10 Reasons Not To Vote For Ron Paul

reply to post by Snorkelbacon

The problem with affirmative action is that it is reverse discrimination and you end up with less qualified people holding certain jobs. I would be all for the repeal of affirmative action, but I don't think that we as a society are ready. Because of the fact that, believe it or not, there is still racism in this country, people would hire/ not hire based on race. This is obviously not a large number of people that would do this but it does still exist. And since some folks won't hire based on skill then we all need to suffer under the "counterbalance" called affirmative action. If our society was mature enough to only hire people for jobs based on skill, then I would be all for ending affirmative action as it would put responsibility for holding a job back to the individual. I have been passed over for promotion twice because of affirmative action. And both times I was the most qualified as both men were fired for poor performance within a year. But like I said, until everyone can be fair to each other and put racial feelings behind them, then we will continue to be punished with affirmative action. I also see why aa would breed disenfranchism with qualified folks being passed over in the name of racial equality and quotas. I also know that until aa is removed, there will be a constant racial bitterness due to aa existing.

reply to post by Anttyk47


1. Freedom for all includes minorities. Ron Paul is against one group having more rights than another.

2. Ron Paul would do no such thing and that choice would be left up to each individual state.

3. Free market helps the working class

4. No income tax benefits all

5. Yes, the system must be ended

6. The world would actually respect America once again.

Originally posted by kennylee
Thanks for posting this OP. Now that I have seen it, I can definitely say that I am still voting for him since I agree with 8 out of ten of these things. We need less government in our lives...period....

AMEN Bro, AMEN!!!!!

I only got to see 6 of the 10 points after the MOD edit.
I have to raise this question..

How would his views harm the relationship between the US and other countries? By ending all the stupid wars, taking out their military bases and respecting other nations sovereignty... well the only consequence would be positive. And this is coming from a guy from outside the states.

Also, Ron is definitely not racist and doesn't intend to make it harder for anyone based on their skin color. He often brings up the fact that marijuana arrests disproportionately affects the minorities rather than caucasians.

In addition to this, he is a supporter of the free market and abolishing the fed & irs. Those two aforementioned organizations largely effect the 'middle/lower class' through hyperinflation of the dollar and by taxing the # out of you, while giving the rich/corporations tax exemptions.

Lastly, I think many of those points are over dramatized and should be longer paragraphs arguing the advantages and disadvantages of the views, and they shouldn't be deemed as accurate negatives to his views. I do admit that there will be views of Paul that do not match with everyone's ideals.. but are there any other candidates running on the concept of PERSONAL LIBERTY? No. And at the end of the day, the question is: do you want to be respected and given back your freedoms? or do you want more of the same? look at what direction your country has gone.
There is a reason why so many people outside the US support Ron Paul too. We see he is a different type of politician, an honest one.


Anyway, that was my two cents. Greetings from Finland.

Originally posted by Anttyk47
My stance on the 2012 elections are not reflected by the below article and i will not say if i am for or against Ron paul. The purpose of this thread is to show some interesting CONS against Paul for healthy debate. Also these facts are backed up with bills linked in the articles link. I did a copy and paste from the source, here to make it easier to read. Enjoy

10 Reasons Not To Vote For Ron Paul

1. Ron Paul does not value equal rights for minorities.
   Ron Paul has sponsored legislation that would repeal affirmative action, keep the IRS from investigating private schools who may have used race as a factor in denying entrance, thus losing their tax exempt status, would limit the scope of Brown versus Board of Education, and would deny citizenship for those born in the US if their parents are not citizens.
   
   
2. Ron Paul would deny women control of their bodies and reproductive rights.
   Ron Paul makes it very clear that one of his aims is to repeal Roe v. Wade. He has also co sponsored 4 separate bills to “To provide that human life shall be deemed to exist from conception.” This, of course, goes against current medical and scientific information as well as our existing laws and precedents.
   
