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But I like your thread and your opinions.
If you don't give the drug addict 50$, somebody else probably will. But I see your point. Cruel to be kind.
Originally posted by Torgo
reply to post by filosophia
I don't disagree that the bible has been altered over the years, but the one we have today does condone slavery, and no where in it does it say that Jesus was mocking slavery when he spoke of it in parables.
Originally posted by TheThirdAdam
Why is it so difficult to have original ideas? I hate when people quote the bible like it is gods autobiography that couldn't have ever been manipulated to gain power...
Who do you worship, God or needs?
Is your reflection of your God that of a slave to the will of all men, condemned to be at the mercy of all needs?
If it is moral to only serve others, then how does one serve God?
Why would Jesus say that he came that we would have life abundantly and not say to have life enslaved to any will but our own?
I am by no means against giving and helping others, but it is for the purpose of creating a better world for my self. Others may benefit, but so do I.
Objectivism, applied socially, is a phillosophy of mutual trade benefits. The golden rule applies, this even works with charity if you think about it...
"The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master."
Originally posted by sylvie
My bosses all adore Ayn Rand; I think she was despicable. Love this "Angry Flower" cartoon titled: Atlas Shrugged 2: One Hour Later." It's oh-so-true...
Originally posted by SuperiorEd
I do not expect you to understand where I am coming from on this, but at least consider what I am saying here. The root of all problems in this world arise form how we view our position here on earth. Pride results in objectivism. Humility and love result in the fruit of altruism.
Here is the article.
It is an error to believe that your body owns the soul. No human possesses the soul. Most of us are brought up believing that the nature of this world exists within this backwards dualistic mindset, forcing us to willfully buy into the false notion of objectivism—viewing reality as an identity we own. Not only does this mindset cause us to grasp at our own souls as possessions, we tread on the dignity and rights of countless souls around us in the wake of our choices. Our misunderstanding of what it means to be moral creatures resides in this false belief of the body possessing the soul.
If we flip this counterfeit, egocentric view back to reality, we see that the body does not possess the soul, but the soul possesses the body as a gift from God. Understanding this one point allows us to see the world as it truly is. Buying into objectivism merely denies this reality and tramples the bestowal we owe back to God under a metaphorical foot of pride. Nevertheless, true reality will not be so easily placated. The bill for this false mindset of egoism will eventually come due for each individual. Only Christ can pay this bill in full.
Life requires a choice from each of us: Either we steal away the gift of life as a possession through egoism, or we honor God by paying the gift forward for the good of others through altruism. Stealing gives the reward of what is taken. Giving pays back abundantly and endlessly, across many lives and throughout many lifetimes. The choice should be easy to make when viewed according to the truth of where the soul resides. Law is an unnecessary boundary for the altruistic individual.
Egoism—the pursuit of rational selfishness and the pursuit of personal happiness—is the deception of our egocentric society. On the surface, this materialistic, me-centered mindset seems like a plausible philosophy for personal advancement. The immediate rewards of the self-centered mindset are undeniable and hard to pass up. These rewards are immediate and seem to emanate endlessly from the fountainhead of temporary abundance and perceived security. It is easy to shrug off altruism for fear of uncertainty and loss. Egoism is the easy path to follow but ultimately destroys the soul in the process. No legal requirements will be enough to hold back egoism in a materialistic society.
Altruism—the denial of self in loving-kindness to others—represents the only truth that can set the world free. Taking on the title of Christian ultimately requires the sacrifice of being Christ like. This is the narrow path leading to a true life of abundance. This wealth cannot be lost and is the only way to find contentment in life.
Does altruism require us to give a beggar a dime, and then pay for our lives dime by dime? Do we give our way forward in life as payment for the choices made by others? Are we the beneficiaries of our own lives or debtors to God? The true individual is the one who dares to live for the needs of others, fully considering himself to be equally in need. The true individual recognizes that God ultimately carries our burdens and gives us all that we possess in this short life.
