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Through the eyes of Atheism

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posted on Aug, 29 2011 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by Astyanax
 





Instead, it obliges us to face life with courage, dignity and responsibility – knowing it is short, knowing it is painful, knowing that we are mere animals, and knowing, in the end, that the only meaning we take out of life is whatever meaning we bring to it in the first place.


If atheism is correct it obliges no such thing.

There is no right or wrong.

Cowardice, indignity and irresponsibility are equally valid.

It will be up to each individual to decide what they want.

Some day, you will be ridiculed as a moral idealist by a younger generation.




posted on Aug, 29 2011 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by dusty1
It will be up to each individual to decide what they want.
Yes, you've got it. However, if your freedom encroaches on mine, not only will I let you know, others concerned about their own freedom will let you know. We will then make laws, just so you'll know.

Oldest religion - "Have a good time"
2nd oldest religion - "Have a good time and don't hurt anyone"
edit on 29-8-2011 by gentledissident because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 30 2011 @ 12:04 AM
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reply to post by dusty1
 

You talk as if atheism was invented yesterday.

You talk as if your prejudices regarding atheists were actually true.

You talk like a person who has never read Sartre.

There is a difference between atheism and amorality. Those who lack an autonomous personal morality will never understand this difference. On balance, it is probably better for society to let such people stay religious. They are still dangerous, but at least it makes them somewhat amenable to control.

Decent people, on the other hand, don’t need an Ogre in Heaven to keep them good and honest.



posted on Aug, 31 2011 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by Astyanax
 





You talk as if atheism was invented yesterday.


Atheism used to be a belief of a small minority.

That is changing.

I go to an event every year in which hundreds of thousands of people attend. The grass always looks great to start with. A few people start to go off the pathways and walk on the grass, no big deal. Then more and more people do it and at the end, the lawn is pretty much just dirt.

The activity of a minority becomes the activity of the majority with destructive consequences.





You talk as if your prejudices regarding atheists were actually true.


People are people.

If a person is greedy and they want what belongs to someone else, they will justify it, whether they claim to be an Atheist or Christian.

I do believe that societal pressure influences individual behavior to a degree.

Divorce used to be frowned upon, now it is acceptable and common.




You talk like a person who has never read Sartre.


Oui.


There is a difference between atheism and amorality. Those who lack an autonomous personal morality will never understand this difference.



You seem to suffer from a little bit of "me too".

I think that you may very well be a good and decent person.

However, I believe that Atheists have still been shaped by thousands of years of religious teachings, you seem self conscious of wanting to prove that you can still be good.

I see what's coming.

Many cultures were almost laughingly strict, but look what has happened to the entertainment industry, soon there will be no standards.

I see a time when your generation of Atheists who still cling to what is good and decent, will be mocked by a younger generation who decide take it to the next level.



I think we are already starting to see the effects of evolutionary teachings from universities.

Who runs the global multinational corporations and financial institutions today?

Old guys, who used to be young guys, who learned their craft at universities.

The wreckage these large corporations leave on the people of this planet is self evident.



Survival of the fittest baby!




Decent people, on the other hand, don’t need an Ogre in Heaven to keep them good and honest.


Almost no one exceeds the speed limit when a police officer is around.

Many don't exceed the speed limit because a police officer might be around.

Police can't be everywhere at once, but not knowing where or when is a deterrent.

Even good and decent people can have a lead foot at times.

edit on 31-8-2011 by dusty1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 31 2011 @ 11:04 PM
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reply to post by dusty1
 

Oh ye of little faith.

Do you think promoting paranoia will prevent your fears from becoming a realty? It's not the cure, it's the cause.



posted on Aug, 31 2011 @ 11:32 PM
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reply to post by gentledissident
 





Oh ye of little faith. Do you think promoting paranoia will prevent your fears from becoming a realty? It's not the cure, it's the cause.


I have a great deal of faith.

The religions of this world will be destroyed, it is the thread that is holding the whole facade together.



I have no fear.

It has already been prophesied.




I like Cheap Trick BTW.


Oh yeah,

Free

Your

Mind.........

edit on 31-8-2011 by dusty1 because: gentledissident chose the blue pill



posted on Aug, 31 2011 @ 11:57 PM
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reply to post by dusty1
 

At least your arguments are thoughtful.



Atheism used to be a belief of a small minority. That is changing.

In America, perhaps. Worldwide, nothing of the kind is happening.

The religious impulse appears to be ingrained in humans. Ancient beliefs may be crumbling, but they are constantly being replaced by new ones. From Japanese race-cults to bizarre African meldings of Christianity and tribal magic, from Californian New Age claptrap to Latin American liberation theology, from Santeria to Indian god-man cults, faith is alive and thriving around the world. And of course, the Islamic congregation grows daily larger, more fervent and vociferous.

