Moderate Quakes Striking Odd Places in USA...Coincidence Or Not? Let's Find Out.

Originally posted by westcoast
reply to post by lcbjr1979

 

because the odds are VERY high I will just end up looking like an idiot. So here is to hoping I look like an idiot!

I think that our brains and bodies are capable of processing so much information from the things which happen around us...earth vibrations, weather events, electrical changes, event patterns, sound vibrations, etc. etc....and they all result in distilled information if only we would quiet ourselves long enough to feel the results.

Kind of like a computer...data in...answer out.

I think that lots of people can process information like this. But the constant bombardment of media, and all of our devices which interfere with natural frequencies, keep people from noticing the correlation between their instincts and actual events.

Westcoast, you may be "off" in your feelings (data processing) for a little while, but I think it is good that you are paying attention and trying to learn how to correctly interpret the correlations between what your body/mind are taking in and processing versus the distilled information your body/mind are trying to get you to listen to.

I am glad that you are brave enough to put yourself out here like this with us.

reply to post by JustMike


Thanks for that post. I live up in northern MN, in the Red River Valley and I am a paramedic. We had to do some continuing education and the topic was earthquakes. We were of the mind set of yeah right not in MN, now I am begining to wonder if anyone anywhere is safe from earthquakes. I can assure if we got hit with a 7 + quake the devestation would be catastrophic.

reply to post by lcbjr1979

No problem. Glad to be of some use.

Quakes of any appreciable size are very rare in your state. You get little ones from time to time though. All the same it's a good thing that you have training related to them, because in the event of a major event elsewhere I'd expect emergency personnel from unaffected areas might be called in to assist. And you're not exactly light years away from the Wabash Valley Seismic Zone, which some experts believe could have a major quake at some stage in the future.

Meantime, just for information, here's the Minnesota Earthquake Information page on USGS.

Best regards,

Mike

reply to post by JustMike


That is true, sometimes we get asked to send help to other parts of the country. We had an ambulance and 2 paramedics down south during Katrina to help transport patients from hospitals and nursing homes into Texas. I guess if a disaster were to happen we could potentially get asked to send help. I just hope communications between agencies will have improved cause during Katrina that was a disaster all by itself.


On a side note I would like to hear your thoughts on the Ramampo fault in NY. Thats where my parents live, they are about 10 miles away from Indian Point. I fear if that fault goes the results will be similar to that of what happened in Japan.

reply to post by lcbjr1979

I have to be perfectly honest with you and say that my knowledge of the Ramapo fault system is pretty limited; my main areas of interest in the US have been CA and PNW seismic zones and also the New Madrid and Wabash Valley Seismic Zones.

I do know, though, that even among professional seismologists there are two opposing schools of thought about the Ramapo fault. One says that it could be capable of producing a large quake (and the Indian Point plant was only designed to withstand up to a mag 6.1, apparently). The other faction of scientists says that the Ramapo fault is basically "dead" and while there are small quakes in the region from time to time, it won't produce anything major.

Well, if I were making decisions I'd rather go for the pessimistic view and have a plant that could withstand a quake a lot bigger than a mag 6.1. But as for the Indian Point plant, I just don't know enough if the rather old PWRs they operate are much better or safer than the BWRs they had at Fukushima Dai-ichi (before they melted down and/or blew up). I would hope that at least they have learned something from the disaster in Japan and have reassessed the potential hazards.

Put it this way: if there is ever a big quake anywhere near the Indian Point plant, it would probably be wise for people in the region to get themselves some ways distant if at all possible, at least until it's sure that the plant is safe and either undamaged or in confirmed cold shutdown.

Not a very satisfactory answer, I know. Again, to be honest, we have members who are far more knowledgeable on this than I'll probably ever be. You could try posing the question on the quake watch thread where most of our quake geeks tend to hang out. Someone there is bound to have more data on the Ramapo fault. (It's late here so I'll be offline soon but I expect a member could help you out. Just tel them I suggested you ask. )

Best regards,
Mike

reply to post by JustMike


I am of the school of thought that " I dont know" is a very acceptable answer. I would much rather see that than you try and make something up. Thanks again for the reply thought I really appreciate it.

