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Challenge to Atheists!

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posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by Honor93
 


I present to two scientific statements: Energy cannot be created or destroyed but must be converted from one form to another. The second statement is Einstein's famous theory of relativity which is E=M C2 which is energy equals mass by the speed of light which if simplified that everything around is energy. If everything around us is energy that means that all the energy was there at the big bang and prior to it. Many people say that there could have been a universe before this one and there could of been but you must have an absolute at the beginning that did not have a beginning otherwise you are waiting for the previous one to be created from nothing therefore your waiting for nothing to set something in motion. Many atheists ask me why doesn't God show himself. Well first if he creates everything he is must transcend everything. If he creates time and space then he does not exist within time and space which is where we all reside.




posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by Adurna
 


Well scientists have proven that they can create a tiny pocket that is outside of time using a hadron collider, in which time flows around it and the object inside is almost in a type of stasis, time just stops for this object, so it IS possible for something or even someone to exist outside of time which just happens to be where God is. So in effect man has discovered that yes, there is indeed space outside of time, but this space outside of time requires a MASSIVE amount of energy to sustain. I wonder what the power source is
.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by Adurna
 

hahahahahaha


so, that's the newest tactic eh?
once your 'theories' have been blown outta the water, just rinse and repeat ??? interesting indeed.
are you auditioning or something?
or maybe just trying to repeat it enough that you'll actually believe it ??


well ok whatever, do as you will ... we all serve a purpose and apparently you've found yours. enjoy.

*** note -- what if i stated that this Universe is merely a child of another ... did your god create that one too? or other galaxies, are they also created by the same singular god entity?
since none of the above can be scientifically proven, which is wrong and how do you know ?



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by Adurna
reply to post by iterationzero
 


God didn't come from nothing if he was always there. I proved that God exists I didn't say I understand Him. There are so many things we know but we don't know why they are the way they are.
edit on 23-8-2011 by Adurna because: (no reason given)


Then why couldn't energy and matter have always been there?



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by Adurna
reply to post by davesmart
 


Its fools like you who continuously bring things like that up and refuse to see that those people are the minority make the majority look bad are hated equally by the Muslims across the world and you are told that is not Islam and yet you continue to use them to justify yourself!


fools like me ay?
ive been curtious to you
just because your getting bashed you have to rever to the anger pitch
i apologise in advance
You are that stuff i accidently stepp in and wipe it of with disgust
if u cant take the disagreeing
dont bloody post
i wash my hands of you
you hypocryte



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by Adurna
 


what if your god are just highly advanced ETs that have the power to make anything, even human kind, through science? why do humans have to be so narcissistic and believe that we were created by something divine instead of something real. maybe we were made to slave away in the gold mines for these gods? we may be special, but we're not that special. i just don't understand why we as humans still have to believe in such ignorant concepts. you might as well say "I challenge you to prove that J.K. Rowling wrote what she wanted to write in harry potter."
edit on 23-8-2011 by Rekrul because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 10:52 AM
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reply to post by Nosred
 


Well so far the only energy and matter there is, resides in the universe which we know has a beginning and an end



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by Rekrul
reply to post by Adurna
 

i just don't understand why we as humans still have to believe in such ignorant concepts. you might as well say "I challenge you to prove that J.K. Rowling wrote what she wanted to write in harry potter."


Harry Potter is the messiah, he used a time turner to travel back in time and create the universe using the Elder Wand's powerful magic. Thus it is written, it must be true!



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by Adurna
 


take some lighter fluid, pour it on the ground, then light it. was that energy there before you you poured the lighter fluid on the ground? no it wasn't. so that means the energy that was here was destroyed to create new energy. nobody knows what was here before the big bang. also there is no end in sight for anything. especially our universe. if you were to end our universe you would have to take a hyper giant star and swipe it through our galaxy.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by Adurna
 


You wrote:

["If everything around us is energy that means that all the energy was there at the big bang and prior to it."]

Sorry Dude, the 'intelligent design' model is bosh. And had you been more 'around' on this forum, you would by now know why.

Quote: ["The reason God gave us religion is to tell us what is right and what is wrong. Otherwise how are we meant to know?"]

The standard circle-argument. The self-proclaimed (whatever) 'proves' itself.

Quote: ["Morality doesn't exist in science!"]

Not in 'hard' science, which doesn't operate with such. In the soft social sciences the morality concept is considered, and various morality-models are presented and tested pragmatically.

I regret to state an unsympathetic opinion: This isn't much of a 'challenge'. It's rehashing dead postulates still one more time.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Adurna
 


Well scientists have proven that they can create a tiny pocket that is outside of time using a hadron collider, in which time flows around it and the object inside is almost in a type of stasis, time just stops for this object, so it IS possible for something or even someone to exist outside of time which just happens to be where God is. So in effect man has discovered that yes, there is indeed space outside of time, but this space outside of time requires a MASSIVE amount of energy to sustain. I wonder what the power source is
.


