France's billionaires put US super rich to shame: "TAX US MORE"

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posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 03:28 AM
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Originally posted by Chrysalis
reply to post by Bluesma
 


May I remind you that the "Cour des Comptes" was lead by Philippe séguin from 2004 to his death in 2010 ?


Well, you don't need to, but go ahead. Your comment was refering to the latest reports, which were released under Migaud. So I refered to those reports, and the criticisms by the present leader of the Cour des Comptes.


And that guy was in the same party than Sarkozy, but i guess you don't care. And it's that same guy that criticised Sarkozy for having hired an extra 100 people at the Elysée. Who needs that many cooks, servants and nail polishers ?


It is rather a good thing that after his criticism, Sarkozy drastically cut down the spending at the Elysée the next year, enough to get the salutations of the next guy for it (who is not of the same party as Sarkozy!) He must be listening and reacting, I guess?



And he was also pinned as a survey / poll addict, ordering up to 3 polls a week. It must be a sign that he was confident his policies were beeing well received on the lower end.

A sign he was confident in the reception of his policies? I would say the opposite. He is gathering feedback- again, listening to the people's opinions.


Or what about these two advisors that while working for the ministry of health (a freemason) were still paid by Servier ?

Lots of the doctors and researchers are simultaneously working for different parts of the medical field.


That even if the molecule was deemed having no health benefits at all, they still used tax money to help sell it, even though it was an established fact that the med was dangerous. It is suspected to have caused over 500 deaths.


It was NOT deemed to have no health benefits at all! It was effective for specific serious problems, and a side effect of wieght loss was exploited by doctors wishing to please vain clients (at the risk of their health).
Social security paid for the prescriptions people filled, I can only guess that is what you mean? Because Servier is a private lab.
It was established that the medicine, taken outside of it's intended use, on patients without the corresponding health problems, is dangerous. Most active molecules ARE. Taking iron when you are enemic is good- taking iron when you have Hemochromatosis is bad, for example. Iron is not good or bad in itself, but it's effects depend upon the context within which it is used. Same with Mediator.

Again, look deeper into these suspected deaths and find out the real way this was claimed by the media. The 500 deaths didn't exist, it is a mathematical conclusion based on a small survey of deaths occuring years later after the drug was taken off the market, that MAY have been connected with residual damage to the heart.

This was concluded because a high percentage of these people had taken Mediator once in their life. But correlation is not cause- these people all happened to be constantly trying various methods of weight loss, and trying many different dangerous ways to do so- the accumulation of which likely caused heart damage in the long term.

Any molecule which has an effect upon the body can be either a medicine or a poison, depending upon usage- and you trust your doctor to be responsible in his/her ordinances.

The investigation is following every possible idea to condemn Servier and keeps running into problems making their case, despite what the radio likes to say. Now they have had to admit that it was only dangerous within the wrongful prescriptions for weight loss.... so they are now trying to find some evidence that Servier was pushing that usage of it onto doctors (through the lab reps). But that too, is coming up empty. My husband and his collegues not only gave honest testimony to the pressure they recieve and followed to convince doctors this was dangerous and should not be done,
but also, there is a private group which surveys doctors each time a visitor medicale (lab rep- meets with them. They call and ask the Dr. what the rep said, what their angle and advice was. This has been carried out for years and documented.

So at least my husband and his collegues are all covered by those documents, which recorded their efforts to make doctors NOT prescribe this medicine to the wrong patients for weight loss.

Nothing will or can be proven about this because it is a farce. But Servier already knows they will have to agree to pay a lot anyway, because clearing their name would mean "telling on their clients"- which generally, is bad for business in the long run.
edit on 26-8-2011 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 04:06 AM
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Why did it take Servier 13 years to recognise its dangers, after it was banned a first time in 1997, after the US authorities forbid it in 2000 ?

It reminds me of the (affaire du sang contaminé). It also took them about 10 years to forbid in france what was forbidden already elsewhere. For those that don't know about that, it was a US lab selling blood contaminated with AIDS. They had stopped it in the US, but appetite for profits was too strong. For 10 years they kept giving the tainted blood to french patients.

This has nothing to do with politics, it's greed in its most evil form.

Servier should be rotting in jail, and your husband should start looking for a more sane environment.

And another of those 16 rich that want to help : Bettencourt. That's a woman that's been in trials with her daughter for i don't know how long now, fighting for the family money.



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 04:48 AM
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It might be time now to re-focus on the subject, and provide a few numbers.

So, the french gov just announced its plan. They're looking for an extra 11 billion euros. Most of it will come from increases in taxes on tobacco, alcohol, sugary beverages. Amusement parks like Dysneyland will see their VAT increase from 5.5% to 19.6%.

What will be the contribution from the super rich ? : 200 million.
200 million out of 11 billion, and the gov tells us that the rich will participate to the ratio of 50 % ????

NOW? WHAT THE...
200 million is not half of 11 billion. No wonder we are in trouble when they are so bad at math.