Thanks to all for the great dialouge. JustMike, you always bring a lot to the table. The info is oustanding and as always, appreciated.

To fall back on my research/outside the box thoughts based on historical data/etc, I would like to say that I am NOT convinced the NMZ isn't a convergence zone. There are some theories out there on this, so it is not my own. How crazy would it be to apply my West Coast theory? That is; The Cascade Subduction zone extends through California and the san andreas 'crack' is a result of the uplift. SO....what if the NMZ is actually a subduction and this line of quakes along the 37th are actually on a 'crack' resulting from the uplift??? Think about that one. Apply it to what we have been seeing both in California and in the midwest. You'll understand my concern then for a chain reaction.

Back to my dreams/etc. I had another odd dream last night, very likely due to all this saturation but here it is:

I was leading some sort of tour for a group of people. We were walking across a large map of the states. (walking east) The only part I really remember clearly is when we were about halfway through Arkansas. I was holding my phone and as quakes happened it was synced with this map on the floor so that they would light up as red circles. I paused as several large circles lit up on the western edge/border of Arkansas and said "Oh, we just missed several big ones" or something to that affect.

Strange....just a strange dream, but since I've decided to share all of this, i need to include it.

I'm having a hard time reading/keeping up with everything. I am finding things to be happening similar again to as it did with Japan. I am getting a bit overwhelmed.....I'll try not to. I want to stay engaged. I'll take a break this afternoon though...I have more things to do with my family and I need to go for a walk and spend some quiet time with nature. There was absolutely incredible double ice-pillar this morning. It started out as a sun dog, then a double sundog and those turned into double pillars. I was on my way to church when it started. By the time we got there they were the pillars. I tried to get pictures with my cell phone. It killed me!!! I was trying to point them out to people at church but I don't think they got my enthusiasm. I finally had to tell myself that God just meant for me to enjoy it this time and not be the photographer...but yes, it was painful. My husband thought it was rather funny.

Take care you guys

West Coast, I sure hope your thoughts/feeling about a BIG(ger) quake in OK are wrong! I somehow managed to sleep through the 2:00 a.m. one on Saturday, but almost cr***ed myself when the 5.6 one hit just before 11:00 p.m.!
I am in the area that you sense will be hit with a 7+....I've predicted for a while now to my significant other, that my gut says we have a "target" on our backs and to expect just about anything to happen.. Last year's Oct. 13th 4.3 EQ was nothing like Saturday night, which was quite intense. Living in a 2-story brick, it felt like the foundation was heaving and sliding and I almost thought we'd have walls coming down if it lasted any longer than it did. So far as we can tell, no damage to this house, but we have a single story that has a large crack in an outside wall (brick) just a few miles away. Also a large gap from where an aluminum window pulled away from the masonry.

Feel free to include me in any U2U's you have regarding any more gut feelings. I will be following this thread closely now, like I did Robin's AK earthquake swarm. Much appreciation for all you do!

reply to post by westcoast


Don't discount your dreams. I'm not saying they are prophetic but it may be your brain's way of subconsciously processing and manifesting all the information and sensations you are taking in. My daughter woke up after a night of nonstop quake dreams and told me about them. Mine is not a household in which the tv or radio are running very often. So I didn't know about the Oklahoma quakes until well after they had happened and then I remembered my daughter's dreams timed well as a good precursor. Also I have been having the odd vertigo I have come to associate with quakes. I've just started noticing my husband seems to get weird headaches when I get my vertigo. This whole idea of our bodies warning of quakes is kind of new and strange to us but I'm starting to pay it some serious attention. I think my daughter might have had her own sensations that her subconscious picked up on as signs of a quake and communicated this in a way her conscious mind could be made aware, too.

If it were just myself having the vertigo I'd be extremely doubtful of any connection to quakes. But too many other people are reporting similar issues so I am open to the idea there is indeed a connection and that many people can sense the building stress and instability in the earth's crust. I wonder if the piezo electricity I read about plays into any of this.

