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Masonic and Illuminati symbols

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posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 04:01 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Referring Quran about Solomon (as Prophet of God , who banned magic ) :

27-17
بِسمِ اللّهِ الرَّحمنِ الرَّحیمِ

AND SOLOMON'S HOSTS OF JINN, MAN AND BIRD, WERE DISPOSED IN ORDER FOR HIM, AND THEY WERE IN MANY GROUPS.


so, His temple was built by power of Jinns who could do supernatural things.

27-39

A DEMON FROM AMONG THE JINN SAID:ِ ``I WILL BRING IT TO YOU BEFORE YOU GET UP FROM YOUR PLACE, AND I AM STRONG AND TRUSTWORTHY (FOR THIS JOB)


Quran



not to tear down your belief system, but in masonry, we teach exactness and perfection when building something. In fact, it is claimed that King Soloman's temple was built so perfect that it looked as if it was created by divine intervention and not human hands.


I just wanted you to compare what you said with some thing much higher for me.




posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 06:07 AM
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Originally posted by hmdphantom
Referring Quran about Solomon (as Prophet of God , who banned magic ) :


AND SOLOMON'S HOSTS OF JINN, MAN AND BIRD, WERE DISPOSED IN ORDER FOR HIM, AND THEY WERE IN MANY GROUPS.


so, His temple was built by power of Jinns who could do supernatural things.


Using the Koran as a history book is just as bad as using the Bible for the same. No one even knows if there was a historical Solomon. The lessons regarding his temple in Masonry are allegorical, not historical.



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 07:17 AM
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reply to post by hmdphantom
 


so you believe in temple building demons? Can you show any examples of their work today?

I don't know how everyone else feels about this since it's my view and mine alone, but I use the Bible as a guide not a history book. Since I don't study other religions enough to read their holy books, I don't know what they say, but I guess their message is very similar. They are meant to guide a person on their journey through life to lead them to an afterlife.

And just to let you know, a lot of your problems with masonry are based on the same lies that keep repeating. If you study objectively, you will find the truth. If you are happy with what you know, then don't bother.



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by hmdphantom
reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Challenge for all masons and informed ones



 


There are lots of things wrong things Freemasonry :

1.The best way to understand Freemasonry is to be a mason.


What is wrong with that? The best way to understand physics is to become a physicist. Of course your #1 is true, but I don't see the problem.


2.There are people who intend that there is nothing wrong with Freemasonry and it is disconnected from :

I don't understand.


3.They educate their students by 1.Symbolism 2.Stories instead of reasoning and analyze. They give examples that doesn't match the matter completely , they mislead people.

There isn't anything hard and fast to learn in Masonry. It isn't like learning grammar or arithmetic. There are parables and examples, because those things are illustrative and they allow one to learn in an organic manner that is unique to each person. Many teachers use allegories and parables. Plato used it. Religions use it. Even Elementary school teachers use it. I bet you, yourself have been explaining something, and when someone didn't understand, you stepped back and rephrased it, or used an example, or made up a story to illustrate a point.

We absolutely DO NOT mislead people.


4.Egyptian paganism (Anubis , Ankh , Obelisk , Eye of Ra , Baphomet )

Been a Mason over 6 years. Never heard a word about any of that stuff (except on ATS).


5.The Sons of Israel : They are referred in Quran in several situations and they are not referred as Jews in Quran.

Been a Mason over 6 years and a Shriner more than 5. We proudly display the Quran on the Altar during open Shrine meetings, alongside the King James Bible, and the Epic of Gilgamesh. If someone requested it, we would probably display any other holy book there. All religions are equal in our eyes as long as they have a singular god at their center.


6.Symbolism in Israel different places to referring Freemasonry. (Israel supreme court , Freemasonry monument in ilat , Israel flag )

Just like Jay-Z and other music producers? Symbolism is mysterious and interesting. It is used by artists in many ways. Masons are not necessarily the ones pushing this issue. No Mason is begging Jay-Z to throw it in all of his videos. They just use it to make things more interesting.


