Will proof ever be good enough for those non believers?

Originally posted by avvie
But when will proof ever be enough?

We have videos, several eyewitnesses, physical evidences and the government has shared lots of information about it, but many people think that Man has never went to the Moon.

Will proof ever be good enough for those non believers?

Yes. And it will also be good enough for believers as well.

When?

When it is physically, publicly, and empirically presented in a way that it can be independently confirmed by anyone who wishes to do so.

Such has not happened yet. What have we got?

Good evidence? Yep!

Reliable sources? Absolutely!

Photographic records? Sure!

Witness testimony? Check!

Is any of that proof?

No.

reply to post by Outrageo


I think your signature sums this thread up to a tee!

Originally posted by avvie
reply to post by Outrageo

 

I think your signature sums this thread up to a tee!

I agree with his signature, which is...:

"To the Believer no proof is necessary...To the non-Believer no proof is possible." But WE Deserve the Truth the Whole Truth and Nothing BUT the Truth...

...to a point.

HOWEVER, it seems that many of the people we call believers and non-believers are BOTH closed minded in that BOTH latch on to the evidence that supports their beliefs (which are often preconceived beliefs) and ignore the evidence that does not support those beliefs.

So, yeah -- there are believers and non-believers, but I am more in the camp of wanting to KNOW, not just BELIEVE. And that knowledge requires better evidence than we have right now. All we have right now is evidence that would allow us to "Believe", not to "Know".

...and don't confuse my perception that there is a lack of good evidence with the idea of me thinking that ETs are DEFINITELY not visiting. While I think good evidence of ET visitation does not yet exists, I'm not ruling it out completely. I'm very open minded to both possibilities, not just one.

Originally posted by Outrageo

Will proof ever be good enough for those non believers?

Yes. And it will also be good enough for believers as well.

When?

When it is physically, publicly, and empirically presented in a way that it can be independently confirmed by anyone who wishes to do so.

Such has not happened yet. What have we got?

Good evidence? Yep!

Reliable sources? Absolutely!

Photographic records? Sure!

Witness testimony? Check!

Is any of that proof?

No.

Well said - nothing that has been produced so far has been real proof for all the reasons mentioned above. If these space aliens really existed and have been coming here for tens of thousands of years, then they would not be hiding and ducking cover all this time. They don't really exist because there is no proof.

Give this as proof:

1) Present a live, breathing, and interactive alien non-human being for millions of people to interact with.

2) Present one dead that can be examined and proved to be non-human, intelligent, and not of this world.

3) Present a so called interstellar space craft for everyone to see and then fly it in front of millions of people.

4) Land a space craft in a major city, then take on a group of human scientists and fly them back to their home plant and then back to earth for everyone to see and for those who went as a group to testify about.

5) Present a crashed space craft that you can prove was made on another planet and is not a secret military weapon of some sort that was made on earth.

6) Have the so called aliens cure cancer worldwide if they are so smart and advanced.

7) Land a space craft at NASA and fly human astronauts to Mars and the dark side of the Moon to prove they have bases there.

None of this is possible because these beings do not exist. There are no aliens visiting our planet and none of the so-called evidence produced so far is even close to being scientific proof.

reply to post by flight-dynamics


Flight...if your name is by way of you having any actual flight experience....then I would be surprized that this would be your opinion. I have deep connections and family in the USAF as well as civilian aviation. Any pilot will tell you that part of their training as well as expressed protocols in both the Civilian and Military aspects of reporting E.T. or UFO encounters....is extensive...as well as very specific in how it has to be done.

Another bit of proof....look up the First Responders Guide that is given to all Firefighters and Police by FEMA. This guide specifically has a section that deals with protocols as they apply to procedures to be taken in the event of a Crash by an Extra-Terestrial Craft.

It talks about possible radiation and Bio-hazzard threats...and how HAZMAT gear is a MUST....and how to cordon off an area while awaiting special agencies of military units...that will take over after arriving on scene.

THIS IS NO JOKE! You can look it up. Split Infinity

Non-believers, if we are truly not alone, what proof would be good enough if it came along?

You might wanna start with beating the rare earth hypothesis'. Give me this:

N* × fp × fpm × ne × ng × fi × fc × fl × fm × fj × fme= a few.

I think that would get my attention, but only that: my attention.

Originally posted by D.Wolf

Non-believers, if we are truly not alone, what proof would be good enough if it came along?

You might wanna start with beating the rare earth hypothesis'. Give me this:

N* × fp × fpm × ne × ng × fi × fc × fl × fm × fj × fme= a few.

I think that would get my attention, but only that: my attention.

That formula only takes into account one Universal state of reality and does not consider a Multiverse. In all likelyhood....matter and energy...can not exist within only one Universal state. As example....look at sub-particles that comprise the makeup of Protons and Neutrons...lets use say...Quarks.

