The way free will is seen in todays world

In today's world, it seems that free will is a concept to justify separation. Whether you call that separation good/bad, good/evil, black/white, moral/unmoral, right/wrong, etc/etc. How come free will never comes up when something good is happening? It seems as if free will is associated with people that have been perceived to do something bad or wrong. It almost has become a tool for people to condemn others in my opinion. Also in theology it is used to justify sending people to hell or permanent death (depending on what you believe). So in theory it is the concept of free will that is the problem. Giving someone free will isn't giving them two options and telling them they can choose either one but don't choose "bad" or else you will suffer. I don't know, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Free will seems to be relative to perception because what is bad to someone might be good to someone else depending on what you believe. So to say free will is this or that, is just saying what your opinion is and it really has nothing to do with reality. Like I said before, free will seems to be a concept to create a story in our minds about other people to justify our feelings and actions towards others.

Any action that is not expected from the collective or for the benefit of the collective is a "bad" action.

Moving to the middle of nowhere gets you labeled a recluse and schizoid. Just putting a no trespassing sign on your suburban cul-de-sac home has neighbors wondering what sort of evil things you are up to.

Step out of line and act boldly, even for the right reasons, and you are hit with reminders to stay in line. A construction worker who tackles a mugger may get thanks from the victim and even the police though that thanks is always followed by a beating of "that wasnt safe" "next time leave it to us" and other reminders to stay in your place.

Thanks to mass paranoia fostered and encouraged by the government and the media we are at in the middle of The Monsters are Due on Maple Street and rather than aliens from an invading species working the nerves it is our own government with a helping hand of media hysteria up on the hill watching us eat each other.

I think the parameters of free will are subjective to who are analyzing it at the time. To me, free will is exactly that. I choose to write this post, I choose to have hamburgers on the BBQ instead of on the frying pan, I choose to vote for a certain party over another.

The concept that people who make decisions freely regardless of their choices are bastardized by certain members of communities, churches, neighborhoods, etc... to make decisions the way these organizations and or groups of people want to is not free will but fascism.

It is a sad state of affairs when you look at it from the perspective that if we are allowed to make our own choices, why do different groups of people collectively defecate on them?

Great post S&F.

On a side note, I am fairly new here, what do the K and W represent in the name columns?

"Free will" Nuff said.

Freewill means I walk my path and look to my own soul. I can't show anyone else my path, except through metaphor and pave the way with clues. Everyone has their own path, their own truth. And it works both ways. I don't interfere with their path, do not force or impose. Each man is a brother, each woman a sister because we all have our place and our plan. We decide to walk or not, to use the clues we're given to find ourselves again. It's the anthesis of the corrupt conversion culture. Each person's vision of the All is his own and the sin is judging that path and attempting to subvert it. Opening a mind to look is a gift, forcing that mind to my belief is not.

I'm just curious--how do you (any/all) justify "free will" in the context of naturalism? Can an autonomous reason arise from a biologically-constructed "brain?" If so, how? If not, where does this "free will" come from? Or is it illusory?

Is this "reason," which we perceive as autonomous, just a tool of our biological will toward life and self-preservation, a tool used to navigate the complexity of the world, particularly socially?

It's because of free will one can imagine a number of options and hypothesize about the outcome of an option. After investigating several options one can make a choice which is best for it's survival or happiness. That way free will is a very real thing, it refers to the mechanism of thinking about different options and choosing one of those.

It is also a natural filter for the mind, to be able to recognize the good and the bad and keep the bad out. Those who seek to convince others have once been convinced by others there's no such thing as a filter. The danger in this is whatever is being said goes straight into the subconscious, is accepted without necessary critical thinking, the benefit is unity in thought as everyone would conform to the same truth.

If freewill is real and not just an illusion of freewill then why do people make New Year resolutions? And then break them? If freewill exists why are people fat or unhappy? Surely the world population would be happy if there was freewill.

We may beable to imagine a better world but does that make it so?
There is only one thing that can be chosen and that is where the attention is placed.

Originally posted by backwardluminary
I'm just curious--how do you (any/all) justify "free will" in the context of naturalism? Can an autonomous reason arise from a biologically-constructed "brain?" If so, how? If not, where does this "free will" come from? Or is it illusory?

The brain is a product of consciousness. Consciousness is primary to biology.

Consciousness and freewill are really synonyms.

Freewill is an inherent part of consciousness.

reply to post by Jezus


Exactly, the discerning part of your psyche that can analyze your choices and their consequences.

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by backwardluminary
I'm just curious--how do you (any/all) justify "free will" in the context of naturalism? Can an autonomous reason arise from a biologically-constructed "brain?" If so, how? If not, where does this "free will" come from? Or is it illusory?

The brain is a product of consciousness. Consciousness is primary to biology.

Consciousness and freewill are really synonyms.

Freewill is an inherent part of consciousness.

Explain how consciousness necessarily implies free will.

Freewill means will is free, but it is not yours.

And out of the confusion came forth..

I've put my mind on to the value of words. Sayings are very misinterpreted and not understood in our daily lives. We often say things we just took over from others but it is for us to see through the veil. To know when which words are appropriate se we nihilise the confusion of ourselves. People ask for this, to be set free out of the confusion. My mind has been taught sayings.

Everything finds its root in God. When are we worthy to speak?

We'll find the way and make the way law. If only more were introspective. It is might that is found within. Law. People have done terrible things. Any time is a time for forgiveness. May my family and my friends be protected and remain out of the grip of evil.

Why has free will become a topic anyway? Who started it?

Isn't it lovely to heal.

Evil and free will have got nothing in common

reply to post by Itisnowagain


By "free will" I am more specifically referring to the traditional meaning, which I would define as "autonomy of reason." Is the faculty of independent, personal reason able to operate, to any extent, independently of other forces? Do biological factors completely and totally control every single thought and action, or is there a sort of "dualism" by which reason attains a level of autonomy?

reply to post by backwardluminary


No there is no personnal, independant choice. It happens. There is no separate 'person' who can have freewill.

reply to post by backwardluminary


There is no separateness, it is illusionary. Universe is one lump, all acting as one wave.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


What is the purpose of this illusion?

And to what degree do you believe that separateness is illusory? Are people like different leaves on the same tree, each with a different perspective of a unified "reality?" Or do you believe that the unity is much deeper than that?