7.Dollar bill referring Freemasonry ( in every different aspect )

King Soloman's temple was not a Pyramid. That is not our symbolism. We use a Sprig of Acacia, not an Olive Branch. The Dollar Bill was not designed by a Mason, although many of the Founding Fathers were Masons, so it is likely that the artist was striving to impress them. It is just an artistic rendition, it isn't Masonic.


8.Bohemian Groove midsummer , ....

A weird, fruity, homo-erotic summer camp for rich boys? Has nothing to do with Masonry. It is just a retreat for extremely wealthy men to act stupid. Most Masons I know would rather be fishing, or working on their house or yard, or for the younger single guys, maybe even hanging out at a strip club. I don't know any Masons that have any desire to attend a Bohemian Grove event. In fact, I'd venture to say, I probably only know 2 or 3 out of 100's that would even know what Bohemian Grove is.


9.Suspicious connection with Jew (Menorah , Jew Prophet - Solomon , Magic , The Land of peace - Dar assalam - Jerusalem , Solomon's temple , Kabalah )

Why is it suspicious? A lot of Masonry is derived from the old testament. Nothing suspicious about it, just facts. Masons are religious people, and many of them believe in the Abrahamic faiths and draw their morality from that area.


10.Suspicious connection with Christians ( Da Vinci , holy grail , obelisks in Vatican , building churches for Christians , Knight Templar , Priory of Zion )

Same as #9


11. 9 + 10 = They are using connection with Christians but they are using Kabalah as their theosophy. So , they can not be referred as Jew neither Christian. They are using Christians as a shell and they are following Jews.

They are none of the above. Each Mason chooses whatever religion fits him the best. We don't teach anything specific to religion. I suppose that is where the Agnostic and Kabbalist connection mistake is made. In fact, the closest religion you could ascribe to Masonry would be Deism. That is kind of where I find myself in the whole religious aspect. My God is undefined and unpersonified, but it is singular, ever-living, and it pervades every aspect of my life. I don't bother naming it, or subscribing to any religion. My belief is probably closer to Buddhist than Christianity, but it really is neither.



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by network dude
so you believe in temple building demons? Can you show any examples of their work today?
Does a demon builder need a permit? Are there still inspections of their work? Are they union? This raises all sorts of questions…



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton
Are they union? This raises all sorts of questions…


And I thought the Teamsters sounded bad....



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 08:34 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Thank you for replies. This is for knowing each other.

1.

The best way to understand physics is to become a physicist


It is the easiest way not necessarily the best way.

+ I think that I should know about some thing then I would become it. I should know about the man 1.who is guiding me and 2.the way he will be taking me.


3.

I bet you, yourself have been explaining something, and when someone didn't understand, you stepped back and rephrased it, or used an example, or made up a story to illustrate a point.


I do use examples but I use examples that are simple enough and are matched with the issue that I wanna illustrate.


6.

Just like Jay-Z and other music producers? Symbolism is mysterious and interesting. It is used by artists in many ways. Masons are not necessarily the ones pushing this issue. No Mason is begging Jay-Z to throw it in all of his videos. They just use it to make things more interesting.


So , You believe that Israel is doing the same thing as Jaz-Z does. They are building those things (Israel supreme court , Freemasonry monument in ilat , Israel flag ) without permission and there is no connection ?



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 08:47 AM
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reply to post by hmdphantom
 



So , You believe that Israel is doing the same thing as Jaz-Z does. They are building those things (Israel supreme court , Freemasonry monument in ilat , Israel flag ) without permission and there is no connection ?


I'm saying they are doing those things for whatever their own purpose is, and they may or may not have permission, but it is not a Masonic agenda to have our symbolism everywhere. Jay-Z does it to get more popularity and money. Maybe Israel does it for the same reason, or to feign some sort of power, or maybe the guys designing it are just Masons and they appreciate what the symbols stand for. It may be "connected" but it isn't part of a Masonic agenda. No Masons are behind the scenes trying to make people use our symbolism.

Also, some things are just universally symbolic. The Pyramids are icons that everyone is aware of. The obelisks are said to be the very first symbol ever erected by mankind..... long before Masonry or even written language existed. The Black and White checkered tile is visually pleasing, and it can stand for any number of things or nothing at all. My own father refuses to join Masonry with me and my brother, but he has tiled many of his businesses in the black and white checker without even knowing our lodge is tiled in that way.