It ONLY demonstrates, that a trans-cosmic existence level is possible. It does NOT say anything about 'gods', which still are the same theist speculations, as they always have been.

The use of inductive pseudo-logic here is significant, as it demonstrates the special theist branch of 'logic', not the standard logic used by science/logic.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 11:51 AM
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I'll play this hypothetical game.

So, given the first law of thermodynamics, and the law of mass conservation.

So god always existed?

When god created the universe, did he permanently lose that mass(or the energy required to make it). And did he lose all the energy that's in the universe too? How much more does he have left?

After billions of years of entropy, maybe that explains why he doesn't show up anymore. "God is Dead".

~
I personally find the theory that energy and mass always existed, much more believable than all the assumptions you have to take to say it didn't but god did. I'm just hypotheticalling to see what you think.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by Rekrul
 


Actually the lighter fluid could be classified as chemical energy.

reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx
 


Not if he was, as he is described in all three religions infinite, which would mean infinite energy.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by bogomil
 


But it IS POSSIBLE!



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 12:23 PM
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Right ok....

1) "God" The creator of energy, life, the universe and everything... writes an owners manual, a book of rules....

Have you got handwriting experts to examine his handwriting to prove it was him or did he print it out?

erm... ok

2) You have ZERO proof and when pressed you change the subject.

3) Your answers are vague at best

4) When asked questions that 100% smash your theories and beliefs to pieces you use the old religion "NUKE" option... ""God is mysterious"" answer.

5) Most atheists look at this from all points of view and form a logical view to believe in most religious people only look from one point of view.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Adurna
reply to post by bogomil
 


But it IS POSSIBLE!


I hope this doesn't come across as condescending, but you would save many of us a lot of time and do yourself a favour, if you familiarized yourself with the basics of atheists vs. theists, objective vs.subjective, facts vs. faith or 'agnostic positions' vs. 'gnostic positions'.

As to the specifics of 'possible' this depends on the doctrinal 'wrappings' of each situation. Sometimes it's easy to disclaim 'gnostic' (positivistic) claims on the spot (in both a short and a long version), sometimes a "we don't really know" is the presently best answer.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by Mister_Bit
Right ok....

1) "God" The creator of energy, life, the universe and everything... writes an owners manual, a book of rules....

Have you got handwriting experts to examine his handwriting to prove it was him or did he print it out?

erm... ok

2) You have ZERO proof and when pressed you change the subject.

3) Your answers are vague at best

4) When asked questions that 100% smash your theories and beliefs to pieces you use the old religion "NUKE" option... ""God is mysterious"" answer.

5) Most atheists look at this from all points of view and form a logical view to believe in most religious people only look from one point of view.


Its a guide for us not him. When ever I have had proof its rejected and I don't change the subject I am expanding the subject as many of you are taking different angles so must I. Tell me where am I vague and I will try to clarify and when have my "theories" been smashed 100%. I am trying to describe him from different points of view but then you say I am vague.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by Adurna
 


Bubblegum flavoured dandelions exists on a part of a planet that is just out of reach of our best telescopes.

If you can't prove me wrong, my theory must be cogent, and valid.

PS. claim you have invisible sock gremlins in your shoes? I can't prove you wrong either.

It's nice to have evidence when asserting truth.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by Adurna
 


You wrote:

["Tell me where am I vague and I will try to clarify and when have my "theories" been smashed 100%"]

I am at your service. Please re-read my initial posts, which are as down-to-earth as you can get them.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by Adurna

Originally posted by Mister_Bit
Right ok....

1) "God" The creator of energy, life, the universe and everything... writes an owners manual, a book of rules....

Have you got handwriting experts to examine his handwriting to prove it was him or did he print it out?

erm... ok

2) You have ZERO proof and when pressed you change the subject.

3) Your answers are vague at best

4) When asked questions that 100% smash your theories and beliefs to pieces you use the old religion "NUKE" option... ""God is mysterious"" answer.

5) Most atheists look at this from all points of view and form a logical view to believe in most religious people only look from one point of view.


Its a guide for us not him. When ever I have had proof its rejected and I don't change the subject I am expanding the subject as many of you are taking different angles so must I. Tell me where am I vague and I will try to clarify and when have my "theories" been smashed 100%. I am trying to describe him from different points of view but then you say I am vague.

You keep saying science can prove god or that you have proof but you never provide that proof. Show us where science "proves" god... not energy, not explosions.... GOD the creator.

In all seriousness.... how can you provide proof that the "book of rules" came from god himself, you can't, you may believe that and I certainly wont attack you for your belief but the truth is, you can't prove it.

I commend you for your belief, I respect that totally but I fail to see where your proof is. Sadly religious types do not seem to understand the difference between FAITH and PROOF.

I do understand the point you make about god being "outside" the universe, it's an idea I've not really thought about but it's an interesting angle.



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