   
3. Ron Paul would be disastrous for the working class.
   He supports abolishing the Federal minimum wage, has twice introduced legislation to repeal OSHA, or the Occupational Safety and Health Act and would deal devastating blows to Social Security including repealing the act that makes it mandatory for employees of nonprofits, to make “coverage completely optional for both present and future workers”, and would “freeze benefit levels”. [snip]
   
   
4. Ron Paul’s tax plan is unfair to lower earners and would greatly benefit those with the highest incomes.
   He has repeatedly submitted amendments to the tax code that would get rid of the estate and gift taxes, tax all earners at 10%, disallow income tax credits to individuals who are not corporations, repeal the elderly tax credit, child care credit, earned income credit, and other common credits for working class citizens.
   
   
5. Ron Paul’s policies would cause irreparable damage to our already strained environment.
   Among other travesties he supports off shore drilling, building more oil refineries, mining on federal lands, no taxes on the production of fuel, and would stop conservation efforts that could be a “Federal obstacle” to building and maintaining refineries. [snip]
   
   
6. A Ron Paul administration would continue to proliferate the negative image of the US among other nations.
   Ron Paul supports withdrawing the US from the UN, when that has not happened he has fought to at least have the US withdrawn from the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization.[snip]
   
   Article in this link:
   www.addictinginfo.org...

MOD EDIT: Please do not cut and paste articles. You can copy the highlights and discuss but don't cut and paste more than 15% of the material

edit on 25-8-2011 by Byrd because: (no reason given)

you have proved nothing except how cnn get s to you and how you fall for smooth talkers, you obviously like recesions reason: you just prved it...once again its an article someone wrought same ass cnn saying" oh your not going to vote cause he cant win" realest person , obv shows when everyone else gets mad ad acts hard ohh we need more debt when you in a hole u dont keep diggin

The fact that Ron Paul gets hated on by the MSM and on this site just goes to show that he is the real deal. He is gaining popularity and is a threat to the establishment. That's why people like the OP start these threads.

Dont be fooled my fellow Americans. We have been fooled long enough.

VOTE RON PAUL!!

Originally posted by theshepherd2
I am fairly sure about half of those points can be debated...

You're 'fairly sure' huh? But you don't bother debating them?

Originally posted by kro32
You my friend are not going to see less government with Paul.

This is the conclusion I've come to about Paul. He's shifting Federal governmental responsibilities (like protection of equal rights and individual rights) to the state and local governments, is essence, saying that the Feds won't protect people's rights. That's up to the states and local governments. He would allow states to take away women's reproductive choices and become human incubators against their will... Real 'freedom' there, Mr. Paul.

He lost my vote for some of these points. And yes, I HAVE researched them. Lots more at this LINK


A REAL freedom lover would support the RIGHT of someone to express themselves by burning a flag. Not so with Mr. Paul....

INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS

-- Even though he claims to be a "libertarian", he opposes people's freedom to burn or destroy their own copies of the design of the U.S. flag

H.J.RES.80: Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States authorizing the States to prohibit the physical destruction of the flag of the United States and authorizing Congress to prohibit destruction of federally owned flags.
...
CORPORATE POWER

-- He would repeal significant portions of antitrust law, including the Sherman Antitrust Act, the Clayton Antitrust Act, and others.

H.R.1247:
To ensure and foster continued patient safety and quality of care by exempting health care professionals from the Federal antitrust laws in their negotiations with health plans and health insurance issuers.
...
DISCRIMINATION

-- He has tried to make it easier for racial and ethnic discrimination in our society:

H.R.5842: A bill to make all Iranian Students in the United States ineligible for any form of federal aid.

Just like almost EVERYONE else, he supports the freedoms that HE wants, but NOT the freedoms of EVERYONE. He is no more 'for the people' than anyone else is...

I once thought I might vote for him, but he's not getting my vote. Thanks for posting this. It agrees with what I've deduced from my recent research.

