It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Will proof ever be good enough for those non believers?

page: 1
3
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 12:10 PM
link   
I had to get this off my chest. I'm not saying I'm a believer of aliens/UFO's but I am open to the idea and will take each video/photo with a pinch of salt and a open mind.
But when will proof ever be enough? Even if we had the best proof out there, I don't know what, maybe Government or something sharing information that proves we aren't alone in the universe. But will the debunkers still find ways to prove the video/photo/speech is fake.
Is the only way non-believers will believe is after they have been abducted/ seen something with their own eyes or will they still say they were dreaming/ gone mad.
I'm not ranting at those debunkers. Because anything is possible. I just wanted to see what people thought about it. Because in my eyes nothing will ever be good enough for those who choose not to believe.
These days its hard to decide what is real and what is fake. What with all these CGI videos being made and edited photos out there.
Non-believers, if we are truly not alone, what proof would be good enough if it came along?
I hope this doesn't come across as me slating debunkers but I'm interested in hearing your points of view about this subject.
Not just for aliens but for anything different, I.E ghosts/bigfoot/ Godzilla




posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 12:21 PM
link   
Proof is a strong word that is often over used.. proof is conclusive, evidence isn't ..

The evidence usually presented could be anything, and there always seems to be a plausible, rational explanation that can be attributed.. so my point is, why go for the fanciful UFO stamp when it could also be a million other things presented in these pieces of evidence? ..

I believe in UFOs but in order for it to be accepted broadly it has to be proof, not inconclusive evidence...

On that note .. PEOPLE NEED TO STOP OVER-USING THE WORD PROOF!


Edit: to answer the direct question

In my case, video wouldn't be proof, it would never be proof because video can be forged too easily. For me, it would need to be physical evidence of some sort that can't be attributed to something mundane.. Otherwise, each case will go into piles of "Probably isn't" or "Could possibly be" but never in the "Is" pile.
edit on 25-8-2011 by miniatus because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 12:24 PM
link   
Same thing Christians say about Atheists...

The only correct way to discern information is by doing what you said, taking each and every bit of info with a grain (or two) of salt.

"True" and "False".. nothing but 1s and 0s to me. The human mind is a biological computer, it is not meant to have the same operating software running on it forever. It must be upgraded. When you are a child you believe something, and then you are proved wrong so you believe something else. Then later on you are proven wrong again, only to go from one theory to the next, each time thinking you have found the right one.

This is "finite" enlightenment. Thinking you have arrived, found the right answer, keeps you from actually finding the right answer.. there is no answer.

Enlightenment is about admitting there is no truth, your mind, like a computer, should store information, and when new information arrives that negates old information, it is simply replaced. Sooner or later, that new information will be replaced too.
edit on 25-8-2011 by ravenoch because: Typo



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 12:26 PM
link   
This thought crosses my mind every day.

**FULL DISCLOSURE**

I am a believer, plain and simple. I have never had any real experiences minus a few ghost type encounters and the occasional light in the sky. The lights in the sky I am sure there were reasonable explanations, I just ever bothered to find them, just chalked them up as weird.

There are some peple in the world that nothing will ever be good enough. Even if they do get abducted, they will believe that it was the govt taking them to some remote lab and just used the ruse of aien abduction.

On the other side of the cin, there are those who believe whole heartedly and blindly. They see Venus on a clear morning and believe that it must be the mother ship To them the Goodyear blimp is really an alien craft disguised as the Goodyear blimp t avoid detection.

With all of that being said, it is imprtant to approach every piece of evidence from a skeptical point of view. If there is a reasonable explanation, I am willing to be reasonable as well and go along with it. I have spent penty of time debunking alleged evidence that I wanted to be true so bad. But in order to be a believer, and if you want others t believe, yu have t use their glasses to analyze the data.

There are cases here on ATS that are generally thought of to be hoaxes and the 'experts' here (ie they use wikipedia) will throw every thing into the fire to try and prove it wrong, but at the end of the day, there is still no reasonable explanation. Thse are good days. At the same time there are cases that ATS has labelled hoaxes that in my view, still might be true, its just the preponderence of the evidence lies with hoax.

I tell many people, ignore the trolls, ignore the experts. Compile all of the evidence and data for yourself, and ask yourself what do you believe?

Why?
Becasue what you beleve is probably true.



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 12:30 PM
link   
That would depend on the quality of the proof , if it was irrefutable then it would be good enough for everyone ....even believers need proof , that is if they are serious about the subject .



