hairless Apes.

No, culture is the social transmittance of a novel behavior, both among peers and between generations. We've had culture since the first human used a skullcap to hold water, or since the first human made a sharper stone-knife. Art is only culture in a modern sense.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by SG-17
 


Well that's the whole point. Modern sense.

Like I said I have no doubt we are apes. But in as much as birds no longer share much any similarities beyond bones to their dinosaur ancestors, we humans share nothing more than bones and organs of our ape ancestors. We have become something more. Just as a fish cannot be called mold, but came from some mold-like ancestor, a man cannot be called an ape, though he came from an ape-like ancestor.

There's this kind of covert conservative tendency in biology. The need to have things in groups. They must be in groups. But at what point does a group become so distant from its ancestors that they are effectively their own branch. I suppose this opposition in view can best be described by this simple art.




It's just perspective. At some point in time, you have to realize that ape is our ancestor, not whom we are. We have moved passed that. Just as the bird has moved passed the dinosaur. Our behavior, our ways, our interactions with our fellow species. We've become something else. In as much as we do not call birds reptiles, but rather, OF reptiles, we cannot call man ape, but rather, OF ape.
edit on 27-8-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


The split wasn't that early.
This graphic shows it best.




*Hybolates are Gibbons
*Pongo is Orangutangs
*Pan is Chimpanzee

The entire line of homo fits in that line. From Homo Gautengensis to Homo Sapien.
edit on 8/27/2011 by SG-17 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by SG-17
 


Yes, but like I showed, that's pretty simplified. You're missing about half a dozen pre-human humanoids. I guessed it a bit on the monkey side, but the man side was pretty accurate.
edit on 27-8-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by Frira
But it IS taught in schools!

I live in the Bible Belt, and the fundamentalists teachers will do what they want to do. They teach their own politics (never met a Republican) and they teach their own religion (Evangelical Fundamentalist). I grew up with it and it hasn't changed.

I remember prayer in school: An "us verses them" prayer over the intercom every morning-- students were the "them." "Restrain the students, Father God, and protect the teachers..."


Are you talking about private schools? Private schools can do what they want...hell, I had both a bible class and we were all ushered into church on fridays...but thats what you get for going to a catholic school...
Public schools do not have that (beyond elective religion classes you purposefully choose to go to). If some science 101 teacher is trying to teach creationism and gospel, its time to make a phone call to get said person removed. Same as a history teacher teaching the merits of islamic jihad.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by nenothtu
 


It certainly gets blurry between ape and man.

I just feel as though those ancient ones simply weren't thinking like we do today. That they biologically were programmed for thinking another way.


I agree. I have no doubt that they thought differently than we do today. I'm sure part of that was biological programming, and some of it was likely a difference in environment - the environment they had, and they way they dealt with it would require different thinking than what we have today. Some of us moderns don't even think the way we do today!




Because I just refuse to believe that humanity sat around for 600,000 years doing absolutely nothing but hunting and having sex.


Wait... you said that like it would be a bad thing!



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by SG-17

The more ancient species didn't have the capacity for language. Only homo sapiens and Neanderthals did.


I agreed with your post just before this one, and starred it, but here I think I need to split a hair. It should be fairly obvious that language among humans predates Neanderthal, just from the level of technology and organization. Sure, chimps have been known to make spears and use tools intermittently, but nothing that they made and hung on to. Only humans do that, and that indicates some sort of forethought and planning, coordination requiring some level of language.

Perhaps they didn't have speech, but some form of language is requisite. Just watching someone scrape out a spear doesn't communicate that a particular sort of wood or technique is necessary at each step, and what those steps are. Likewise for particular stone tool kits, the evidence for which goes WAY back.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


haha. I was waiting for a reply like that.

Yea, it's not that bad of a thing if you think about it.


Historically, the time period of about 70,000 to 50,000 years saw huge changes in events. Ice ages, extinctions, global volcanic events, etc etc. Every culture talks about it. Seems to have stabilized about 10,000 or so years ago.

I find this time period as a sort of "culling" of the old mindset, and a breeding pen for our modern mind set.