We just got a good sized jolt about 5-min. ago! We're also getting a t-storm, and what sounded like distant thunder just moments before my house shook violently for about 5 seconds. This is getting very scary, especially since a large portion of the state is also under a tornado watch until 4:00 a.m.!

reply to post by Toots


Sorry I haven't posted before now...been a busy day. Honestly, I was hoping also to get through today without a need to post here. Thank you for your input!

You are correct about the jolt. So far, USGS has it listed as a 4.7:

Magnitude 4.7
Date-Time Tuesday, November 08, 2011 at 02:46:57 UTC
Monday, November 07, 2011 at 08:46:57 PM at epicenter
Time of Earthquake in other Time Zones

Location 35.541°N, 96.754°W
Depth 5 km (3.1 miles)
Region OKLAHOMA
Distances 28 km (17 miles) NNE of Shawnee, Oklahoma
69 km (42 miles) SSE of Stillwater, Oklahoma
70 km (43 miles) E of OKLAHOMA CITY, Oklahoma
71 km (44 miles) ESE of Guthrie, Oklahoma

Location Uncertainty horizontal +/- 7.2 km (4.5 miles); depth +/- 3 km (1.9 miles)
Parameters NST=129, Nph=141, Dmin=25.6 km, Rmss=1.32 sec, Gp= 40°,
M-type=body wave magnitude (Mb), Version=9


Source Magnitude: USGS NEIC (WDCS-D)
Location: USGS NEIC (WDCS-D)

Event ID usb0006lpf

source


However, looking at the nearest seismo:

SEISMO

....it sure looks bigger. I would say on the 5.0 to 5.2 range.


Anyways....with all the threads poping up on this now, rather than try and keep up with them I am just going to continue posting here since I still think it relevant. Heck, I began talking about it over two months ago.

Are you feeling the other quakes since? There have been a few more.

Take care, I am concerned that this is the build-up

reply to post by westcoast


Hey WC!

I've been trying to convince myself that your "7.4" was really just transposed to the "4.7's". But I'm afraid that you are right and something bigger is building. I only pray that it waits a little while longer, and more people get prepared.

Anyway... thank you for sharing all of your thoughts and feelings. Going out on a limb or not, those of us who know you and follow you, know it wasn't easy for you to share. As for your reputation... if anything it should grow. You are by far, one of the most "trusted" ones when it comes to quakes and concerns.

Thanks for the update WestCoast. My life has been pretty hectic for a few weeks too, so I'm not online as much as I'd like to be. So far, I felt the BIG hit late Saturday night and 2 since then. Strangely, my balance had been a bit off for 2 days prior to Saturday's quakes. I was not dizzy and I'm not clutzy, so for me this was odd....but may be in line with what others were reporting on the AR thread for a long time. That jolt last night had me shaking quite a while, since Saturday's deep rolling 5.7 was terrifying....something I dread having to experience again.

I've alerted several of my friends to what you're feeling, that these quakes are a precursor to something yet to come. Very disconcerting for all!

reply to post by Toots


Thanks for checking in! Good to know you have spoken with others. If nothing else, hopefully they will be better prepared for any possible future event. We should all be. For ANY natural or man-made disaster.

The date is now 11-8-11. If the numbers I saw ( 11 7 ) where in fact suposed to be 11-7-11 than that's a bit of a relief. But this is one of the main reasons I normally wouldn't post about these impressions. It is very difficult to interpret what it means. There was no bracketing or dashes, dots, etc. It could be a day, time, measurement, road, etc. I simply do not know. I know it has something to do with the quakes. I think often these kinds of things sometimes only make sense after the fact when you can apply it to what has already happened. But then you run into: Is it real, or are we just looking too hard? For me, it would have to be pretty darn specific because believe it or not, I am a skeptic.