So the gov is gonna take an extra 200 million from the rich's pockets...
And what good is it when the gov just reformed in 2011 the ISF (tax of solidarity on fortunes).
They just made them a gift of 2 billion, and now, they're asking for 200 million back, and that is an improvement ?

The gov always uses the same argument, they say that if you tax too much the rich, they will flee to another country.

But a recent study from the Crédit Suisse totally contradicts this approach.
France is the leader in europe regarding its number of millionaires in dollars.
CAC 40 CEOs are the best paid in europe.

Look up Thomas Piketty, he's director at the EHESS and professor at the Paris school of economics.
If you don't believe me when i say that all this is a joke, maybe you'll believe it from his mouth.



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 05:37 AM
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reply to post by Chrysalis
 


I agree on getting back on subject. I didn’t see the reason for bringing that up here in the first place. But I’d be happy to answer your arguments further in another thread dedicated to that topic. My husband works with cardiologists and sees too many people have their life saved by medicines to change his job. It is very meaningful to him.

Now what I think the Americans find striking in this is that ON TOP of the planned raise in taxes upon the rich that you refer to, they offered to pay MORE. Voluntarily ! If you know the American culture, this is bizarre and incomprehensible.

I do appreciate you refering to the misconceptions about France being full of poor people because no one can get rich and stay that way here (that is the common misconception in the US, along with it being a Socialist government).
Though to be fair, those numbers are refering to Europe, when the concern was how many people moved to the USA when they began to get extremely wealthy (not other parts of Europe).



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 05:50 AM
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I brought up Servier because he is one of those 16 asking to pay more taxes.
And I still think he should be rotting in jail instead. I understand your position with you husband working for him.
Yes, big pharma saves people for the most part.
But sometimes there are misconducts and these have to be punished.

I know you're going to say it's biased but one could find the same stuff on all sorts of papers :
Is Servier trying to put the blame on doctors ?


This article pretty much debunks what you been saying about your husband's work.
If someone needs a better translation than google, ask it here or u2u me, i'll help.

Now, back to another of these 16 rich people asking to pay more taxes. Bettencourt.
How can you explain these facts :
- she was under investigation for tax evasion.
- to avoid paying a big penalty, her accountant gave a case full of cash to the then minister of finances, which was the one that was to say how much the penalty would be.
- As a result, said minister was "resigned" and part of bettencourt's assets were brought back from switzerland and other tax havens.



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 07:35 AM
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reply to post by Chrysalis
 


That article supports exactly what I have been saying.
Those accusing Servier ended up having to concede that the cases in question were all cases in which Mediator was given to people who did NOT have Diabetes or High Triglycerides (hope that is the correct english translation) – what the medicine was for.

They complain that Servier is not then, pressing charges clearly against the doctors for their misconduct then. Which of course they will not do.

This article states that the next step they are trying is to paint Serviers reps as having counselled and pushed the doctors to prescribe this medicine for weight loss.

But as I said, I was there. I had to listen to my fuming furious husband rant and rave each night about how these doctors were being irresponsible and doing something dangerous and waving off his attempts to tell them that ! I got to hear when he came back from meetings and described who got a special bonus for having brought down the sales of Mediator (to numbers that were more in line with real number of people with diabetes and hypertriglycéridémie).

And like I said, there is enough evidence and records of what they were saying to doctors and doing to sink this attempt too.

Look, the blind attitude that anyone with money is automatically corrupt and evil, though common in Europe, is not always reliable. No more than the American attitude that anyone with money must be a good and responsible ! There is some of each in that population. It’s good to be mefient and keep and eye on them, but intelligent to recognize when you are just barking up the wrong tree.

But if you feel it is better for him to be in prison, paid for by the people, instead of paying more himself, I think that is more about personal feelings then being prgmatic and objective about the present situation......but you certainly have the right to your opinion and it is as valid as any other.

Personally, I like the way crises force people to put their personal desires behind them and tune in with others and the greater good. When our town flooded and most of the people were homeless, people who had been very selfish and petty and cruel suddenly threw their shirts off and aided their neighbors. It brought out the most humane parts of them. I wasn’t about to complain about that then and I won’t complain about it happening now during this crisis



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 07:45 AM
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Isn't france a third world country? I mean....didn't they loose like....13k of their population to a mild heat wave a few years back that first world counties only loose less than a hundred or so to?

So yeah, I can see how some rich, ignorant "heir" who doesn't understand the first thing about reality can make such statements. What I don't understand is how your average person who works for a living can describe to such utter nonsense.

Please, any of you that earn $150k and above....and live in a fish world country (I.e. Not france) please tell me how and why you agree with this nonsense.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by MainLineThis

Isn't france a third world country? I mean....didn't they loose like....13k of their population to a mild heat wave a few years back that first world counties only loose less than a hundred or so to?



France is a first world country. They have the 14th highest Human Development Index in the world and have a per capita income that is at a similar rank.

Rich people in Germany have also made similar statements about thinking they should be taxed more.


