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Regardless of your opinions of 9/11 , you need to read this.

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posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by pteridine
 





First, the only missile strikes were the aircraft.


Nope. Cartoon planes don't do that in the real world.

Come on Professor. You know this.

The first strike was likely several JASSM missiles, giving all those eye witnesses something to talk about to all those FBI agents in the crowds who were talking about planes.


Originally posted by Yankee451
Four examples of fraud:




Source

The FBI sure seemed pretty intent on making sure folks were talking about planes:



Account of Chris Kagenaar - File No: 9110014
What happened was then the second plane hit the tower, and it was a loud noise, I mean, it
hit, and at first I was like this can’t be happening. It’s like lightning doesn’t strike twice….
As I’m dropping off the patient, the FBI agent comes up to me and he says, oh, man, I just
heard there’s a third plane coming in.



Account of Felton Jarjean - File No: 9110041
I would say right around that time while we were right under here, under the Westside
Highway and pedestrian bridge, I seen a second plane coming. I’m thinking isn’t that plane too
low? I’m like.. .then I noticed, I seen it turn. It turned and went right in the building. But we’re
behind, like this is the building, it went in, and you see the explosion in the front... ...
Everybody talking about -around that time- there's another plane coming. I mean, we didn’t
know because we didn’t have a TV and we didn’t have a radio. We was just going our way. We
heard it from the FBI agents or agents down there.



Account of Michael Wernick - File No: 9110080
We were there resting five, ten minutes. We heard reports that possibly more planes were
coming in our direction and that was from the FBI.



Account of Sidney Parris – File No: 9110347
After that, FBI agent came down the block. He identified some landing gear that was in front of
our rig, asked me to make sure no pedestrians came down the block to interfere with any type
of metals and debris that were there, because they were trying to identify to put the pieces
back together for the plane.



Account of James Curran - File No: 9110412
No, we were on the 16 floor when it was confirmed that another plane hit tower two. At that
point, someone that was supposedly Secret Service, which disappeared, we never knew
where he went, he said there was a third incoming flight.



Account of Warren Smith - File No: 9110223
I also received reports while I was walking up from an FBI agent that there were more planes
up in the air unaccounted for. So I passed this on to my guys that were near me.



Account of Terence Rivera - File No: 9110343
This account is especially peculiar…
There was a -- he wasn't a regular security guard. He had a weapon on him. I don't know if
he was FBI or Secret Service and he was trying to put the pants out on one individual that was
conscious. His pants were still smoldering. I took the can, fire extinguisher off the truck and
then sprayed down the pants on the person that was still conscious. At that time, I had asked
him where did this individual [had] come from. He told me when the plane had hit, a fire ball
had shot down the elevator shaft and had blown people out of the lobby
Sometime while we were doing that, that same individual that was -- when we first got there,
that was trying to put the pants out, he came over and he is saying to us that it's a terrorist
attack. You guys are too close. It's a terrorist attack.
Then I went -- that same individual, the security or -- he told me to go over to the command
post and let them know it's a terrorist attack. There are more planes in the air.


Source





posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 08:26 PM
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reply to post by DragonriderGal
 


And again, you show a lack of knowledge of the facts. Each and every one of the four airliners left plenty of wreckage at their respective crash sites.



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by pteridine

Originally posted by DragonriderGal
Hum.. windows blowing out preceding the fall of each floor wasn't obvious?? The many explosions heard by fire fighters and rescue personal wasn't obvious?? That the buildings landed as neatly and quickly in their own footprints as the Kingdome did after it was professionally demolished isn't obvious? And yah, the professionals can easily drop buildings like that at that rate of speed. It's their JOB.

IF these buildings were so fragile that a fire less than halfway down the building, with some of the support beams damaged or destroyed, could bring them all right straight down in freefall demolition time, how in the world did they stay standing in the first place? The first big wind storm coming thru or the first helicopter landing on the roof would have taken these suckers down, if so.

Please, don't insult my intelligence. Looks like they may have felt this thread needed a couple of pro debunkers.. so, by the way, thanks for stopping by and tell your bosses I said hi.


