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Challenge to Atheists!

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posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by Mister_Bit
 


You wrote:

["I do understand the point you make about god being "outside" the universe, it's an idea I've not really thought about but it's an interesting angle."]

Which properly speaking is more a subject for rational metaphysics than for theism. Probably for 'tactical' reasons many missionary theists try to stay as far away from standard science/logic as they can, and at best (or worst.... as you take it), present their own cottage-industry science/logic, under false colours.




posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by Adurna
reply to post by Backslider
 


Ok first did you even read my full post? Second he also sent down Holy Books as proof.



Are you serious? He sent down hoyl books as proof?

where is your proof of this? Please do show me the proof of this?

there wasn't one shread of evidence in the OP ...



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 03:29 PM
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The proof is spirituality. I am not muslim I am Christian, but I have witnessed the incredible power of prayer first hand. I respect all believers and beliefs but our belief in God must be purely spiritually based. When you follow the guidelines correctly you get an incredible feeling of happiness whether you are muslim, Christian, Jew...
And yes the main parts of our religions are fundamentally the same (Prayer, study, love, respect and so on).
I am almost certain if there was no western interference Muslims, Christians, Jews and even atheists would live together in a happy society. It is happening in some places. When you blame religion for evils in the world you need to look at the causes - 99 times out 100 it has something to do with the shadow governments of the west.

All that being said I still find it unbelievable that people do not believe in some kind of higher power. Why do people believe so much in ET's? Simple, because they watch too many hollywood movies. And how many hollywood movies promote God and religion in a good way? Next to none. So the ones who always claim religious people are brainwashed are the ones who are actually being brainwashed. That is so funny.
Pride comes before a fall ladies gentlemen? Tell me please why that happens if it isn't God?



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by Dezero
The proof is spirituality. I am not muslim I am Christian, but I have witnessed the incredible power of prayer first hand. I respect all believers and beliefs but our belief in God must be purely spiritually based. When you follow the guidelines correctly you get an incredible feeling of happiness whether you are muslim, Christian, Jew...
And yes the main parts of our religions are fundamentally the same (Prayer, study, love, respect and so on).
I am almost certain if there was no western interference Muslims, Christians, Jews and even atheists would live together in a happy society. It is happening in some places. When you blame religion for evils in the world you need to look at the causes - 99 times out 100 it has something to do with the shadow governments of the west.

All that being said I still find it unbelievable that people do not believe in some kind of higher power. Why do people believe so much in ET's? Simple, because they watch too many hollywood movies. And how many hollywood movies promote God and religion in a good way? Next to none. So the ones who always claim religious people are brainwashed are the ones who are actually being brainwashed. That is so funny.
Pride comes before a fall ladies gentlemen? Tell me please why that happens if it isn't God?
Personally for my part I respect your belief, it's all groovy but it all does come down to faith in the end and no one can claim they have proof.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by Adurna

Many people say that there could have been a universe before this one and there could of been but you must have an absolute at the beginning that did not have a beginning otherwise you are waiting for the previous one to be created from nothing therefore your waiting for nothing to set something in motion. Many atheists ask me why doesn't God show himself. Well first if he creates everything he is must transcend everything. If he creates time and space then he does not exist within time and space which is where we all reside. That is my fundamental belief in God.



Hi Adurna,

To prove this you will need to explain the scientific methods you used to come to this conclusion, i.e "systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses"

Otherwise it's all just your own beliefs/opinion which count for nothing.

On your religious beliefs -

Correct me if im wrong, but Islam rejects all other forms of religion anyway, so it's a no brainer that you think Islam is the best religion and God wanted us all to be muslims. It's what you have been taught from an early age.

I agree that if there was a God then i doubt he would want more than one religion as that only causes bigotry, conflict etc.. I just don't see it being Islam due to the treatment of woman and it's hostility to others with different backgrounds etc...



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by Adurna
Many people say that there could have been a universe before this one and there could of been but you must have an absolute at the beginning that did not have a beginning otherwise you are waiting for the previous one to be created from nothing therefore your waiting for nothing to set something in motion.


Why must there have been an absolute?. Why cant there have just always been something? infinite, no beginning, no end.

Also if God created everything, who created God?



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by Dezero
 


You wrote:

["I respect all believers and beliefs but our belief in God must be purely spiritually based. When you follow the guidelines correctly you get an incredible feeling of happiness whether you are muslim, Christian, Jew..."]

A respect I hope you will also achieve when manifesting such attitudes socially. There will ofcourse always be the 'academically' dissenting approaches, which usually are more civilized though.

Though you could arrive to a similar 'tolerance' concerning theism - atheism. You do seem rather biased there.

Quote: [" I am almost certain if there was no western interference Muslims, Christians, Jews and even atheists would live together in a happy society."]

You don't have to be ALMOST certain. It actually happened in the (I believe) 13-14th century in southern France, where many religions and non-religions met and created a highly developed culture.

Quote: ["When you blame religion for evils in the world you need to look at the causes - 99 times out 100 it has something to do with the shadow governments of the west."]