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 12:31 PM
link   
^+1 y@oudidntseeme
I also take this from the 'more rational view. I am even slightly more inclined believer than a skeptic. But I dont think one should post everyday videos and say 'oh a UFO'

Some people mock at UFO Hunters. Why? They do not take these everday pictures here you see as anything but misenterpretations and hoaxes? Neither do it. They take real cases with lots of material or witnesses. So I think this is a good approach, taking and accepting the possibility from just the biggest UFO cases. Not posting everyday videos and 'UFO good footage' ..
edit on 25-8-2011 by Imtor because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 12:31 PM
link   
They will believe when they get here and by then it will be too late



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 12:34 PM
link   
reply to post by Molimo
 




post by Molimo
They will believe when they get here and by then it will be too late

Why too late ? , does ET have an evil plan for those who didn't believe before they arrived .



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 12:42 PM
link   
Non believers fall into many categories - those that will believe it when they see it, those that believe it to be something else entirely and those like you who don't commit either way because you are waiting for more proof.

You can't force somebody else to believe in something that you do. I'm sure that 'TPTB' haven't spent 60 years getting billions to believe in alien life for nothing. Everything in this field has been manufactured by 'them'. Several prominent researchers are even concluding, after years of research, that they are demons like I believe.

So there you go. You want them to be extraterrestrial life - I know that they are not.

Back to square one



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 12:46 PM
link   

Originally posted by avvie
Is the only way non-believers will believe is after they have been abducted/ seen something with their own eyes or will they still say they were dreaming/ gone mad.


I think your looking at this the wrong way. While you think those "evil debunkers" must be holding you believer types back, it is the other way around. I often here your type cry and whine about what it will take to make a "debunker" (which is really just a normal person with common sense, really) believe what you want them to believe, then go on to make some ridiculous and ignorant statement like you have above. Just stop, think about it and then speak. Anyone with their wits about them, even if they want to believe, would be an ignorant fool to take the current evidence available and subscribe to any of the alien theories that people push on here daily. however, if I didn't have common sense, reason and logic on my side I can see how I might read some of the stuff on the internet and fall for it.

Those 'debunkers" that are so under your skin are actually your best ally when it comes to finding the truth. You need them, trust me.


Because in my eyes nothing will ever be good enough for those who choose not to believe.


Well, then you need a new pair of glasses, but a lot of you suffer from poor eyesight, so I forgive you. The average "debunker" doesn't "choose" not to believe. In fact, you will be hard pressed to find anyone who wants to believe more than your average "debunker". But they have a solid head on their shoulders, and aren't going to fall for some of the things that others fall for, especially when common sense tells them it isn't what it appears to be. "Debunkers" want to be wrong, trust me.


These days its hard to decide what is real and what is fake. What with all these CGI videos being made and edited photos out there.


No, it is not. One needs ZERO cgi or photo experience to protect themselves from utter rubbish as long as they have common sense, reason and logic on their side.


Non-believers, if we are truly not alone, what proof would be good enough if it came along?


That's an easy one. Proof would have to stand up to common sense, reason and logic. If it fails in any of those three areas it is usually junk.



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 12:47 PM
link   
reply to post by WhoKnows100
 




post by WhoKnows100
Several prominent researchers are even concluding, after years of research, that they are demons like I believe.

Point 1 ... Could you name those Several prominent researchers .
Point 2... What is going on just recently with people claiming Aliens are demons



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 12:47 PM
link   
proof is when someone cannot deny that what put infront of them is what it is....it looks like a duck, it waddles like a duck, it swims, tastes and it goes quack like a duck so it must be a duck. while i think theres intelligent life out there i aint seen any myself (around here low cloud is the norm so marvin the martian could be a few hundred feet higher and i'd never know) so i must put the possibility down as under 100% but when i see one i'll goto 100%



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 12:59 PM
link   
reply to post by MainLineThis
 


Hang on, i never claimed i was a believer i said i was open to the idea that there are things out there which don't seem believable, and i also said i wasn't slating debunkers. I just asked a question. I have seen and felt things that are extraordinary and that i can't explain. Are they ghosts/ UFO's?? I don't know, i see videos all the time of aliens/UFO'S are they real? Again i don't know. I wasn't trying to put a downer on those debunkers. I'm not like that, you must have took my statement the wrong way. I just wanted to know what proof/evidence would be enough for some people. I agree with your statement about debunkers are normal people with common sense who might want to believe but are not quick to believe that their are such things out there. I never called them evil either.
I still find myself finding rational things and pointing out things which show that what we thought was an UFO/ alien is actually something much more reasonable. I asked a simple question not meaning to upset or hurt anyone. And if you took it in the wrong way i'm sorry. I guess i'm not so good at wording things.