First, the only missile strikes were the aircraft. The explosives required would be a bit more than would just blow out windows. Read what I wrote; 150 milliseconds per floor. The explosions would have been loud and spaced so close together that they would have been nearly continuous.
The buildings were not fragile; they had survived aircraft impact and uncontrolled fires for some time. The damage, impact plus fire, weakened the building to the point that it finally collapsed. The core survived for seconds after the collapse, until the unbalanced loads caused it to collapse also.
We pro debunkers try not to insult anyone's intelligence because our bosses don't pay us our debunking fees if anyone feels offended.


Blow out the windows half a building away. Yah, that happens all the time. And really, haven't you ever watched those controlled demolitions??? They do it all the time. It is an amazing show when you aren't killing 3000 people with it. And with all the sounds the collapsing building made, those explosions could have been going off all the time once the fall started, and who would have noticed?? But even without sound, you can notice the windows blowing out a couple floors below the level of the collapse. Oh but I am sure it was just air, being pushed down by the heavy floors.. yah, that's it.

And if the load was unbalanced, and it should have been---the airplanes didn't hit straight down, but from the side, the buildings SHOULD have collapsed sideways.

There were other buildings around the world which burned for hours and hours.. all nite even, and they never collapsed. They burned until there wasn't anything left but the steel superstructure. And not one single one of them ever even tipped. Some collapsed a bit of the top level into the lower floors or dropped pieces of facade off the sides. But not a single collapse.

But well, maybe it is something in the NY water that causes buildings there to drop like they are being professionally demolished. That would make about as much sense as the horse pucky the "official" version wants us to believe.

And heck no.. paid debunkers get paid to make people toe the party line. Their goal is to discredit, disprove, undermine the information and failing that, try to make people doubt the poster's credibility and/or intelligence. Their job is get the people who are not cooperating and toeing the party line to stop or give up, or best of all, give in. And any tactic, especially personal attack if you think it will make other people think more poorly of the non-cooperator, is happily used from my observation, having been at the barrel end of these abusive techniques myself, many times.



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by DragonriderGal
 


And now, its up to you...to figure out how three buildings were wired for demolition over the course of MONTHS without anyone noticing. AND without them leaving ANY signs of demolition equipment.


It's documented that there were 'repair' crews in and out for months and they were there nite and day for the last two or so weeks before they blew the towers. And they wouldn't allow explosive sniffing dogs to be brought in either.

Oh, if this was an inside job, they'd have just shown up with their stuff, signed in (because those behind this were very much in charge of the place and gave them full access) and went up and started doing their jobs. If you act normal enough, nobody even gives you a second glance. And they knew when the demolition was going to happen, so they got it all wrapped up and took their stuff with them. Duh.

And proof of anything in that rubble would have been extremely difficult to obtain, even if they hadn't blocked the whole place off and rapidly removed any traces of the wreckage before any official investigation could be done. That right there was a crime itself because they were destroying evidence...

And, just as a frame of reference and something to think about, imagine what any of the investigators of any of the crime scene shows would do, (and those who's job it was to do the official investigation said the same thing) if they couldn't get into a murder scene because the locals were demolishing the place and destroying and removing evidence. They'd have a fit!



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by DragonriderGal
 


And again, you show a lack of knowledge of the facts. Each and every one of the four airliners left plenty of wreckage at their respective crash sites.


Where's the plane? (Shanksville, PA field)



Maybe I need new glasses, but again... where's the plane??



Hole in the wall of the Pentagon. Notice no signs of impact from the wings (which carry the jet engines) nor the tail fin, not even scuff marks (notice the "no parking" sign), yet the jet disappeared completely into the building. The 767's wingspan is 125 ft. and it's tail height is just over 44 ft.



At this point, I'm wondering if YOU don't need new glasses.. or maybe a readjustment in your belief systems, OR maybe just a new job, eh?
edit on 26-8-2011 by DragonriderGal because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by DragonriderGal

Blow out the windows half a building away. Yah, that happens all the time.

