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Why can't water be used as fuel

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posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by rigel4
 


He means like fusion as in Deuterium, an isotope of hydrogen, it can be done in theory but in practise it's very difficult; Wiki Tokamak reactors.
I need to stress again that the HHO mixture is higly explosive, & will destroy just about any container if the volume is too big.
And all that for a few amps at 12V. It uses less power than your extra sub-woofer in the back

edit on 25-8-2011 by playswithmachines because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by playswithmachines
 


I will add that the problem is in the volume of gas required, typically 100-200 litres a minute for the average car, being diluted 1:9 with air, giving you the 2000 or so litres/minute the engine needs.
Running a car on pure HHO is not easy, most efforts are used as a fuel supplement,giving you much better gasoline use, reports from 25% to 40% have been known. Personally i would agree with the lower percentage.
Flame arrestors, careful regulation/mixing etc. it can be done.
You even have to fool the MAP sensors, which leads to it's own problems.
Were working on it



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by metaldemon2000
 


Och, nae 3H laddie, just plain Tritium around here

Seriously, if i remember, there were some good results with Potassium and Calcium, according to Naudin & co.
Funny, Tesla also worked with these 2 elements in his 'button' lamps, he remarked at the time on the curious properties of these materials.........
If you want to read the full stan meyer patent Here and The full report here please feel free to do so

edit on 25-8-2011 by playswithmachines because: Links added

edit on 25-8-2011 by playswithmachines because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 05:10 PM
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Well I found this u tube clip.
Take it for what it is worth. Though he has went off the deep end religiously,not the newest theories, but had them work. Frustration with our government and Corporations advancing anything really hurt him.

edit on 8/25/2011 by mugger because: add



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 05:13 PM
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Water is the product of burning hydrogen fuel just like CO2 is the product of burning carbon. It is the exhaust. Your car exhausts CO2 and water from burning hydrocarbons. It is possible to convert water back to hydrogen and oxygen, it is just not energetically favorable. You lose much more than you put in. The electrolysis is about 70% efficient, at best, because of electrical resistance in the electrolyzer. Fuel cells, which convert hydrogen to electricity, leave 5-15% of hydrogen unreacted which has to be recycled or combusted.

Water is about as burnt as it can get using air as an oxidizer.

Here are the three laws of thermodynamics written for poets:
1. You can't get something for nothing.
2. The best you can do is to break even.
3. You can't even break even.



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 05:32 PM
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Water can be used as a fuel but the cost of the energy required to make water into fuel via electrolysis still far exceeds the cost of gasoline refined from crude oil. If that gets turned around you can expect to see fuel produced from water taking over from fuels sourced from crude oil. As yet, it hasn't happened and getting the energy from fossil fuel to turn water into a fuel is just nuts on an economic scale even if it is an interesting experiment for backyard scientists. Large scale industrial electrolysis plants acquiring electrical energy at bulk contracted rates (around 20% of consumer rates) could maybe get close to challenging gasoline prices but if it was a viable proposition it would be happening already (investors prefer to see profits on their investments).



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by pteridine
 


Aaaargghh *double face palm*



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 07:00 PM
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Helium 3

Helium 3. Not as strong as hydrogen fusion but less destructive. So much so that long term reactions can theoretically be sustained.
if so would make a great stepping stone for eventual hydrogen. The first cars weren't nascars, have to start somewhere.

I honestly believe we should be looking offworld for new elements that will be used in next gen power generation. Earth is limited to whatever elements its composed, and manmade elements are hard to make. We are however, not limited to just looking for these elements on earth.

We need a new frontier. And we have always known where that is.
edit on 11/8/25 by metaldemon2000 because: url fix



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by pteridine
 


Exactly, fuel or a current source of work converted into electrical. Stored or moving. Water being the waste product of hydrogen gas is like trying to derive fossil fuels from co2.

We simply need new elements to create better tech.



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 09:35 PM
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What a fantastical case of pseudo scientific thought we have in this thread.

As others have mentioned, thermodynamics trumps using hydrogen from water as fuel. It's a great sentiment to want to run the world on water but it's not happening anytime soon.

Not because of some grand conspiracy, but because it just isn't feasible.


Fuel cells use other materials as catalysts that have stored energy reserves, so if you consider them, you need to consider the catalysts into the equation as well.

What's the future? The stars perhaps...



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 12:44 AM
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theres only so much water on this planet, and it doesn't reproduce it like crops. would you really put your life blood on the table like that?



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 04:15 AM
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reply to post by polit
 


the fusion of hydrogen creates helium, this is the most basic thing any scientist will tell you about the sun, I have no further comment, you are obviously stressed.

ed: the water recombines, as with everything else thank to e=mc2, nothing is truely destroyed, only quantum states are that uncertain
edit on 26/8/2011 by whatsinaname because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 09:18 AM
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Originally posted by whatsinaname
reply to post by polit
 


the fusion of hydrogen creates helium, this is the most basic thing any scientist will tell you about the sun, I have no further comment, you are obviously stressed.

ed: the water recombines, as with everything else thank to e=mc2, nothing is truely destroyed, only quantum states are that uncertain
edit on 26/8/2011 by whatsinaname because: (no reason given)


Nobody is disputing where 3He comes from. People were talking about using 3He as fuel and you dismissed them with your arrogant rudeness. I have no further comment, you are obviously lacking in reading comprehension.