1. Since when has giving special privileges to a group of people been considered equality?
2. Women should have complete control over their bodies, is a fetus part of a woman's body?
3. Minimum wage wouldn't be an issue in a free market.
4. Estate taxes don't only effect the wealthy, why should taxes be paid on something that taxes have been paid on for years already, also when the property is transferred it still gets taxed as an asset of the property owner.
5. We have a dependency on oil, face it the economy needs oil, offshore drilling would be great for the economy, we should lower our dependence on oil period, but until that happens, I would rather have all the money we spend on it go back to this country, not the middle east.
6. Why should we be a part of an organization that takes away our sovereignty?
7.I really couldn't care any less about this issue, either way. It's a non-issue.
8. Gun bans only hurt law abiding citizens. Is a gun free zone going to scare a criminal into leaving their gun at home? This is analogous to prohibition, which worked out/is working so well. I know a fellow who sells marijuana and guess what, he absolutely doesn't want it to be legalized. Who do you think provides all that money that supports prohibition? I'll give you a hint, those who benefit from it.
9. This is one of the issues I feel he is wrong about, even though it coincides with everything he stands for.
10. I don't think he wants a theocracy, the whole point of the separation of church and state is to keep law separate from religion. Hanging the ten commandments on a courthouse isn't the same thing as passing them into law. Agnostic Atheist here btw.

Originally posted by ManOfGod267

10 Reasons Not To Vote For Ron Paul

1. Ron Paul does not value equal rights for minorities.
   Ron Paul has sponsored legislation that would repeal affirmative action, keep the IRS from investigating private schools who may have used race as a factor in denying entrance, thus losing their tax exempt status, would limit the scope of Brown versus Board of Education, and would deny citizenship for those born in the US if their parents are not citizens.
   This video is my answer and reply to the first statement on why not to vote for Ron Paul.
   

I guess these people are brainwashed.

They said they support AA but then they turn around and say how unfair it is in other situations.

So, basically they are idiots whom contradict themselves intensely.

About the thread, I agree this list is out of context and is totally being pushed by some unintelligent person who cannot even read or comprehend what they are reading.

Most of us SUPPORT the majority of these 10 points.

Beating the anti-Freedom crowd is going to be amazingly easy. They don't even know what they are talking about so it will be extremely simple to lead them into traps and set them up. However it is even easier because they will typically bury themselves before giving any of us the chance to get a shovel and start digging.

For now I'll just comment on the ones that I don't agree with/don't think count.

10 Reasons Not To Vote For Ron Paul

1. Ron Paul does not value equal rights for minorities. Ron Paul has sponsored legislation that would repeal affirmative action, keep the IRS from investigating private schools who may have used race as a factor in denying entrance, thus losing their tax exempt status, would limit the scope of Brown versus Board of Education, and would deny citizenship for those born in the US if their parents are not citizens.
   
   1. It depends if you think affirmative action makes minorities more "equal" or not. 2. Why should the IRS get involved in investigating a private business for race related things? Is this what they do? 3. Maybe illegal aliens shouldn't have babies that become citizens if they're born here. Is this a bad thing? They're ILLEGAL aliens, after all.
   
   
2. Ron Paul would deny women control of their bodies and reproductive rights.
   Ron Paul makes it very clear that one of his aims is to repeal Roe v. Wade. He has also co sponsored 4 separate bills to “To provide that human life shall be deemed to exist from conception.” This, of course, goes against current medical and scientific information as well as our existing laws and precedents.
   
   - Ron has stated many many times that he wouldn't do anything about this, it's his own personal opinion though. He does want each state to have their own decision, and allow everyone in their own state to vote on it though, which means we'll have a more localised democracy. I am personally FOR abortion.
   
   
3. Ron Paul would be disastrous for the working class.
   He supports abolishing the Federal minimum wage, has twice introduced legislation to repeal OSHA, or the Occupational Safety and Health Act and would deal devastating blows to Social Security including repealing the act that makes it mandatory for employees of nonprofits, to make “coverage completely optional for both present and future workers”, and would “freeze benefit levels”. [snip]
   
   - Oh no, they're making coverage completely optional, so everyone can choose whether or not they pay into social security...! Screw social security. We're paying into it, and we'll never see it again.
   