And if the load was unbalanced, and it should have been---the airplanes didn't hit straight down, but from the side, the buildings SHOULD have collapsed sideways.

There were other buildings around the world which burned for hours and hours.. all nite even, and they never collapsed. They burned until there wasn't anything left but the steel superstructure. And not one single one of them ever even tipped. Some collapsed a bit of the top level into the lower floors or dropped pieces of facade off the sides. But not a single collapse.

And heck no.. paid debunkers get paid to make people toe the party line. Their goal is to discredit, disprove, undermine the information and failing that, try to make people doubt the poster's credibility and/or intelligence. Their job is get the people who are not cooperating and toeing the party line to stop or give up, or best of all, give in.


Given the amount of explosives needed to clear 6-7 floors a second, windows would have been blown out in a wide radius and the sounds would have been obvious over the noise of collapse.

Why do you think the buildings should have collapsed sideways? I keep seeing this claim but no one who makes it can explain why the buildings should fall like a tree or do something other than what they did.

None of those buildings were hit by aircraft and were constructed like the WTC. Steel framed buildings have collapsed by fire alone; this has been referenced in many threads.

I see more personal attacks from you than those directed toward you. I don't try to make people doubt you, it is you who do that with your posts.



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by DragonriderGal
 


The reason that there is a small hole with no marks from the wings is that the photo you posted is the EXIT hole from one of the engines. You should really pay more attention.



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by DragonriderGal
 



Maybe I need new glasses, but again... where's the plane??


So are you that dense to think the plane after slamming through a building at 500mph would be just sitting there
like in a Looney Toon ?

Were you expecting Wiley Coyote perhaps..,..?

You saw the plane You are just too ignorant to understand what you saw.....

That piece of debris painted green is whats left of the plan. Much of the debris is still inside the building

Here is pieced of debris on lawn



More debris painted in American airlines livery



Lot of debris pictures here including ones of jet engines



The plane was violently fragmented by the impact. Many pieces were less than foot across, some of the
heavier parts survived.

Here is part of landing gear truck just beyond the hole




posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by DragonriderGal
 


The reason that there is a small hole with no marks from the wings is that the photo you posted is the EXIT hole from one of the engines. You should really pay more attention.

No it isn't. You really should pay more attention. They don't have parking inside the rings, eh?



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by DragonriderGal
 



Maybe I need new glasses, but again... where's the plane??


So are you that dense to think the plane after slamming through a building at 500mph would be just sitting there
like in a Looney Toon ?

Were you expecting Wiley Coyote perhaps..,..?

You saw the plane You are just too ignorant to understand what you saw.....

That piece of debris painted green is whats left of the plan. Much of the debris is still inside the building

Here is pieced of debris on lawn



More debris painted in American airlines livery



Lot of debris pictures here including ones of jet engines



The plane was violently fragmented by the impact. Many pieces were less than foot across, some of the
heavier parts survived.

Here is part of landing gear truck just beyond the hole



All of those things are debatable as to being part of a large jet liner. There isn't even consensus as to what the flywheel came from. The american airlines logo is too small to have come from a commercial version of the American jet and it is the wrong colors. And for pity sake, we're talking about what.. 90 tons of material??? From the few pieces I've seen, I'd add that all up to about hum.. 1000 lbs. Even shredded to tiny little bits, there should have still been 90 tons of crap floating/lying/sitting around. And that shrimpy landing gear.. off a 767... really??? That wasn't even big enough to come off a C-130. I'm going with it probably came off the Cruise missle that went in that 16' hole instead. Or maybe a fighter jet of some sort. But a big old airliner... Yah, right.

Hum after looking at your 'landing gear' photo which I assumed was the same one I'd seen earlier, I realize this photo doesn't even show any landing gear. Those are the wire cable holders that were stacked outside. Burnt a bit, but you can clearly see the wire on them. *rolls eyes* Pluueeeaase!