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 10:55 AM
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It seems like there are new people falling off the turnip truck every few weeks.

In short simple terms.

It takes more power to extract the hydrogen form water than you get by burning the hydrogen.

But I expect there will be a new truck load of HHO believers in a few weeks.



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 02:26 PM
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Hmm

Thread didn't turn out the way i expected...;

Ho hum .....

Maybe we can try a different approach to the worlds dependence on oil.

Suggestions please



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 05:48 PM
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Well lets see. What will we get by burning oil? CO2 and H2O...

Why can't we use CO2 and H2O as fuel. Get oil and oxygen as result. Reduce the global warming and our dependence oil at the same time!?

The water fuel crowd must live in a strange mirror world having the entropy reversed.

We depend on oil because it is a abundant, simple to process and distrubute(read cheap) energy carrier. Make the alternatives(alcohol, hydrogen, batteries...) more competitive and nobody is going to use oil.



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by rigel4
 




Sadly all of them are fake/hoaxes


Not, they are not all hoaxes at all, not all of them. Have you ever tried to make a reactor yourself? Thought not, you just choose to believe what you read on the internet, correct? Well I didn't believe it!

I am a long time automotive mechanic, and became intrigued with HHO Reactors. So I bought one, didn't like the design, so I modified it, then built my own, then five. See my thread over here:
Turn Your Car/Truck Into a HHO/Gas Hybrid
I urge you to read the entire thread, this was a trial and error experiment, and had a few pitfalls that my son and I overcame. Instructions are on page 2. www.abovetopsecret.com...

We are now running two jar type reactors in a 1990 Chevy G-20 4300 pound Full size van with a 350/200 hp V-8 engine. We are getting real close to 40 miles per gallon.
The only reason I am not running more, or a bigger one, is space. You cannot have it inside the passenger compartment, and you can see by the photos, or have ever owned a van, under-hood space is very limited. Read the thread, complete instructions are there, you can build your own. On a 4 cylinder little car, two would surely bring in 50-70 miles per gallon.

I almost forgot to mention....this HHO separation has been patented.
Hydrogen Technology Applications, Inc.
hytechapps.com...

For all of you armchair scientists who say it takes more power to make HHO that it produces? I had to regulate my reactors down to 40 Amps to keep them from drawing all 105 Amps from my H.D. truck alternator. 13.5 Volts at 40 Amps works just fine, thank you.
Friend, from now on, when you hear anyone say this does not work, or posts a page full of math equations proving it won't work, or says it takes more power that it produces, remember this: Don't believe everything you read on the internet! It works!
edit on 8/26/11 by autowrench because: To add links and content



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by rigel4
I want to know why you clever sciences types can't get water to work as a combustible fuel.
I have watched many a video about hydrogen separation from water, which then burns as fuel,
for pretty much any use.
Bob Lazar's video of his Hydrogen powered corvette isn't a hoax:



You just use solar power as he suggests, to split the water into hydrogen and oxygen, then you run your car from the hydrogen. He's already doing it (though he isn't using solar power to split the water, as he suggests doing) though some new solar cells coming down the pike may be able to do that more efficiently.


Originally posted by intrepid
H2O. 2 hydrogen molecules. Highly combustible. Would make an excellent fuel source. The byproduct would be oxygen. Big downside there.
Like Konquest said, no money to be made off of that.
They can make money selling hydrogen as they make money selling gasoline. Some stations already have hydrogen dispensers but not many.

en.wikipedia.org...

Since the turn of the millennium, filling stations offering hydrogen have been opening worldwide.



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 07:37 PM
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Why can't water be used as fuel?

It is a good question. However, any half decent understanding of chemistry would demonstrate that the process of electrolysis to separate the hydrogen and oxygen would require the same energy making the whole exercise a bit daft.

It’s a nice fantasy, not really a goer. It helps people find a mutual interest in their thoughts that the oil industry suppress such technologies for their own greedy ends. Yawn. Go back to school kids.

You could use a use a hydroelectric dam to make the electricity to feed a car battery.

One might ask “why can’t sand be used as fuel”? There was some work (I forget where, but maybe Bristol University) where a car was converted to drive around on human crap. It worked, but somehow I think I would rather visit a petrol station than a sewerage farm.

Excuse my chemistry. It’s been a few years.

Regards



posted on Aug, 28 2011 @ 05:48 PM
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It’s a nice fantasy, not really a goer. It helps people find a mutual interest in their thoughts that the oil industry suppress such technologies for their own greedy ends. Yawn. Go back to school kids.


Go ahead, laugh all you like. What is your fantasy, saves my family over $200 every month is gasoline. Money that can be used for other things. Everyone here in my town laughs too, but not half as hard as I laugh as I drive right past those gas stations!




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