So yeah, I can see how some rich, ignorant "heir" who doesn't understand the first thing about reality can make such statements. What I don't understand is how your average person who works for a living can describe to such utter nonsense.

Please, any of you that earn $150k and above....and live in a fish world country (I.e. Not france) please tell me how and why you agree with this nonsense.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 


Oh the irony.
edit on 26/8/11 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)
edit on 26/8/11 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)
edit on 26/8/11 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by MainLineThis

Isn't france a third world country? I mean....didn't they loose like....13k of their population to a mild heat wave a few years back that first world counties only loose less than a hundred or so to?

So yeah, I can see how some rich, ignorant "heir" who doesn't understand the first thing about reality can make such statements. What I don't understand is how your average person who works for a living can describe to such utter nonsense.

Please, any of you that earn $150k and above....and live in a fish world country (I.e. Not france) please tell me how and why you agree with this nonsense.


That is outragious ignorance, and biting sarcasm is on the edge of my fingertips, but I shall try to refrain.
You have just made a fool of yourself in public.



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by Bluesma
The fact that the very rich in France expressed their willingness to pay more taxes in order to support and show solidarity says a lot about their culture. That is the interesting part to me. The values of a people.


Except apparently if you are a Gypsy.





posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by Bluesma
Being that the banks in France are being called upon to cover the butt of Greece, (which will eventually pull on the people themselves through bank fees) giving money to the banks to help them do this is considered a way to lighten how much they shall have to pull from the people to do this.


So the French is more gullible than I though? Much more than Amerikans.



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by C0bzz
France is a first world country. They have the 14th highest Human Development Index in the world and have a per capita income that is at a similar rank.


And apparently old folks in France can't afford air conditioners since they've given all of their income to the state.


And the number killed on that heat wave was 15K.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 03:14 AM
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reply to post by eldard
 


Solidarity amongst the french people does not include people who are not french.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 03:17 AM
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3. It is unconstitutional to tax one group over another as it violates the clause that all laws must be uniform throughout the united states.
reply to post by filosophia
 


We own France now? AWESOME!



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 03:25 AM
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Originally posted by eldard


And apparently old folks in France can't afford air conditioners since they've given all of their income to the state.




You are mistaken. The problem was that France does not usually have such weather, so people were not prepared. We have cool evenings, even in summer, and all our houses are made of stone, concrete, or cinderblock, so do not heat up much. Heating in a house was considered more important and nobody bothered with airconditioning because there didn't seem to be any need. Older people (the part of the population that experienced this mortality number) had never dealt with such heat before and had no idea how to.

After that event, everyone got airconditioning installed in their homes. My mother in law, and every elderly person I know included, with no problem buying it.

Here, from wikipedia-
"The high number of deaths can be explained by the conjunction of seemingly unrelated events. Most nights in France are cool, even in summer. As a consequence, houses (usually of stone, concrete or brick construction) do not warm too much during the daytime and radiate minimal heat at night, and air conditioning is usually unnecessary. During the heat wave, temperatures remained at record highs even at night, preventing the usual cooling cycle. Elderly persons living by themselves had never faced such extreme heat before and did not know how to react or were too mentally or physically impaired by the heat to make the necessary adaptations themselves. Elderly persons with family support or those residing in nursing homes were more likely to have others who could make the adjustments for them. This led to statistically improbable survival rates with the weakest group having fewer deaths than more physically fit persons; most of the heat victims came from the group of elderly persons not requiring constant medical care or living alone without immediate family."
en.wikipedia.org...


We got air conditioning too, two years ago, but haven't had to use it yet.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 05:32 AM
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Originally posted by Bluesma
reply to post by eldard
 


Solidarity amongst the french people does not include people who are not french.


Now you're just becoming a pathetic apologist.




posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 05:36 AM
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Yeah yeah yeah.

I am disgusted that the super rich in this world are sitting on their arses while millions of people starve to death.

So, get up and save them - don't look for glory, just do it.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 07:34 AM
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Originally posted by eldard

Originally posted by Bluesma
reply to post by eldard
 


Solidarity amongst the french people does not include people who are not french.


Now you're just becoming a pathetic apologist.



Solidarity is not wide open without any boundries or limits to the collective grouping it is made up of.
In most cases, being part fo a solidated grouping means that the individual (s) wishing to join must be willing to integrate and be part of the system the group has constructed together, or share the same values, goals, interests...

The gypsies do not respect the laws of France, refuse to pay any tax, demand full usage of all public utilities, roads, schools, land,, free electricity and water. They steal for a living, and travel through many countries demanding all of this, and often through armed force.

They do not agree to join the collective, so there is no reason the collective should serve them.
They do not wish to be french citizens, so they are not. They have not chosen to be part of that solidarity.

-and you are continuing to be a one liner troll with only insults to add to the conversation. But this is a free world. Whatever.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by catwhoknowsplusone
Yeah yeah yeah.

I am disgusted that the super rich in this world are sitting on their arses while millions of people starve to death.

So, get up and save them - don't look for glory, just do it.
You look super-rich to that group of gypsies eying you from that alley.




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