Things have really settled down since the last 4.7 that happened last night:

I don't know if that's good or bad. As JustMike was saying on another thread; we are in new territory. This is a historical quake/swarm for Oklahoma as far as recorded quake activity goes. We really don't know what to expect. Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think that the 'scientists' have agreed on where they originating? Perhaps an ancient fault....an extension of a known one....or a new one altogether? Whatever the case, as I have said (I think here?) they are in a direct line with the quakes in Arkansas. Coincidence? Maybe.

SO. It's a wait-and-see phase. Hopefully things will continue to slowly decline. My concern of course is that this lull is simply another build-up. Since we don't have much to compare to, or know what kind of system is creating this, it is hard to say what may happen next.

ETA: (at UtahRosebud) Didn't see your post! Thank you my friend.

Alright... WC, TA, Robin, Puterman, JustMike, and the rest of you experts... thoughts on THIS???

From December of 2005 in Oklahoma:

KINGFISHER -- Mysterious unrefined natural gas leaks erupting in rural Kingfisher County in recent days continue to have officials puzzled as to their cause.

"We originally thought a pipeline had exploded," said Matt Skinner, Oklahoma Corporation Commission public information manager. "We had the pressure to zero pressure, and the leaks seemed to get bigger. So that's not it."

And then...

"We've ruled out the probables, and now we're into the unprobables," he said. "We've never seen one like this before, one that covers such a large area. It's another animal."

Skinner said the leak was unusual because of its size and that it was "moving with no explanation."

Officials said the U.S. Geologic Survey reported no seismic activity had been reported in the area.

"They said the area had been dead for some time," Skinner said.

Next they discuss how it's in a "creek". A creek, or perhaps an old fault line? Or something else?

Kingfisher Fire Chief Jack Crawford said the leaks, which cover a stretch of 12 to 13 miles between Kingfisher and Okarche "had not progressed toward Kingfisher" since Sunday afternoon.

"The bulk of the action is in the creek -- in terms of the visual," Skinner said. "It's one long continuous leak."

Skinner said the leaks have been in areas close to the creek between the cities.

"They seem to be staying near the creek," he said. "It runs over the length."

There is actually a lot more in the article, but those are a couple of the highlights.

Enid News - Mysterious Kingfisher area gas geysers leave officials puzzled

Ok fine. Now lets blame it on drilling 12 miles away!

An investigation of natural gas geysers along a creek in rural Kingfisher and Canadian counties indicates a well miles away may be to blame for the releases of explosive vapors, a state regulatory spokesman said Tuesday.

“The data and the evidence at this point, as unlikely as it appears, points to a Chesapeake (Energy Corp.) drilling operation,” said Matt Skinner, a spokesman for Oklahoma Corporation Commission, which regulates oil drilling. “If this theory is correct, this would be something geologists would be writing about.”

Gas has been shooting to the surface along a five-mile section of Winter Camp Creek, and some of the geysers are within about a mile of the town of Kingfisher.

A natural gas drilling rig operated by Chesapeake 12 miles west of Okarche experienced an unusually large flow of gas last week, according to a press release issued by Chesapeake Tuesday. Investigators are trying to determine if gas from the well may have moved laterally to the creek area.

Oh and this....

Officials had the gas from the geysers tested and found it contained about 93 percent methane, Kingfisher Fire Chief John Crawford said. The gas also contained about 3.6 percent ethane, 1 percent propane and other mixed gases.

Enid News - Corporation-Commission thinks drilling might be cause geysers

Ok, now where does Methane come from (the natural stuff)?

Geologic. One of the dominant sources of geologic methane is mud volcanoes. These structures can be up to 10 kilometers in diameter, though most are much smaller, and often form on tectonic plate boundaries or near fossil fuel deposits. Over 1,000 such structures have been located on land or in shallow water. Mud volcanoes release methane gas from within the Earth, as well as smaller amounts of carbon dioxide, nitrogen and helium. Other structures which emit methane that would qualify as geologic sources include gryphons, steam vents and bubbling pools.