But here is some food for thought:




LOOK CLOSELY, ...This is the picture the administration does not want you to see!
Look at the red image, it is scaled to size, (ACTUALLY EVEN SMALLER) and shows where the impact patterns SHOULD be, yet, there is no damage except a single hole that goes through 3 sections of the pentagon. This wall collapsed or was brought down by explosives minutes after this picture, which clearly shows inconsistent damage for a Boeing 757.



Given that the outer wall of the Pentagon had not yet collapsed and the only hole is approximately 16 ft. in diameter, how does a plane over 44 feet tall and 125 ft. wide fit into that hole as shown in the photographic evidence from the Pentagon? Furthermore, can physics explain why there is no damage to the Pentagon's upper floors where the tail section would have hit? Close-ups of this section are extremely revealing.


And just to wonder the obvious.. if the tail didn't go inside, where is it??? Where are the wings that should have been sheared off by the untouched wall? *shrug* Guess it was some sort of MAGIC! Wow.. even better than denial.

edit on 27-8-2011 by DragonriderGal because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by DragonriderGal

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by DragonriderGal
 


The reason that there is a small hole with no marks from the wings is that the photo you posted is the EXIT hole from one of the engines. You should really pay more attention.

No it isn't. You really should pay more attention. They don't have parking inside the rings, eh?


They don't have parking inside the rings, hence the "No Parking" sign, eh? It is an exit hole. search on "pentagon c-ring exit hole" and you will see the photo. Attention to detail, skeeter wings.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 12:47 AM
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"The president ought to be ashamed"


By Eric Boehlert


Nov 21, 2003 | During his six years as a United States senator from the conservative state of Georgia, Max Cleland was known as a moderate Democrat. He drew the wrath of liberals in 2001 when he broke ranks with Democrats and voted for President Bush's tax cuts, and last year he backed the resolution authorizing Bush to wage war with Iraq (though on that vote, at least, he was joined by some liberals).

Today, though, Cleland has emerged as one of the president's harshest critics, especially about the war he voted to authorize. Today, he says, it's a move he deeply regrets, as he scans the headlines from Baghdad. "I feel like I have been duped, I don't mind telling you," Cleland admits. "Everybody in the administration was selling this used car. The problem is all the wheels have fallen off the car and we've got a lemon."

Cleland, perhaps known for being a triple amputee Vietnam vet, lost his Senate seat last November in a race that has gone down in history as typifying the GOP's take-no-prisoners approach to politics. The disabled veteran was smeared as soft on terror because he didn't back Bush's version of homeland security legislation.

Now, outspoken and blunt, he's furious about the White House's handling of the war with Iraq, which he calls a disastrous "war of choice." And he mocks the administration's claims that Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden were allies. "They had a plan to go to war [with Iraq], and when 9/11 happened that's what they did; they went to war."

Meanwhile, as one of 10 commissioners serving on the independent panel created by Congress to investigate the 9/11 attacks, Cleland bemoans the administration's "Nixonian" love of secrecy and its attempt to "slow walk" the commission into irrelevancy.

At the center of the secrecy debate are sensitive presidential daily briefings, or PDBs, that the commission wants to examine as part of its inquiry. Particularly important is the crucial Aug. 6, 2001 PDB, which warned of Osama bin Laden's desire to hijack commercial planes in the United States. For months the White House resisted, and the commission hinted it might subpoena the document. A deal was finally cut last week, which Cleland opposed, allowing a handpicked subset of commissioners to be briefed on the PDBs.

"We shouldn't be making deals," Cleland complains. "If somebody wants to deal, we issue subpoenas. That's the deal."

Straight from a former member of the Commission Max Cleland called out Cheney's Nixoian love of secrecy it was not long after these statements he resigned and then W. appointed him to the board of directors of the Import Export bank.Did the Senator rattle enough cages that the powers behind the throne decided to put him in a position where they could keep an eye on him and keep outta the way?




Source

edit on 013131p://0626 by mike dangerously because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 12:53 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by pteridine

Given the amount of explosives needed to clear 6-7 floors a second, windows would have been blown out in a wide radius and the sounds would have been obvious over the noise of collapse.

Why do you think the buildings should have collapsed sideways? I keep seeing this claim but no one who makes it can explain why the buildings should fall like a tree or do something other than what they did.