   
4. Ron Paul’s tax plan is unfair to lower earners and would greatly benefit those with the highest incomes.
   He has repeatedly submitted amendments to the tax code that would get rid of the estate and gift taxes, tax all earners at 10%, disallow income tax credits to individuals who are not corporations, repeal the elderly tax credit, child care credit, earned income credit, and other common credits for working class citizens.
   
   - 10% for everyone? What are we paying now? 17%? That's not so terrible for me. Anyone that makes 50k/year pays 30% in taxes. 50k-60k/year is still the working class. In parts of the country, that isn't very much money at all. I'm sure they would all like to pay 10%, right? Isn't $10k/yr - 70k/yr pretty much the majority of the people in the US?
   
   Ron would get us out of the wars and end all of our ridiculous spending, so ridiculous tax brackets for people considered rich ($70k+) wouldn't be all that important.
   
   
5. Ron Paul’s policies would cause irreparable damage to our already strained environment.
   Among other travesties he supports off shore drilling, building more oil refineries, mining on federal lands, no taxes on the production of fuel, and would stop conservation efforts that could be a “Federal obstacle” to building and maintaining refineries. [snip]
   
   - Travesties such as being less dependent on foreign oil? Actually producing something in america? You know what he's also for? The industrialization of hemp. We could actually start exporting things again if that happen.. do you know what you can make with marijuana? Do you have any idea how efficient and how much it would save the environment if we started using it instead of trees and the rainforest?
   www.abovetopsecret.com...
   www.freelabs.com...
   
   
6. A Ron Paul administration would continue to proliferate the negative image of the US among other nations. Ron Paul supports withdrawing the US from the UN, when that has not happened he has fought to at least have the US withdrawn from the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization.[snip]
   
   - Proliferate the negative image of the US? Seriously? I mean.. Seriously?
   By NOT bombing random countries and not continuing the "war on tare" we're going to have a more negative image? Keep in mind that 911 happen because of our crappy foreign policy, and being in other countries, not because Osama Bin Laden hates Britney Spears and our freedom.

think outside of the box for a change. to me these just sound like things you told yourself because you don't actually understand what ron paul is saying. why not try and watch some of his videos and quit being so bias. maybe you'll learn something.

reply to post by Anttyk47


1) To say that Ron Paul doesn't value equal rights for minorities is nothing more than demagoguery. Paul doesn't believe in affirmative action laws because the federal government has no constitutional authority to tell a private business owner who they are required to hire. He is correct.

2) Unless Ron Paul can magically transform into 5 supreme court justices he will not be able to overturn Roe V Wade. Therefore this is a non-issue.

3) Ron Paul knows that the federal government has no constitutional authority to tell a private business owner how much they are required to pay employees. If the federal government can set a minimum wage what is to stop them from setting a maximum wage? The idea that companies would pay their employees $1.00 an hour if not for the minimum wage law is absurd. Let the market determine what a fair wage is, I promise you it would be more than the federal minimum wage. Besides, if government cares so much about poor people then why don't they make the minimum wage $15.00 an hour? Because someone making $7.25 an hour will more than likely be dependent on the federal government for other needs, which means that they will more than likely vote Democrat. If social security is so great then why is it mandatory? If it is so great then make it voluntary and let people choose to be a part of it. We all know that if they did that social security would cease to exist, and the federal government would lose one of their slush funds.

4) So basically Ron Paul wants to get rid of the Marxist re-distributive practices of our dysfunctional progressive tax system. If everyone was taxed at 10% then everyone would pay the same percentage, but rich people would pay more because they make more, and poor people would pay less because they make less. What's wrong with that?

5) So Ron Paul wants to end our dependence on foreign oil and produce our own supply? That's a good thing because that would create jobs, increase competition and drive prices down. To say that this is bad for the environment is more demagoguery meant to scare the ignorant.

6) The UN is a domestic enemy of the Constitution. The UN Charter states that it takes precedence over the US Constitution. The UN is a foreign, socialist government without its own land. I often wish that the planes on 9/11 would have hit the UN building and the NYC Federal Reserve. That would have been a good day.

7) Why should someone get special treatment or consideration because of what they do in the privacy of their own bedroom?

