Scientist & Atheist Converts

reply to post by bogomil

Didn't mean 'you' about the using the 'lack of education' falsehood. It was in my reply to you so I should have been more specific. You generally demonstrate more fairness in your replies and I truly do appreciate it, bogo-san.

My links were in reference to the topic, but I'll try to elaborate more--in my own words--on any of the things we discuss that doesn't require a full-fledged dissertation.

If consciousness can't be defined in any coherent way by science or anyone here debating these issues from a materialistic viewpoint, and, further, it's not acknowledged that the so-called "scientific arguments" suffer because of that lack of understanding, it's a little monotonous, and rather useless to discuss at length arguable scientific theories that often contradict each other.

Plus, it's my understanding that you haven't ruled out a higher consciousness yet? Peace Earth-Brother.

reply to post by The GUT


You wrote:

["If consciousness can't be defined in any coherent way by science or anyone here debating these issues from a materialistic viewpoint, and, further, it's not acknowledged that the so-called "scientific arguments" suffer because of that lack of understanding, it's a little monotonous, and rather useless to discuss at length arguable scientific theories that often contradict each other."]

As you brought it up, it's on your head, if you bring it into a blind alley also. And if you knew this from the start, did you only take it up 'tactically'.

There are two options apart from this.

One is to acknowledge that the scientific knowledge-gap (on the BASIC nature of awareness (christian: Soul, spirit?)) is a knowledge-gap on par with e.g. trans-cosmic speculations, and that a theist 'filling out' such a knowledge-gap doesn't 'prove' anything. A theist claim isn't 'proved' in ANY way through the absense of scientific answers.

Any efforts of such a pseudo-methodology is in the flying spaghetti monster category.

The other option is, that you choose your definition and application and support that one.

Quote: ["Plus, it's my understanding that you haven't ruled out a higher consciousness yet?"]

I'm actually the happy owner of a higher consciousness myself (got it cheap at a local second-hand store). It's an environmental, low fuel version, not needing high-octane divine energy, but runs on ordinary inner silence and can bring me from zero to 'being there' in no time.

reply to post by bogomil


A quick search on google pulled up this interesting argument against the validity of Christianity. Its funny that it's from a Muslim. The Quran says some funny stuff about the Earth being flat too, like "Allah rolled up the Earth like a scroll", so they have no room to talk, but this is a pretty decent argument anyway. Check it out: Flat Earth

Edit to add: this is also a pretty good rendition of the scriptures from Genesis on, that at least hint at the idea the authors had, that the Earth was flat. There is also a decent pictorial representation of the descriptions of the Earth given in Genesis: Bible Passages About Cosmology

reply to post by Q:1984A:1776


Thanks for the link. There were a few very useful references in it. The rest can be talked away by the determined theist semanticist.