None of those buildings were hit by aircraft and were constructed like the WTC. Steel framed buildings have collapsed by fire alone; this has been referenced in many threads.

I see more personal attacks from you than those directed toward you. I don't try to make people doubt you, it is you who do that with your posts.


Really?? You can't figure out why something should fall in the direction it was pushed??? Wow. How many times have YOU tripped and then fell straight down in a vertical heap instead of continuing forward in the direction you were heading when you tripped??

IF indeed the airplanes were such a contributing factor to the fall of these buildings as you party liners like to insist, then there is NO way to say that said airplanes, ramming thru the sides of the buildings at high speed, would not also contribute significantly to the direction they fall! That is just simple logic.. oh.. sorry. Didn't mean to make your head hurt.

And actually no. Steel framed buildings haven't collapsed by fire alone. Steel and concrete buildings have sort of collapsed because of the concrete's tiny propensity to have a bit of moisture trapped in them. There actually haven't be ANY steel framed buildings collapse except for during reallllly violent earthquakes and planned demolitions, and the earthquakes don't make the buildings fall straight down. Only planned demolitions do. Like I said, must be the water in NY that made these three buildings behave in such an unbelievable way. Or magic. Because surely, oh surely the PTB would NEVER lie or try to manipulate us for their own profit-driven money-grubbing, power-grabbing reasons.

And once the towers started coming down, I doubt anyone was really paying attention to noise. I'm sure they were all running for their lives. Plus Thermite explosions work not only with blast but with corrosion too, so it wouldn't be as noisy. Or the other likely possibility would be using thermobaric charges which requires a LOT less material than the more traditional explosives, and if used with hydrogen don't have visible blasts in daylight. All you'll see is dust clouds and water vapor.

And oh... yah, people doubt my posts. Perhaps you ought to clarify that the party liners 'doubt' my posts and sorry but they do plenty of personal attacking all on their own. My take is that it is mostly because they can't get me to agree with them.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 01:02 AM
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Originally posted by pheonixashes22
ITS OFFICIAL.

We staged a false flag terror strike so we could put an army in the middle east. Why?

To protect Israel.

Thats not a good thing, for you less well read folk out there.

Definitely not a good thing, I agree.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 01:55 AM
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Originally posted by pteridine

Originally posted by DragonriderGal

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by DragonriderGal
 


The reason that there is a small hole with no marks from the wings is that the photo you posted is the EXIT hole from one of the engines. You should really pay more attention.

No it isn't. You really should pay more attention. They don't have parking inside the rings, eh?


They don't have parking inside the rings, hence the "No Parking" sign, eh? It is an exit hole. search on "pentagon c-ring exit hole" and you will see the photo. Attention to detail, skeeter wings.



There are multiple versions of that picture, and yes after realizing they'd added 'punch out' in spray paint, I can see now that it is that same back wall. But back a couple posts, I put in some pictures of the outside.. with it's 16' hole from before the front of the building collapsed. No wing strikes there and still no tail wreckage. Boy, it must be some of that magic water like they've got up in NY, where buildings fall straight into their foot print even though they've been struck with a huge side force, that makes airplanes just vaporize and leave no significant amount of wreckage if they run into buildings... Magic. yah, that's it.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 01:58 AM
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reply to post by vipertech0596
 





Actually I work for the US Air Force.



edit on 27-8-2011 by Yankee451 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 02:06 AM
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reply to post by DragonriderGal
 


Beware of circular arguments...pteridine's goal. He's not all that though.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 27-8-2011 by Yankee451 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 03:19 AM
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Originally posted by Yankee451
reply to post by DragonriderGal
 


Beware of circular arguments...pteridine's goal. He's not all that though.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 27-8-2011 by Yankee451 because: (no reason given)


Thanks, I'll keep my eye out for that.
You have to know he has some kind of control issues though, from that rigid faced avatar of his.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 08:29 AM
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reply to post by Yankee451
 


Curious, other than yet another aimless post...what was your point? Video games were pretty much still Atari 2600 when I started my career.



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