Of course, the fact that some of our moderns don't think like fellow modern men is interesting, but I don't see that as anything more than the fact that we don't need as much intelligence as we did back then. It annoys me that we don't.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by SG-17
 


Apes live in trees and jungles and are naked and relax every day. We build cities. Apes can live in their environment. We build our own environment.


OMG! I AM an ape! You've just proven that I missed the evolutionary boat!



Without art, there was no culture nor civilization. The first cave to have paintings was worth more than every cave that had come before it for the whole of 600,000 years.


Sculpture predates painting by several thousand years. The earliest preserved Venus figurines are around 35k or 38k years old, and the oldest cave paintings are around 16k years old. I have to wonder of sculpture isn't even older than that. The Venus figurines were portable art, and the earliest preserved ones are mammoth ivory. I have to wonder how long they were whittled out of wood before that, but perished in the intervening time. There's also the possibility that I wonder about of whether painting is older than that, too, but not preserved because of it's portable nature, and the media being bark or something other than a climate controlled cave wall.



It took our ancestors 5 million years to go from blade, to blade on stick. It took our species just 10,000 years to go from Villages with spears to missions on Mars.

Something is seriously flawed in the concept that our ancestors of hundreds of thousands of years ago to millions of years ago are the same humans as we are today.

I'm not saying space aliens, nor anything at all. I already explained this previously. I believe it's the difference between exponential thinking and linear thinking. At some point in the last 50,000-70,000 years, we made the crossover from linear to exponential. Brain capacity and intelligence are irrelevant in these regards. Anatomically modern humans are 200,000 years old. But even though our body stopped evolving, our brains did not. That's the key right there. And that's what made us something more.

We can only speculate on what caused this. Perhaps a rouge protein chain, or perhaps a single virus that changed a single line of DNA code. Whatever caused it, it was sudden, it was species-wide, and it was a very very desirable trait.


It seems to be accelerating as well. Consider how long it took to go from walking to riding, then from riding horses to riding horse drawn chariots with wheels, then from horse drawn chariots with wheels to horseless chariots with wheels, then from that to atmospheric flight, then from that to extra-atmospheric flight in space. Each leg of that journey gets shorter, and comes on faster. It seems that not only did our ancestors accelerate, but we are still doing the same. It's happening in every technological realm. The things kids take for granted now were nothing more than pipe dreams when i was a kid.

Next time you flip open your cell phone, say "Beam me up, Scotty!" into it, and consider how things have changed in just your own life time.

Whatever infected us is still working on us...



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


Oh boy, I just had this conversation a while ago. It was in regards to some early art forms.

Today, an artist has thousands of years of history to look for help in how to achieve greatness. But the first artist? Well he just had nature, and nature alone. For all we know, those early Venus sculptures were a dark age of art from a series of masterpieces don on leaves and bark just before!


Unfortunately we'll never know until we have mastered time travel


So we have to stick to what we can know with provable facts. What that shows is, yea, some time around 50,000 years ago something suddenly accelerated our comprehension skills.

Indeed it's still affecting us.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91

Historically, the time period of about 70,000 to 50,000 years saw huge changes in events. Ice ages, extinctions, global volcanic events, etc etc. Every culture talks about it. Seems to have stabilized about 10,000 or so years ago.

I find this time period as a sort of "culling" of the old mindset, and a breeding pen for our modern mind set.

Of course, the fact that some of our moderns don't think like fellow modern men is interesting, but I don't see that as anything more than the fact that we don't need as much intelligence as we did back then. It annoys me that we don't.


Environmental pressures. During that time period, environmental pressures were enormous, and fast-changing. More intelligence had to be exercised to keep up and stay alive. Now, the best of us have reduced environmental pressures for all, including the worst of us, and and so a larger number don't have a need to exercise latent intelligence.

It seems to have been done for them, much to their detriment if the bottom ever falls out.

It could be that another time of culling is just around the corner.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


God I hope not. I'd much rather just the artificial-viral method of adding our abilities to theirs.

Genetic communism, yay!
edit on 27-8-2011 by Gorman91 because: le spelling





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