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It's fairly obvious why people don't work.

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posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 10:24 AM
reply to post by dolphinfan

I'm sure if all blind people were as gifted as Stevie Wonder, and all deaf people were as gifted as Beethovan, there would be no problem. Van Gogh was only able to paint because he received a weekly stipend from his brother Theo. You give extreme examples, and I could go on with your list but I've made my point clear.

What I recognize, is a punitive attitude towards the poor and disabled. Also a belief that physicians somehow manipulate SS documents to certify someone as disabled when they are not. You accuse physicians of perpetrating fraud, and of being easily manipulated by persons wishing to commit fraud.
That is insulting.

In your work with the handicapped, you see them out and working, and have somehow jumped to the conclusion that this ability applies to all those on disability. Unfortunately, it doesn't. Whether you want to admit it or not, most people on disability are truly disabled.

Should we acquiesce to "Dolphin Fan has determined that people aren't really disabled, and consequently we are stopping all disability benefits", or do you think those determinations are best suited to be made by the patient and his/her physicians?

Again, I ask you, if you know of a specific situation where someone is receiving disability who shouldn't be, report them.

If you don't, then you are just spreading gossip and rumor.

posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 11:40 AM
reply to post by ladyinwaiting

I've done more than report them, I have sued them. Here is a summary of how it works where someone is able to rip off both the state and a private employer and the state and the "disability advocates" work to enable the rip off.

An extremely bright gent working for me begins to have spotty attendance and his work is slipping. After a number of conversations, the problem does not get any better.

He simply stops coming to work. I call him every day and send him e-mails every day for a week with no response. Legally he has abandoned his job and has essentially quit.

I send him a certified letter informing him of that fact and terminate his employment further informing him that I will be shipping his stuff to his home address.

The next day I get a call from his disability rights attorney. He has severe depression and a mood disorder and will be unable to attend to his work for a while and that I need to work with him until he can get his disorders under control. No problem, I tell his attorney that I'll give him a month, that it would be great if he can do a bit of work from home, but if not, I understand but he will have to call me once a week to check in so that I can see how its going. At this stage I am seeking to get him back to work and will do what I can to get him better and be flexible. OK - no problem.

The month goes by without him calling or returning calls and on the 30th day he shows up for work. He sits in his office, doing nothing and tells folks that they can not ask him to do anything or he may hurt himself. I have our lawyers and HR tell him to go home if he is in that condition.

I place him on short-term disability - 90 days with a continuation of full benefits and 70% pay. Now he is off of work for essentially 4 months getting paid with full benefits.

About once every two weeks he shows up to work, makes himself seen (an effort to show that he is making an effort) and goes home. During one of these visits he tells me that he is on SSI as well as the short-term disability due to his depression. The gent is pulling in $80K a year on disability but he was able to qualify for SSI because he is not "able to work full time".

After the three months I seek to terminate his employment absent a doctor's note. I get a call from his lawyer and the state EEOC demanding a meeting. They inform me that I can not terminate him due to his "disability". I place him on long term disability. 6 months, 1/2 pay and he has to pay 1/2 of his insurance.

I get served that I'm being sued for placing him on disability, despite the fact that he is claiming disability. The state further comes into the firm with a document request for all folks who have been placed on disability over the past 7 years (the legal requirement for document retention - in other words, every thing we have). We supply the documents. That was merely an intimidation tactic, but with a supeona, you must play ball.

The six months go by, he will not come back to work. He sues, claiming that in the ten years he had been with the firm he never took a sick day, worked hundreds of hours of overtime and was on call for his job and was never compensated for it. He was a salaried gent, so the on-call and overtime business did not fly, but he sued for it anyway. I get another document request for all attendance records for the firm (over 2000 people all over the world).

The state was far more aggressive than his personal attorney, was supportive of him double dipping into the SSI pool as well as getting paid. No problem. He had paid into the systems and was entitled to it. The company was very profitable and could easily afford to pay him. They find inconsistencys in the attendance records and claim that his case is just - that he never did take vacation or sick time in ten years. They provide me with a lump sum that would cover those days, his legal fees and time and suffering dealing with me.

My firm refuses to settle. We go to court and find out that he is operating a dog training/boarding business out of house and has been spending the time building it out and establishing it, all the while collecting SSI and disability payments of varying levels.

He loses his suit and his business which was out of his home is attached by a judgement against him. He declares bankrupcy and keeps his house and business.

Hundreds of hours of unproductive time spent by a private firm, this gent receiving significant assistance by the state welfare organization, who were admittedly facilitating his breaking the law.

Is that an extreme case? No it is not. It happens every day and firms simply pay the person off and get on with business.

Insulting that doctor's place folks on disability inappropriately? Hardly. folks will call the doctor every day, demand urgent appointments, claim improper or insufficent treatment and the doctor's will put them on disability just to make them go away.

It is all about the bias and the bias on the part of the state is that these people can't work. The bias should be that they can work.