On the other topic of having to become a Mason to understand it. I agree with you to a certain extent. It seems odd to go in blindly. It requires a great deal of trust in those people that have you in their charge. To be honest, I was uncomfortable with it, and I was running through contingency plans in my head of how I would escape if need be. Before I was blindfolded, I was sizing up the men to see who was a threat and who was not. We only have the secrecy to make the degree more fun and memorable for the initiate, but perhaps it is counter-productive? I am a big fan of tradition, and I would never suggest changing it, but judging from my own feelings, I can empathize with those who do not join, simply because of that element of unknown going in. It is a fair concern.



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
The best way to understand physics is to become a physicist



Originally posted by hmdphantom
It is the easiest way not necessarily the best way.


Really? Since when is getting a physics degree 'easy'? Unless of course you happen to be Einstein Jr. and have not told anyone. Give me a break. By your logic the best way to become a doctor and understand treatment is not to go to medical school, just the easiest.


edit on 30-9-2011 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer.



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 09:04 AM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 




Unless of course you happen to be Einstein Jr.


No . I am not Einstein but I try my best.



By your logic the best way to become a doctor and understand treatment is not to go to medical school, just the easiest.


You don't seem to even try to understand what I say.

It is the easiest way not necessarily the best way : I can do my own research to understand whether it is necessary to become physicist (study in university) to learn physics or I can learn with my own studies.

use your head.



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by hmdphantom
It is the easiest way not necessarily the best way


There is nothing 'easy' about it and it is the 'best' way. How many self-taught physicists are there?


I can do my own research to understand whether it is necessary to become physicist (study in university) to learn physics or I can learn with my own studies.


Really? Does your research happen in your basement physics lab? You hiding a particle accelerator somewhere?


use your head.


Follow your own advice.



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by hmdphantom
 

1. I would generally agree with this. As with anything, book knowledge and looking in from the outside only takes you so far and can lead to misconceptions.

2. I am sure there are. Many non-Masons don't hold a suspicious view of the Fraternity, for various reasons.

3. I disagree with this. We do us legends and symbols to impart lessons onto the candidate but there is nothing unreasonable about this. How do we not give matching examples?? How do we mislead?? Everything we tell the candidate is pertinent and factual to the matter at hand.

4. Symbols have no fixed or exclusive meaning or interpretation. There are no obelisks in mainstream Freemasonry nor is there ever any mention of, or allusion to, Baphomet. If any Egyptian artwork exists within a Lodge that is purely that Lodges designs, not mainstream use or acceptance.

5. So?

6. The Star of David is not a Masonic symbol, but a Biblical one. Freemasonry does use it in some instances.

7. There was only ever one Mason on any of the committees but his design was rejected; this Mason was Ben Franklin. 3 committees later Charles Thomson designed the modern seal and he wasn't a Mason.

8. The Bohemian Grove is not a Masonic order so I pay it no attention. I don't care what a bunch of men do in the California redwoods.

9. Freemasonry (Blue Lodge) has strong Biblical (Old Testament) connections. That's never been argued. The York Rite has strong Biblical ties as well, both New and Old Testament.

10. I've been doing a lot of research into the various perpetuation Templar myths and from what I can tell, most of them are made up, at least those connecting the Templars to the Masons, usually to try and increase the pedigree of a newly created Masonic order. The fact remains prior to Ramsay's Oration there was no talk of a Masonic-Templar connections.

In England, Freemasonry was just a gentlemans club but it is likely Ramsay was trying to market Masonry to the French aristocracy who probably would not want to join an organization who is said to come from the working class. After his oration Masonic Templar orders popped up like wild fires.

I should also like to note that Ramsay tied the Masons to the Knights of St. John not the Templars.



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Ok, You are the all knowing and educated and I am the low educated one.

Easy now ?


End of discussion.



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


I see that we have levels of understanding.

Thank you for replies.



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by hmdphantom
Ok, You are the all knowing and educated and I am the low educated one.

Easy now ?


End of discussion.