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 01:00 PM
link   

Originally posted by Maxatoria
proof is when someone cannot deny that what put infront of them is what it is....it looks like a duck, it waddles like a duck, it swims, tastes and it goes quack like a duck so it must be a duck.


The problem with this philosophy is that not many if anyone at all can definetly say what an extraterrestrial looks like, sounds like, walks like, tastes like etc. That is why there is such brad speculation. Many people just want to believe, so they will take any evidence as good evidence. In fact not much evidence actually is good. Most of it is pretty bad.

We have to speculate as to what an ET, or Bigfoot, or ghost etc etc...looks like, sounds like.....
And even then, how do we really know? I've seen some really good duck decoys at a lake once, but alas they were not real ducks at all, just wooden replicas.



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 01:06 PM
link   
reply to post by avvie
 


Well its very simple really . I myself believe that there is a very strong possibility that we are not alone in the universe, but I have only the same questionable and circumstantial evidence to go on as the next fellow as to wether or not alien beings are or have ever visited our planet.

However, the answer to what proof will be enough to sway a non believer is very simple. Undeniable proof, will ONLY come about when or if it gets to the stage where you cannot look up at a night sky, or into a blue sky day, without seeing the evidence for yourself. Undeniable proof will only come about when the tv chat shows normaly featuring popstars and celebrities, are instead graced by aliens willing to show themselves to the masses.

In short, it would take the presence of alien species , in our every day lives, to prove to the most hardcore nay sayers , that aliens exist or that they have visited.

However, I do not see this as an entirely bad thing, because theres a very important point to consider here, and it may not be to your liking.

Some believers are obsessed with calling flimsy , unsubstantiated rumour, unconnected government reports and paperwork, and even meditation and hippy cultural practices, "proof" of the existance of aliens. While I myself am a believer to an extent, I would rather be surrounded by skeptics , who at least understand the value, the all consuming importance of forensic, and empirical evidence when making a claim. Im not saying there are not skeptics who disbelieve on flimsy pretexts, but my GOD are there some utter numbnuts in the believer camp.

For instance, there are those who think that Steven Greer is some sort of damned visionary. However, believer or no, accepting that guys utterly unproven methods as proof makes a person liable to be shot for being to dumb to live, and for good reason.

You see what I am getting at I hope? I believe, but I also accept that there is no actual, bullet proof evidence for it. Theres some pretty interesting circumstantial evidence, but further than that, there is no way to speak truth and claim otherwise in the same breath.



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 01:07 PM
link   
reply to post by gortex
 


Maybe not all but i believe some of them they might want to harvest us and there is evidence for it if you search



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 01:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
Everything in this field has been manufactured by 'them'. Several prominent researchers are even concluding, after years of research, that they are demons like I believe.


This crap that aliens are demons... can be only product of a religious brainwashing. Just stop. Your definition of demons is also scientist who discovered something and the poor religiously blinded people thought it is black magic and burned ;evil witches; Im sorry those like you are lost cause

If there are any beings beneath our feet it's not demons, even if they were really reptoid you would call them demons for looking ugly and scary? Dont even wanna comment such posters any further..



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 02:42 PM
link   
will proof ever be good enough for those non believers?

i don't think it will ever. not in this age with this software technology, and esp. not where a great deal of conspiracists are alert and ready to point at the skies and yell "project bluebeam!", "haarp!" etc.



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 02:45 PM
link   
reply to post by Imtor
 


yeah, tell me about that one. there's no such thing as a demon to begin with. the statistical chance for intelligent life to exist somewhere in such a vast universe would beat the hell out of that folkloric nonsense.



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 04:02 PM
link   
The notion of "proof " is a relative condition in peoples minds that requires them to define- What constitutes "proof? " That would make them accept that space alien visitations here on Earth are a given fact.

Certainly, their will be people on both sides of fence that will deny certain "proofs " according to there own thoughts and feelings on the UFO engima.

Take for example- Some peoples denial that President Obama has a legal birth certificate.

Cheers,

Erno86



new topics

top topics



 
3
<<   2 >>

log in

join