Source - EPA.gov

Mud volcanoes:

Mud volcanoes are often associated with petroleum deposits and tectonic subduction zones and orogenic belts; hydrocarbon gases are often erupted. They are also often associated with lava volcanoes; in the case of such close proximity, mud volcanoes emit incombustible gases including helium, whereas lone mud volcanoes are more likely to emit methane.

Source - Wikipedia

Uh WC, that definitely ties into your "wonderment" over a possible subduction zone out there.

Lastly, I must include this. Indonesia Mud Volcano Was Man-made ....(drilling)

With all of that, who really knows. Whether the quakes in Oklahoma are created by man, or mother nature, the bottom line is this is not good. We cannot undo what has been done. Just take care!

reply to post by UtahRosebud


Is it just me, or is that article from 2005?

ETA: I see you know that already.

Ok, well subduction zone? In Oklahoma? Probably not. Fossil fuel deposits, much more likely. Is there a late update on this?

Ok, this is actually my first post and have always been interested in geology and quakes. I have some thoughts on the Colorado quakes, and surrounding the areas including Oklahoma and Virginia. Colorado is not free from seismic activity and sits above the Rio Grande Rift towards the bottom of the state, and the state is split by the North American Craton (The Great Divide which is beautiful) and the deformed part of the Craton. There are several other faults within the state also.
Map of the Craton
en.wikipedia.org...:North_america_craton_nps.gif
Map of the Rift
128.138.136.5...

One of my thoughts has to do with the breaking apart or moving of the Cranton. Oklahoma does sit in the "stable" portion of the Craton, but if enough force is being exerted on the area then earthquakes could happen in my opinion. I should also note here that the Virginia quake epicenter is fairly close to the deformed portion of the Craton. This theory could also lead to talks involving earth expansion with the rift considering that the Trinidad, CO. earthquake was thought to be caused by the San De Cristo fault which is part of the Rio Grande Rift system.

My other thought involves the waking up of Colorado. By waking up, I am referring to volcanic activity. Colorado is home to the La Garita Caldera . This caldera is responsible for one of the largest eruptions which caused to formation of the Fish Ridge Tuft. It is extinct but who's to say that underground movement would not cause the area to awaken. A long shot, but do we really know?
Another volcano in the area is the dormant Dotsero volcano which last erupted about 4,000 years ago
www.postindependent.com....
It is a possible threat and geologists say it will probably not go off in our lifetime, however, if plates start moving who knows what can happen. It is also interesting that if you were to look at a map, the caldera and Dotsero volcano are almost in a straight line.

I am in the Colorado Springs area and was up at the time of the quake, but I didn't feel it . These are just some thoughts, obviously nothing concrete. I would like to hear what others have to say about these theories.

reply to post by grungegirl


Ummmm.....okay. So I think that this quake qualifies for 'moderate' and 'odd' and it might even fit into your theory, grungegirl.

Note the depth.

Magnitude 3.7
Date-Time Monday, November 14, 2011 at 06:51:39 UTC
Sunday, November 13, 2011 at 11:51:39 PM at epicenter

Location 43.050°N, 103.502°W
Depth 5 km (3.1 miles)
Region SOUTH DAKOTA
Distances 26 km (16 miles) SW (236°) from Oelrichs, SD
36 km (22 miles) NW (326°) from Whitney, NE
38 km (24 miles) SE (136°) from Edgemont, SD
306 km (190 miles) NNE (25°) from Fort Collins, CO
389 km (242 miles) NNE (18°) from Denver, CO

Location Uncertainty horizontal +/- 10.1 km (6.3 miles); depth +/- 3.1 km (1.9 miles)
Parameters NST= 79, Nph= 97, Dmin=126.9 km, Rmss=0.87 sec, Gp= 47°,
M-type="Nuttli" surface wave magnitude (mbLg), Version=5
Source Magnitude: USGS NEIC (WDCS-D)
Location: USGS NEIC (WDCS-D)

Event ID usc0006rmy

reply to post by westcoast


not a very seismic area either...

neic.usgs.gov...

reply to post by berkeleygal


Yup....but that little marker to the north that says "hot springs" speaks volumes.