Right, coming from the guy who uses the Koran as a history lesson and thinks it is more praticle to learn physics without attending a university.



posted on Oct, 1 2011 @ 02:54 AM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


Thank you for replies.

I am still seeing the ties of freemasonry as you define with other groups of people .

There are many undeniable places , persons and movies which connect Freemasonry to things like Zionism , illuminati , knights , ...

 

Your information was very useful for me.

I add your different point of view (i.e for me) into my mind. I hope that I will keep it.
edit on 1/10/11 by hmdphantom because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 1 2011 @ 04:22 AM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 




Using the Koran as a history book is just as bad as using the Bible for the same


 

For all ignorant people



Who think that Quran is just like bible

For all ignorant people



Who think that cats are some kind of sheep. Or the Einstein was the same Humphry Davy,

I have to say that Quran is not just a religious book telling us to worship God and be a good man. It has different dimension and aspects.

So , If you think that Einstein was the same Humphry Davy. then it shows your lack of study about history of science.

And if you think that Quran is just like bible it shows lack of study about Quran and you don't even know that Quran was send gradually and on occasions while bible was sent at once by الله.

If you are secular it doesn't mean that I should be, too.



No one even knows if there was a historical Solomon


No one even knows if there was a historical Jesus.

Because historians haven't find proofs to show us that Jesus existed neither Adam nor Eve.

Is that right ?

I believe in my holy book and you believe in your own kind of historians . So we think in two different ways.

-So if you don't believe that there was a Solomon or if you don't believe that Quran is saying the right thing , I should accept what you say ??

Edited : I don't believe that it was necessary to write this. But it seems that I should defend my books and studies.
edit on 1/10/11 by hmdphantom because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 1 2011 @ 07:37 AM
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Originally posted by hmdphantom
I have to say that Quran is not just a religious book telling us to worship God and be a good man. It has different dimension and aspects.


What dimensions and aspects? That magic spirits built a temple for a man that no one even knows if he actually exisited?


So , If you think that Einstein was the same Humphry Davy. then it shows your lack of study about history of science.


What? Einstein was a physicist and Davy was a chemist. Where are you going with this analogy?


And if you think that Quran is just like bible it shows lack of study about Quran and you don't even know that Quran was send gradually and on occasions while bible was sent at once by الله.


It was still written by men and is not a history book.


No one even knows if there was a historical Jesus.


So?


Because historians haven't find proofs to show us that Jesus existed neither Adam nor Eve.

Is that right ?


It sure is. Adam and Eve are make believe.


-So if you don't believe that there was a Solomon or if you don't believe that Quran is saying the right thing , I should accept what you say ??


You should accept it as my opinion. Organized religion, and the fervent, dogmatic adherents that it breeds, are the cause of the majority of humanties problems.



posted on Oct, 1 2011 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by network dude
so you believe in temple building demons? Can you show any examples of their work today?
Does a demon builder need a permit?

Of course. Just because they are invisible does not preclude them from the law.


Are there still inspections of their work?

Yes, the Lucifarian branch of the inspections department usually takes those tickets.


Are they union?

Yes, the local 666


This raises all sorts of questions…

indeed.



posted on Oct, 1 2011 @ 08:39 AM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 



Adam and Eve are make believe.


I wouldn't call them make believe, but I would say their story is misinterpreted in many ways. God tells the sons to go out and find wives. Obviously there was more to the world than just the garden of eden. Either they were just one of many examples chosen for the story, or they were a made up story reflective of things at the time. Either way, I wouldn't call them make believe, but I wouldn't call them literal either. That goes for the whole Bible.

To HMD:

And if you think that Quran is just like bible it shows lack of study about Quran and you don't even know that Quran was send gradually and on occasions while bible was sent at once by الله.


The Bible is also a collection of books. IT was not sent all at once, and it is likely we don't even have all of the books. Some of the Bible is the word of Jesus, and some of it is recounted by other men. Many books in the Bible overlap or are separate accounts of the same events. Much of the Bible seems to be literal or historical, while much of it seems to be analogy and allegory.

Granted, I am not nearly as familiar with the Quran, but I know enough to not take any book as literal or factual. I don't even believe modern text books as factual. All books are meant to be one account, and a place to begin study, not end it.






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