The number of Quarks in any given proton....never are less than a specific quantity or more than another. They litterally blink in and out of existance...thus the quantity in any given proton is ALWAYS CHANGING but never to a numerical extent greater or less than a specific number.

Most likely....the Quarks that are blinking in and out of existance...are exchanging or appearing in an alternate universal state. Split Infinity

Nope it doesn't, but it's good enough for me to get "a few" out of the formula as it is, to have me attentionalized.

If you want to put in your blinking factor to get exited, go for it.

reply to post by avvie


This is such a simple question to speak and yet the answer is deep in my opinion and for good reason.The paradox is this. If a person was shown the same proof as an atheist and he or she believed after seeing the proof. The difference would be this. God convicts the heart of the person and softens it and convinces it ( The Heart) That God is God and That's what God says in His Word and that is what He Does when the heart is ready. Until then it is rubbish and foolishness to the un-convinced Heart..

Thx for the thread

Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by avvie

 

This is such a simple question to speak and yet the answer is deep in my opinion and for good reason.The paradox is this. If a person was shown the same proof as an atheist and he or she believed after seeing the proof. The difference would be this. God convicts the heart of the person and softens it and convinces it ( The Heart) That God is God and That's what God says in His Word and that is what He Does when the heart is ready. Until then it is rubbish and foolishness to the un-convinced Heart..

Thx for the thread

OOOooKAY? I there is a GOD....then we should fire his ass as he is either been slacking on the job....or doesn't really care. Personally....although I believe in something....it certainly isn't anything based on some concieted Human concept of how we were supposedly created in HIS...ever notice girls that because most people who were religious leaders were MEN....that they naturally assumed it was a HE and Not a SHE?....reguardless of the even larger stupidity of thought that a GOD would have any gender at all....never mind....exist in such a confined and useless form as a Human.

Want to see an example of GOD? Or the closest thing that anyone ever can? Grow a garden....tend to the plants.....donate some of them to a food bank or a neighbor in need.....then you might experience a moment of satisfaction or see gratitude in a persons eyes....that is as close to GOD as most will get....with the exception of saving a persons life on the field of battle....or watching as another sacrifices themself for some other....that they might not even know. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


I understand your point. I respect it. I just want you to know all your questions and feelings are valid because you feel them but, There are answers to each thing you say and feel and you don't have to be wrong to listen to the answers to what you question or may feel. If you like, I will explain.. Let me know.. Thx for the post and the thread!!

Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

I understand your point. I respect it. I just want you to know all your questions and feelings are valid because you feel them but, There are answers to each thing you say and feel and you don't have to be wrong to listen to the answers to what you question or may feel. If you like, I will explain.. Let me know.. Thx for the post and the thread!!

Actually....I no longer have any questions left for Metaphysical issues. The way I look at things is....if there is a GOD....then he better be prepared for a good bitching out. If not....I am not a person who needs to believe in a GOD or afterlife to keep sane.

I know that the majority of people have a very hard time coming to terms with death and the thought of non-existance is terrifing to some....not to me. Personally....i have seen so many things that I believe anythings possible...but I will not be so blind as to not realise all the lies and agendas that man has used in the name of GOD. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


I totally agree. Man has destroyed and perverted God's message. Foul things in history in The Name of God..But some have kept "The Faith" I hope your peace is everlasting my friend.. Take Care...

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
Another bit of proof....look up the First Responders Guide that is given to all Firefighters and Police by FEMA. This guide specifically has a section that deals with protocols as they apply to procedures to be taken in the event of a Crash by an Extra-Terestrial Craft.

That's only proof that one of the authors thought it was interesting to have that chapter.

That guide is not (and, as far as I could see, never was) given to all firefighters and police by FEMA, it was only used in some firefighters' schools.

There's a long thread about it somewhere.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
Another bit of proof....look up the First Responders Guide that is given to all Firefighters and Police by FEMA. This guide specifically has a section that deals with protocols as they apply to procedures to be taken in the event of a Crash by an Extra-Terestrial Craft.

It talks about possible radiation and Bio-hazzard threats...and how HAZMAT gear is a MUST....and how to cordon off an area while awaiting special agencies of military units...that will take over after arriving on scene.

THIS IS NO JOKE! You can look it up. Split Infinity

That's simply proof that the people who put together that First Responders Guide think the it is possible that situation may occur someday -- as do I think it is at least possible (and so do many other people who are otherwise skeptical about alien visitation).

However, that really isn't proof that alien visitation is actually happening or has happened. There is nothing wrong with have contingency plans for "what if" scenarios.

Here is that thread from 2009 about the "Fire Officer's Guide to Disaster Control" book.

According to one of the authors (the only living one, the other has died some years ago), they wrote the manual and got it published. Later, the book was a required text in the National Fire Academy's "Degrees at a Distance Program", taught through seven colleges and universities throughout the USA, it was required reading for the "Disaster and Fire Defense Planning" course.

PS: re-reading that old thread reminded me that I have forgotten that I haven't looked at all the investigation possibilities for this case.