That's to black/white. There is still much religious interference with secular society, and besides we DO have the historical evidence of what happens in theocratic models. Such medieval attitudes still exist amongst religionists.

Quote: ["All that being said I still find it unbelievable that people do not believe in some kind of higher power."]

Different mindsets, that's all. And real knowledge of science/logic methodologies.

Quote: ["Tell me please why that happens if it isn't God?"]

Now THAT is plain slogan-clichée bleep. Haven't you read ANYTHING on this thread?



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 04:33 PM
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I really have a hard time with people that can barely operate their remote making bold statements calling Christianity a fantasy . Most of the youngsters that post on this site would travel 10 miles on their knees to avoid knowing that the Bible is for real . Pot , meth , coke , alcohol ,alternative lifestyles parties ,music tatoos , whoredoms and other glitter gets into the way of religion . The Bible has told of the Global Government and the world wide control of money called the Mark Of the Beast for 2000 years . One idiot said how could the bible know about the internet2000 years ago being that it would be the only way to facilitate the control of buy , sell or trade . He didn't even think about what he said . How stupid . For your consumption the you will agree that ATOMIC BOMB is described in the Old Testament chapter Zachariah 14 verse 12 . How did the Bible do that some 2500 years ago .
The answer in if the Bible is true is in the PROPHECY . If these kids had half a mind they would at least read it .The word of God is not dead . It was handed down to be a-new to every soul that reads it . The Bible is not convienant ,not all comforting to those that read it . We all are convicted by it .It's not fun and thats where adolesence no matter what the age has a problem with it .
This world is about to go through a not so fun transformation very soon and the foolish will have no Idea whats going on . The next war in Israel will change the world . It biblical and it's soon along with a world economic failure .That will get those kids attention . All the toys will be gone and their stomache will be empty .



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by Adurna
 





It is impossible to understand God
.

Who told you this and how do you know it is true ?



First of all we cant bring him down to our level and ask why he had motivation.


Who told you this and how do you know this is true ?






He is not like us
.

Who told you this and how do you know this is true ?





We barely understand the human condition so how are we meant to understand Him?



Why should there be anything to understand about the human condition ? It is whatever it is, is it not ?

If there is an invisible man that lives in the sky how do you know you do not understand him did he tell you this or did he tell someone else to tell you that you do not understand him ?





Why is this a fantasy if we have proofs in the Holy Book which I wager none have you have actually read.


Well, ATS is surely the wrong place to wager that none of "us" have read your nonsense books and I can assure you that the majority of rational readers find many of them totally unholy nonsense.

Pleas provide the proof that you speak of



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 



I just looked up the thing you quoted. Now, I do indeed believe that this is the right quote. If not, please correct me.

v12 The *LORD will strike all the nations that fight against Jerusalem with this *plague:
· Their muscles will *rot while they are still standing on their feet.
· Their eyes will *rot in their heads.
· Their tongues will *rot in their mouths.

I don't see anything about an atomic bomb here?



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 


You wrote:

["The answer in if the Bible is true is in the PROPHECY ."]

Because prophecies usually are so vague, that the beloved theist method of unrestricted semantic 'interpretations' can lead to anything.

But apart from that, I believed that this thread demonstrated the OTHER christian validation. Pseudo-science. And then we mustn't forget the 'holy spirit' being THE proof. Or secret bible-codes. Or just plain circle-arguments on badly applied pseudo-philosophy.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 





I really have a hard time with people that can barely operate their remote making bold statements calling Christianity a fantasy


It is not a bold statement to relegate xtianity to fantasy land, there is no more evidence for the reality of the claims made in the new testaments than there is for fairies.

What I have a real hard time with is deluded muppets trying to push this nonsense on to rational people and children ad nauseum.

Dude give it up take your nonsense to church far more intellectually able people have completely failed to provide evidence for your godman and as always end up flinging their stubby little arms in the air claiming it's all a matter of faith anyway.

if you truly beleived any of the nonsense you spout then you wouldn't be here pushing for a fight would you?



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by Dezero
 





but I have witnessed the incredible power of prayer first hand.


Then this short video about the power of prayer should interest you a great deal and should give you greater understanding of ow prayer works, enjoy --




posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by ChristianJihad
reply to post by SimonPeter
 





I really have a hard time with people that can barely operate their remote making bold statements calling Christianity a fantasy


It is not a bold statement to relegate xtianity to fantasy land, there is no more evidence for the reality of the claims made in the new testaments than there is for fairies.

What I have a real hard time with is deluded muppets trying to push this nonsense on to rational people and children ad nauseum.

Dude give it up take your nonsense to church far more intellectually able people have completely failed to provide evidence for your godman and as always end up flinging their stubby little arms in the air claiming it's all a matter of faith anyway.

if you truly beleived any of the nonsense you spout then you wouldn't be here pushing for a fight would you?


What you and the atheist bogomil keep forgetting is, even if we can't prove the existence of God, not a one of you can DISPROVE Him either. This is a stalemate that will go on and on and on and on and on until the very end. Personally i choose to believe in Christ. You can go to wherever the hell you want to go, but as for me? I choose to be with God, and again not a one of you can prove that he doesnt exist so until you can, kick back and relax and have a tall glass of STFU..



