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Challenge to Atheists!

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posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 09:15 AM
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reply to post by Adurna
 

hey there, am no atheist here but i wonder if you really thought through your statements.
scientific theory is one thing but even it leaves the barn doors wide open to interpretation and application.

I agree with your initial statement ...

Energy cannot be created or destroyed but must be converted from one form to another.
yet, you also believe a single god created all of it ??

well ok then, you keep believing it.

then, you go on to say

E=M C2 which is energy equals mass by the speed of light which if simplified that everything around is energy. If everything around us is energy that means that all the energy was there at the big bang and prior to it
yet, you still believe a single god created it ??
personally, i find that amazing and amusing.

so, based on your scientific theory, would it be safe to presume that this god may actually be the devil in disguise?
after all, if he created this 'big bang' you insist happened (not proven mind you) then he must be one vicious, angry, destructive entity, eh?

Science and morality have never played nice together, pick any experiment and i guarantee there will be some immoral aspect to it.

Nature on the other hand, exhibits morality in everything and with nature as guide and teacher, who needs any book? especially incomplete, re-written or fictional ones.

If it is dialogue you seek, you may want to begin with an open mind.




posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 09:15 AM
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If people want to be religious that's fine (as long as it isn't shoved in peoples faces)

There is NO PROOF of God or Jesus, religion is JUST STORIES, that got out of hand over the years - Basically Chinese whispers!

That's what 'I' believe, but I know it doesn't make me right!



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by Adurna
 


First of all, sorry that English is not my mother tongue, and that accidental typos might occur. Of course, that would have been ignored if you had a valid argument to support your claim, but since your haven't, you decide to attack at a much lower level. Good on you

Greek scientists knew that the Earth wasn't flat. They observed how the masts of the ships were visible before the actual ship.
A bit more:
en.wikipedia.org...
A side note: Guess who suppressed the thought of the spherical Earth? That's right. The Church



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 09:22 AM
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reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


What I am saying is that we can prove he exists with science that there is a creator but we cannot define him with science. I do not understand what contradiction. The Universe has a beginning and an end so something had to set into motion as it could not have come into being itself. God Himself doesn't have a beginning or and end as he does not exist within time and the whole concept of a beginning and an end involves time. If God is everything then what happens when everything ends? What I'm saying is that from a scientific point of view morality doesn't exist but from another point of if everything comes from God then so does morality. Morality itself is planted in the human being but the Book is like a guide.
I'm enjoying this discussion with you, you do seem to think things through.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 09:23 AM
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reply to post by VikingDude
 


That was just an example..And I already said that the Church was corrupted. You know during the dark ages in the west the Muslims were responsible for many innovations that still exist within our time.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 09:25 AM
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reply to post by Adurna
 


Yet that has got nothing to do with the topic we are currently discussing.
2nd



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by VikingDude
 


Would you care to clarify your argument then instead of incessant ridicules?
edit on 23-8-2011 by Adurna because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by Adurna
 


What I am saying is that we can prove he exists with science that there is a creator

i know that many ppl would be very interested in such science but since it does NOT exist, how can you even make such a lame statement?



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by Adurna
 




What I am saying is that we can prove he exists with science that there is a creator but we cannot define him with science. I do not understand what contradiction. The Universe has a beginning and an end so something had to set into motion as it could not have come into being itself. God Himself doesn't have a beginning or and end as he does not exist within time and the whole concept of a beginning and an end involves time.
So basically you're stating God exists in a whole different dimension which is essentially timeless? As I said, you still need to explain how you reached this conclusion and how it can be possible. But it obviously can't be explained within the framework of science can it? We probably wont ever be able to detect this dimension in which you claim God exists, so how is it you can have so much faith that this hidden God even exists at all? Because some books told you? How can you trust the people that told you those books contain the truth? Or did you read the books and feel it was the truth by yourself?



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by Honor93
 


What do you mean such science does not exist? Honestly do you really believe the Universe just came into being on its own?



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 09:34 AM
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reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


I take back what I said about enjoying talking to you.. Anyway what I am trying to say is in away God is self contained. And how about you actually read the Book instead of slandering it?