Some belief-systems are secular. Theories of political economy, such as Marxism and liberal capitalism, cannot be proved; they must be taken on faith. And these beliefs, too, have moral dimensions and consequences.

You are mistaking the perceived decline of Christianity in the West for the rise of atheism. But atheism will always be a minority attitude. It is, in fact, an elite attitude. Even societies where it is the dominant reported attitude are elite societies – rich, well-ordered ones like Japan and the Scandinavian countries where the national IQ is higher than the global average. For the rest of the world, it’s incense and chanting as usual. People need their religion, and in some form or other they will have it.

The historical fate of Buddhism illustrates the truth of this. While not overtly atheistic, Buddhism in its original form regards the existence of gods, heavens, hells, etc. as an irrelevancy. The tradition informs us that, as a moral guide for societies, it had already failed in the Buddha’s own lifetime; near the end of his life, the Buddha himself acknowledged that his Way had not brought peace and righteousness to societies whose rulers had adopted it, nor had it impelled the people at large to turn away from the gods and from religious belief. After the master’s death, Buddhism split into two great streams, Mahayana and Theravada. The former quickly evolved elements of personal salvation and protection, worship, etc., becoming, for the vast majority of adherents, indistinguishable from any other religion. The latter has always coexisted with folk beliefs, astrology, the worship of Hindu gods and other means by which Theravadin provide themselves with the consolations of faith their religion lacks. Only a very few Buddhists in any country actually follow the Buddha’s Way; they are all, of necessity, monks and nuns.


I do believe that societal pressure influences individual behavior to a degree.


Divorce used to be frowned upon, now it is acceptable and common.


I believe that Atheists have still been shaped by thousands of years of religious teachings... I see what's coming... look what has happened to the entertainment industry, soon there will be no standards... your generation of Atheists who still cling to what is good and decent, will be mocked by a younger generation who decide take it to the next level.

There are a hidden assumption in all these statements. It is that religion is the source of our moral standards and behaviour. It is false.

Loyalty, honesty, fairness and justice, kindness, generosity, moral and physical courage and all the other virtues are innate in us. Other social primates also exhibit these virtues. Without them, we could not live in social groups of any kind; even nuclear families would fall apart. The source of moral behaviour is not religious but social and biological.

Different societies evolve to prize and promote different forms of behaviour. We call this culture. The behaviour promoted varies; thus one society’s morals will differ from another’s. Culture (of which religion is an aspect) actually distorts instinctive behaviour, which is why one society’s good is another society’s evil.

I’m afraid your argument is based on the assumption that your society and your religion are some kind of human ideal. They are not. From the point of view of an Easterner like myself, the way Western societies treat the elderly is heartless, wicked and stupid. That’s just one example; I could provide more, if you like.


edit on 1/9/11 by Astyanax because: of typos.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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If you want to understand Atheism, just think of something that you don't believe in and then THAT feeling is what Atheism feels like.

Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy, etc.



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by Catatonic
Why is it so important to understand atheism? Just be well assured that we are no threat to your god.


I don't believe it is important to understand atheism at all. Unless you are an Atheist.



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs
I just think it's important to know, what we're looking at, if atheism is correct ? If I look at the world through the eyes of atheism ? Doesn't man suddenly become far less, than what he has over millennia, come to believe himself to be ? Atheism says, there is nothing spiritual about existence and that man does not have a soul.
That anything paranormal is all BS and this mundane existance, has come about for however long. So life is simply a space between two nothings.
Basically, it seems as though atheism, takes the rules of empirical science to far and applies them to life.
Science being the study of observable phenomena.
Atheism dosn't believe anything out of the ordinary ever does or ever has happened. But isn't it out of the ordinary, for mankind to have come into this existence, and make up
a whole part of himself that says the exact opposite? If mankind only evolved some how ? Why would he evolve
with a belief in deitys ?

Atheism limits this existance to things it finds rational. But is that even rational ?



Originally posted by randyvs

Originally posted by Catatonic
Why is it so important to understand atheism? Just be well assured that we are no threat to your god.


I don't believe it is important to understand atheism at all. Unless you are an Atheist.


Then, why did you start this thread?



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 10:35 PM
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reply to post by Astyanax
 





Decent people, on the other hand, don’t need an Ogre in Heaven to keep them good and honest


While this particular statement, is worthless and moot, when we consider the fact, that no one worships or believes in " Ogres in Heaven " . Scripture has answered this hypocrisy thousands of years before you and your thoughts were formed. In Genesis a world is recorded , that is so full of violence and sexual immorality, That it broke Gods heart and so he sent the flood. I believe Atheism is degenerate because God is the law giver and those who do not wish to live by the law. Shall die by the law. The world God destroyed became such over many
generations of disbelief in mankind for his God. And from the wicked having influenced him in the age old war between good and evil. For the wicked do know he exists, for they are at war with him. They all know the time is short.