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 05:38 PM
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here is my take, I suffer from a condition called spontaneous bilateral pneumothorax last event was a 100% left 92% right, happened 80kms from a hospital, Now In death is pain, not so much physical pain as suffocation is a bad way to go, but once you get over the physical pain of the event the dryness in the throat airways tightening the lack of oxygen in the body, all your muscles tightening up. The worst part about the hole thing with death is the thought process. the deepest thoughts and feeling of just wanting to live, experience life the struggle with in to be-able to continue on, hurts so much more then any pain i have ever experienced. up to the point of well death. then nothing. No feeling not thoughts no nothing. death and then BOOOM back to the land of the living thinking, is this it, is it true about the after life, and then to open the eyes to be back in the land of the living. That in it self was a rush i can not explain . So is there a god imo No. wasn't there when i passed over briefly.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


You wrote:

["What you and the atheist bogomil....."]

"Atheist Bogomil". Very witty or very unobservant.

Quote continued: [".......keep forgetting is, even if we can't prove the existence of God, not a one of you can DISPROVE Him either."]

Speaking for myself, I don't remember trying to do that here (or elsewhere for that matter). What I CAN do, and have done, is to bring up points, where theist doctrines and/or methodologies make testable positivistic claims.

Quote: ["This is a stalemate that will go on and on and on and on and on until the very end."]

Yes, with those interested in being at the other end in such a futile debate. I'm not.

Quote: ["Personally i choose to believe in Christ."]

Your missionary zeal strongly indicates, that this is beyond a 'personal belief'.

Quote: ["You can go to wherever the hell you want to go"]

Thank you...and time will show.

Quote: ["and again not a one of you can prove that he doesnt exist so until you can,"]

Why 'again'. I believe everybody got it the first time.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by ChristianJihad
reply to post by SimonPeter
 





I really have a hard time with people that can barely operate their remote making bold statements calling Christianity a fantasy


It is not a bold statement to relegate xtianity to fantasy land, there is no more evidence for the reality of the claims made in the new testaments than there is for fairies.

What I have a real hard time with is deluded muppets trying to push this nonsense on to rational people and children ad nauseum.

Dude give it up take your nonsense to church far more intellectually able people have completely failed to provide evidence for your godman and as always end up flinging their stubby little arms in the air claiming it's all a matter of faith anyway.

if you truly beleived any of the nonsense you spout then you wouldn't be here pushing for a fight would you?


What you and the atheist bogomil keep forgetting is, even if we can't prove the existence of God, not a one of you can DISPROVE Him either. This is a stalemate that will go on and on and on and on and on until the very end. Personally i choose to believe in Christ. You can go to wherever the hell you want to go, but as for me? I choose to be with God, and again not a one of you can prove that he doesnt exist so until you can, kick back and relax and have a tall glass of STFU..

Us atheists are not the ones making challenges and making bold statements here about being able to prove god exists.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 06:28 PM
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Energy cannot be created nor destroyed and can only change forms as you said in the OP. Thus, God must be dead and changed into a different form to create the world.

If God is dead, then how is he supposed to send down prophets and a holy book to Earth? Also, what is the point to praying to a dead God?

Secondly, if everything must have a beginning to it, then there are only two possible time lines of the Universe. Either the universe is on an infinite straight line that extends in both directions or the universe is in a circle. Both the belief in God and the belief in the Big Bang theory do not solve this issue.

Your whole Muslim diatribe was pointless and not scientific proof as to why you are a certain religion. It is impossible to scientifically prove why someone should be a certain religion because once you do that it loses its status as a religion.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by Adurna
 


Op You are making the assumption that Einstein was right. Your looking at the small picture rather than the big one. Everything is just theory until proven right or wrong. Thats just the way of logic. Science says that there is a big lump of iron and nickle at the center of the Earth. Its taught in schools and in books, yet its still just a theory at this point. Until we can actually go to the center and look at it and study it, it will remain a theory. The same goes for all religions. I'm not bashing your beliefs, I could care less what anyone else believes. But until you can prove that there is a creator that isn't just some ET splicing genes and leaving them on other planets it will still be a theory to me.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by davesmart
reply to post by Adurna
 


hi op
il have a wee stab
first of all how are we all born muslim then its took away
i believe in god an essence an energy that created us humans and animals.
i believe all religion is bull and just a concept to controll the masses
i will never agree with the bible
how can i believe a story/ies that have been written hundreds of years later
i believe in the here and now and if we all dont get along then there is no hope for the future
maybe armagedon is the only way to wipe out this corrupt world
whom knows
i know this planet is getting sicker by the day and religion is the cause of most of it
yeh i might get slated and bashed for this but in all simplicity
i could not give a toss
bye bye sick world


oh yeh i just bread a new type of killer rabbit
am i its creator?
edit on 23-8-2011 by davesmart because: (no reason given)
LOOL. im not any religion im not religions but i find your post to be rather weird:/ but you also gotta relize you have no proof there is not either. how bout the napkin religion... because it says its real right here



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