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 09:37 AM
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reply to post by Adurna
 


I share alot of beliefs with you except parts about christianity. Yes it was corrupted in the Dark Ages by the Holy Roman Catholic Church, and they co-signed many atrocities, amoung which they are responsible are the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition. They murdered tens of thousands of protestant christians because they refused to convert to catholicism and some christians were burned as heretics and witches, which is where the Protestant Reformation began to take root after.

You cannot say that Muslim is about the natural order. There is nothing natural about exploding bombs in crowds of unsuspecting people and then saying it's "God's Will". The last time i checked no man knows the will of God because we cannot read his mind and to say that an act of murder which the commandment "thou shalt not murder" is firmly against, cannot be in God's Will.

The 3 abrahamic faiths have ALL been corrupted, by murder,greed,avarice,lies and deceit, not just any one of the faiths. It is up to the true believers to put a stop to it. Abraham would be ashamed to know that his son's beget nations and faiths that murder eachother and claiming it in God's name.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Yes I agree with you, but I think you misunderstood me. What I meant was is that core aspects of the religion are still there. Those extremists who kill innocents are not religious at all.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by Adurna
 


Mkay, I will make it a bit more simple.
I don't see how you trying to change topic by stating '' You know during the dark ages in the west the Muslims were responsible for many innovations that still exist within our time'' would possibly belong in our discussion about religion. If you want an argument from me regarding religion, then I ask you to re-read my previous posts



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by Adurna
reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


Concerning the matter of energy, yes it all came from God. Yes God always has been and always will be because he does not exist within the laws of the universe as he creates them. Yes it had to have absolute beginning because something cant come from nothing as you need to have a action to start a reaction but something else has to set action in motion. I think you also misinterpreted me. God is not the Universe as we know the universe has a beginning and an end. I'm saying God created the Universe and all its laws so he doesn't exist within the laws of physics as we know today such as time and space. Morality itself does not exist within science. A murderer may not feel the same way if he killed his father in cold-blood? How is he to know that it is wrong then? I agree with your description of religious extremists but I'm not an extremist.


Who or what created God? Your logic is faulty. Nothing can be created from nothing. God, therefore, is nothing.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by NightFlight
 


But God was never created he always was and is and always will be.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by VikingDude
reply to post by Adurna
 


No, it is impossible to PROVE that God exists. Therefore, we must conclude that God does not exits. Unless of course God decides to pop out of the sky all of a sudden. Face it or continue to live in ignorance.
We have to re-think religion and base it on something that can actually improve relations between humans. Instead of basing it upon belief, it should be a way of living. And I'm not talking about turning the other cheek or ANYTHING like that.
Being nice and helpful towards others, stop hating other people for the colour of their skin and stop being so damn selfish. Being a better person will make YOU God in my mind


Just because you can't prove something exists doesnt mean it does NOT exist. In archeology we have a saying "abscence of evidence is not evidence of absence". In fact, for HUNDREDS of years japanese fishermen have been saying Goblin Sharks were real and that they have seen them. They had no proof, but lo and behold one day a japanese fisherman catches a Goblin Shark and takes it to a university and what do you know, a species that was imaginary became REAL. Its the same principle. Were discovering species that were thought to have gone extinct millions of years ago still live, and were also discovering species that were thought to be figments of peoples imaginations are real. It's the same concept with God. There will be people who claims he is real and people who claim he is a fairy tale, until the day arrives when he shows up and makes everyone who thought he was a myth look like a fool.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by Adurna
 


that is 1 point i will agree on
they are brainwashed beyond means with i suspect a little certain type of drug
you only have to search kamakazi
and you will come up with the japanese in ww2
they were laced and treated like god for a few hours before redemption
KILLING IN THE NAME OF GOD
dont make me bloody laugh
il kill in the name of protection and preservasion
theyl kill for the chance of 72 virgins



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by davesmart
 


Its fools like you who continuously bring things like that up and refuse to see that those people are the minority make the majority look bad are hated equally by the Muslims across the world and you are told that is not Islam and yet you continue to use them to justify yourself!



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by Adurna
reply to post by Honor93
 


What do you mean such science does not exist? Honestly do you really believe the Universe just came into being on its own?

ok first, i never said anything about how the Universe came into existence (you did).
false claims does not make it so and i will call you out on it, every time.

i have my own ideas about how humans came about within this particular Universe, but you negated to query upon such a topic so don't pretend you know something you obviously don't.

As for any science that Proves god is creator OR that a creator exists, show me.



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