The fool say's there is no God ! Then comes death then judgement.



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by gentledissident
 





Then, why did you start this thread?


For atheists of course. Coffee ?



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 02:13 AM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


You wrote (on 'an ogre i heaven'):

["While this particular statement, is worthless and moot,...."]

only on the following assumption.....

Quote continued: ["......when we consider the fact,....."]

where the word 'when' stands out. However, this 'when' is in turn depending on the questionable 'fact' of....

Quote: ["that no one worships or believes in " Ogres in Heaven " ."]

which only is a claim based on...

Quote: ["that no one worships or believes in " Ogres in Heaven " ."]

maybe not knowingly, but....

Quote: ["Scripture has answered this hypocrisy thousands of years before you and your thoughts were formed."]

Ending with the premises proving themselves eventually (though not surprisingly).

****

Quote: ["In Genesis a world is recorded ,"]

From a rational perspective genesis 1 - 3 is non-sense.

Quote: ["I believe Atheism is degenerate because God is the law giver and those who do not wish to live by the law."]

You are ofcourse free to have faith in any self-proclaimed authority of your choice. Your subjective faith however doesn't make anything 'true'.

Quote: ["And from the wicked having influenced him in the age old war between good and evil."]

"Wicked" on certain premises only, and presented with elitist attitudes.

Quote: ["For the wicked do know he exists,"]

Postulated 'absolute' on behalf of the alleged 'wicked'.

Quote: ["They all know the time is short."]

As above.

Quote: ["The fool say's there is no God !"]

And 'fools' are defined as ......? Rational individuals disagreeing with you?

Quote: ["Then comes death then judgement."]

An assumption to scare people to fall in step.

******

I took the long way around with this post; I could ofcourse have said instead: "Another circular sermon". But I wanted everybody to be able to follow it step by step, as logic per se isn't the first choice of the followers of this special mythological manual.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 03:01 AM
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I think my initial response to this thread was excessively negative. I also used to have a very negative attitude towards atheism, but I feel that it is gradually softening; my time on ATS has actually really helped with that.

I will say that I think atheists have both as much a requirement for, and a right to, love and acceptance as anyone else. I will also say that I think I've unfairly and inappropriately generalised about what atheism is, in the past; it can mean a whole lot of things.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 03:19 AM
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One thing I do know as a Christian, is that the love of God, like the Spirit of God is free, radically free. It's also indistinguishable from the free gift that is life itself but by seeking out a relationship with God, as a power greater than self, the circle is joined, and our appreciation and gratitude has a direction, which only increases the flow.

Without recognition of God as our source, to whomever or what are we to be grateful for the free gift that is life itself?

To me an atheist appears very selfish and self centered.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 03:39 AM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


You wrote:

["Without recognition of God as our source, to whomever or what are we to be grateful for the free gift that is life itself?"]

We don't all share your assumptions, so you have YOUR answer, the rest of us different answers, which includes the "flying spaghetti monster" or simply "nothing". Endless doctrinal repetitions based on your mythological manual is only propaganda.

Quote: [" To me an atheist appears very selfish and self centered."]

You are entitled to your opinions. However if you wish to give them credibility, you need some validation. The subject of atheist ethics has already been chewed over in several threads going far beyond your present black/white postulate; but this is ofcourse convenient to ignore and, so we can start from square one for the umpteenth time, and take the whole reasoning chain all over.

MAYBE a 'soul' will be 'saved' THIS time. But more likely will ten people be repulsed by the simplistic invasive attitude.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by randyvs
 

What a load of twice-boiled Sunday-school cabbage. You don’t really expect a serious response to it, do you?

You won’t be getting one from me, at any rate.



edit on 12/9/11 by Astyanax because: of cabbage.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 08:30 AM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


To me an atheist appears very selfish and self centered.

That is probably because you would be very selfish and self-centred if you were an atheist. Some people seem to need the moral sanction of religion to keep them human. For their own sake and those around them, such people had best stay religious.

You’re welcome to go on misjudging the rest of the human race, too.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


To me an atheist appears very selfish and self centered.

That is probably because you would be very selfish and self-centred if you were an atheist. Some people seem to need the moral sanction of religion to keep them human. For their own sake and those around them, such people had best stay religious.

You’re welcome to go on misjudging the rest of the human race, too.


That's the problem. How could any of those living practically permanently in a self-contained, closed, self-affirming system ever learn anything of, what's going on outside that 'bubble'. One-way filters, one-way communication and methods to fit facts to predetermined answers.

But I agree with you, these people are probably safer in a religion, on the condition that any elitist claims are ignored.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 10:39 AM
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reply to post by Astyanax
 



Decent people, on the other hand, don’t need an Ogre in Heaven to keep them good and honest



Did you expect me to take this seriously ?
edit on 12-9-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



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