8) Ron Paul has an unnatural obsession with guns?! GREAT... it's about time we have a POTUS that realizes what it is that keeps America free from complete tyranny... the 80 million gun owners in this country.

9) The Department of Education should be abolished. Education should be handled at the state level... having a federal department of education is unconstitutional Art 1, Sec 8 and it is also the 10th pillar of communism (a public education system)

10) He is opposed to the current definition of separation of church and state. You will not find this term in any of our founding documents. The original idea of it was to keep the federal government from interfering with religious institutions. The first amendment has nothing to do with this... and it was never meant to stop a prayer at a graduation or a nativity scene at a city park. Those are just examples of the progressive perversion of the original meaning of separation of church and state.

These sound like ten great reasons to vote for Ron Paul... thanks for pointing them out.

This article also fails to mention that there are usually amendments to bills that have nothing to do with the original purpose of the bill that are added on to the back end in order to get them through.

There isn't a politician on Earth with a "perfect plan" because everyone believes in something different. There are always going to be people who see something as negative whilst others see it as positive. These 10 points aren't surprising at all, and I'm 100% sure if someone took the effort to write out 10 points like this for other politicians it will be more shocking.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
There isn't a politician on Earth with a "perfect plan" because everyone believes in something different. There are always going to be people who see something as negative whilst others see it as positive. These 10 points aren't surprising at all, and I'm 100% sure if someone took the effort to write out 10 points like this for other politicians it will be more shocking.

edit on 26-8-2011 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

You know what Stalin's plan was?

I'll quote him. It's a paraphrase though, so it could be slightly inaccurate.

"There are many people with many problems, get rid of the people, get rid of the problem."

Thank you for reinforcing the reasons why I'm not only voting for RON PAUL but am also a contributing volunteer.

I'd also like to thank you for exaggerating his positions on certain issue to the point where it lets me know WE ARE DOING THE JOB!

RON PAUL 2012!

because I've had enough of politics as usual.

reply to post by Anttyk47


my main reason for considering voting for Ron Paul is that he is the only one who is for ending the endless stupid wars that are bankrupting this country.

as to affirmative action, it's a disaster that can only get worse.
at first meant to help blacks, today it works mostly for hispanics born in other countries.
with 20 million illegal aliens in the country, in a generation when they demand their quota of government jobs, no white american will be abel to be a teacher, principal, fireman, policeman, etc.
get rid of this stupid law before it becomes a social bomb.

he may not be abel to do these things, but i'd like to give him a try.

reply to post by noobgal

Oh my god I would cry if he were to be ths next president

That's it, cry? I can live with that.

Just curious, who wouldn't make you cry if they got elected?

with regard to this op, and others referencing RP (both positive and negative), consider this...


there is one thing that cannot be argued about the candidate...and that is he is the Only candidate who, when compared to every other candidate, IS demonstrating a profound understanding of the various issues plaguing the american government.


He is also the only one who is projecting viable and reasonable solutions to the problems we the people are facing.


realize as well, He, of all the candidates, based on so many of his presentations, is clearly more in touch with the realities of America than ANY other candidate....and this is particularly interesting, because it would seem that He, of all the candidates, is actually paying attention to the people.


of course, if he does become the republican nominee - and gets elected - that can all easily change, as it did with Obama...thanks to the powers that be.


but as of now...he IS the best candidate. There is no other candidate at present who is projecting a more viable, more sounder position than RP.


and on ATS alone, i find it quite interesting that RP is by far the one candidate that has the Most Focus...especially when one realizes that even those who oppose RP have yet to express an extensive interest in Any Other Candidate.



food for thought.

6. A Ron Paul administration would continue to proliferate the negative image of the US among other nations.

Of all the points this jumped out as the biggest lie of all of them, pure propaganda. Right now America is hated around the world because they meddle in everybodies business, they threaten, they bomb, they occupy.
Ron Paul wants to end all that, withdraw all the troops home. And stop interfering with nations.
Talk with people and trade with people, that's it.

From the 2008 election cycle, very interesting comments