Ayn Rand - Objectivism
"My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute."
Paul of Tarsus- Altruism
1 Corinthians 13:4-13
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
edit on 26-8-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by TheThirdAdam
reply to post by SuperiorEd
have you ever really read the fountainhead? You should read it and pay special attention to the presence of Ellsworth Toohey and compare his philosophy to your own. I feel like i'm talking to him right now.
Originally posted by blazenresearcher
Originally posted by SuperiorEd
SuperiorEd....Your understanding and and recount of the content of the work is commendable. However, we are but a speck of dust on the arms of the all that there is. We should not be so egocentric.
But a speck that is loved as if we were the only speck in Whoville. Infinity cannot be limited to size or we reduce it to weakness. God is not finite or limited in any way. We see God as having trouble holding it ALL together. Not so. Apart from Him, we do two things only. We think and we move. That's it. $20 if you can give me one thing you do to live apart form thinking and moving. Every need is met to allow us to think and move. "No matter where we go, there we will be, and until we realize that we can only be where we go, we will only be where we are." LINK
Originally posted by TheThirdAdam
Originally posted by GypsK
How did I come to this point? If I would tell you the story of my entire life you would probably think that I am suffering from unresolved issues which lead me to think this way, lol... In rough notes:
I grew up having nothing, had louzy jobs, and a lot of debt... almost no food on the table at the end of the month, etc, you know the drill.
Then at one point we where going to loose everything we own to debt-collectors so we desided to beat them to it and sold just about everything we owned except for our cloths.
By using logic and comon sense we came through it (me and my husband). No help from anyone, just beying smart with money and take small but logic steps and little risk... and a lot of hard work.
Now we have the bussiness, a house, two cars and money in the bank. Which are all 'moderate and modest', but a lot, compared to what others have and don't have. We both are content with it, a job for life, a place to live for life and something saved...it's enough...
It didn't take special skills or rare knowledge to get here, just patience and effort.
Which is what leads me to think that, if I could do it, then anyone can do it! I've tried to explain this to may people but most just won't hear it or accept it and those who hear it often just needs a little push in the back.
This is why I believe in objectivism, because when you take control of your life and live responsibly you will find that anyone can make it on their own. That story is something that you should be extremely proud of. I have a very similar background myself and I know exactly where you are coming from.
That being said, you are probably a lot like me when it comes to karma. You understand what it's like to be at the bottom and have nobody to pull you up. Every time I see someone in that situation I have an overwhelming urge to try to rescue them as I'm sure you do as well. Consequently, I have been burned by those that I am sure had the best of intentions in the beginning but somehow got derailed from their goals.
This is what I'm talking about when I say don't be an enabler. If you think back to when you were in that rut, you will remember what made you decide to change was the fact that you knew that if you didn't do something differently and change your mentality then you were not going to survive. If people would have kept bailing you out then you would have never had an impending reason to do something about the problem.
Now here is the disclaimer. Bad things happen to good people, even the most responsible people can end up in a tight spot and need a hand. These are the ones who need our help the most because it is they that make things like jobs and charity possible. I'm not talking about the elitist, I'm talking about people like you that hire locally and help those in your community. You know who will make the most of the help that you give and who will just take it and be in the same situation the next week, use your judgment. Look at it this way, the ones that you knew wouldn't take your help and get better are best helped by doing nothing but telling them your story. you can sleep better at night knowing that you helped them in the long run by "giving the extra push" as you called it.
I do get what you and others are saying in this thread and I'm thinking all of it trough. It's not healthy to worry about others all the time, I know that.
But still I stay with my point that it's not good to do 'nothing' either...
Talking to someone and being supportive of them while they work through their problems isn't doing nothing, even if it isn't the kind of help that they want, sometimes it's just what they need. In situations like this, what someone really needs to grow is not what they want, but if you give them what they want it only prolongs the problem that needs to be worked out (most of the time).