The feds and state governments are not remotely interested in pursuing welfare and social security fraud. Sure they'll put out some case where they "cracked down" but are not interested in the least because their "clients" receiving assistance make the budgets larger and ensure their employment. Were nobody on welfare they would all lose their jobs. The very last thing that the state health and human services organization wants is for nobody to be on welfare or needing any assistance.

posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 01:09 PM
reply to post by filosophia

I would rather go about it the same way the uber rich do, find every possible way not to pay in. Like running my own business without the INC or LLC filing, or working under the table with a small business, or sub contract and not do the 1099, you know this is possible, right? That is the way to go. Just like the uber rich you find your loopholes or completely keep your cash you earned illegally, why not? It seems that is truly the only way to get ahead is by stepping on the backs of someone (if you follow the corporate model). Each one of us citizens just need to adopt the corporate model, IMHO. I will be stashing that money somewhere, too, in a secured safe in my home and arm myself to the hilt with firearms, why should I keep it in any bank when I have the full ability to protect it myself, why should I pay some lame ass bank to protect it? What can The FDCA do that I can't? I can get a fireproof, safecrack proof safe myself and keep myself armed and nobody will ever be able to touch (OR LOSE) my money, WTH do I or should I need an fdca insurer to do this for me? Not when I can do it myslf, I can also pay for homeowners insurance so if my home is destroyed I wouldn't have to use the money in my safe for repairs. The only way to get ahead is play their game and follow their rules, which means there are no rules!

posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 01:15 PM
reply to post by dolphinfan

I agree with you, they hardly EVER actually investigate or prosecute those fraudently collecting welfare/ SS. I have turned a person in and instead they want to harass and investigate me. It is like calling the cops for a break in and they check to see if you have warrants.

But I do only know 1 person that actually is committing fraud that I turned in. (in my whole life) They basically didn't give a F about it though. I don't beleive there is a serious case that's been turned into them that they took seriously.

posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 09:09 PM
reply to post by dolphinfan

Surely I applaud you for making a report on someone you were convinced wasn't disabled. Everyone should. I have many patients in my office on disability, and should I ever learn of such a situation, I will talk with them about it, and give them a chance to clear it up.

The likely 1 or 2% of people who are fraudulent make matters more difficult for those who are truly disabled, or in need of temporary assistance.

I don't, however, believe for one minute that physicians approve disability to "get rid of someone". That's simply not true. It's a pain in the rear to fill out all those forms, and sometimes you are subpoenaed to court, and it's just a pain. It's not a matter taken lightly.

posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 09:27 PM
reply to post by ldyserenity

You are very much mistaken. These people are fined and prosecuted everyday. Every day.

You stated above to get ahead you sometimes have to "step on other peoples backs", --- itsn't that what you said? .... so with that kind of moral code, it seems contradictory to find fault with someone who defrauds the government. Seems a tad hypocritical.

"There are no rules", isn't that what you said?

Rather incongruous, to be so apparently furious with those on disability, when you have no personal knowledge or information concerning their circumstances, and when you so readily (shockingly) admit to the rather brutish and ill conceived philosophy you stated above.

posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 10:37 AM
reply to post by ladyinwaiting

There may be cases of folks getting jammed up for fraud, but it is a systemic problem.

New York, one of the 5 states with the highest rates of fraud, has refused to prosecute Medicaid fraud cases and is now being sued by the feds. Then attorney general now governor, Andrew Cuomo has not deemed Medicaid fraud a priority.

"A year after a congressional audit exposed exorbitant fraud and abuse in the federal government’s insurance program for the poor, the Justice Department is suing New York City for cheating it out of tens of millions of dollars in the last decade.

Corruption in the Medicaid program is nothing new but the complaint, filed this week by the U.S. Attorney in Manhattan, indicates the problem is much worst than previously reported. Federal authorities claim that nearly 18,000 people in the city received costly, taxpayer-financed personal care services that should not have been covered or weren’t medically necessary.

The government was billed between $75,000 to $150,000 a year for the special services that include 24-hour aides that help with housecleaning, shopping, bathing and other personal needs. The city routinely reauthorized the care without obtaining the required assessment from a physician, according to the lawsuit which was filed after a whistleblower complaint. In some cases, the city actually overruled medical professionals and social workers to grant the benefit." vestigateprosecute/

Medicaid and Medicare fraud are very difficult to calculate due to poor reporting, but the amount on a national level is assumed to be in the $63bn to $90bn range. Some estimates have 1 out of every $20 dollars spent on Medicaid goes to fraud. Lower estimates have it at around 7%.

Medicaid is used by poor people. The government is not interested in prosecuting someone who is below the poverty line who is bilking Medicaid for a couple of hundred bucks a month. Can you imagine the public outcry were the government to seriously crack down on these folks? The liberal media would be out of their minds. Bailing out the banker, while hammering the single mom who is squeezing a few bucks out of Medicaid?

posted on Sep, 6 2011 @ 06:57 PM
reply to post by King Loki

This is BULL. Refunds are paid to companies for over paying taxes. So what! Who cares what the refunds are for any business. If they over paid, they've got a refund coming. My refund last year was around $6000.What does that have to do with the amount I had to pay in. This is just the way liberals make people think that large companies get tax breaks. There are lots of low income earners who are actually getting back more than they paid in. Those are the real freeloaders.

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