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ATS, Defend Yourselves For Chosing Social Policy As Major Reason For ATS Straw Poll Votes

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posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 05:39 PM
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After Seeing The ATS Democratic Straw Poll Results I Must Ask ATS To Defend Itself On Why Social Issues Played A Major Role In Your Decision Making Process

I mean what's the deal?

Tell me something, does deciding to forever treat your son as a kid for the rest of his life going to prove to be a major positive tactic towards his life?

How could a large number of grown ups want big govt. to treat them like children?
And how can such people even think they have a valid argument when they make the conscious decision to be treated like children?

Shouldn't allowing people to make their own decisions in life be a major part of a free and intelligent society?

Please note I am talking about big govt. parenting you so please consider law enforcement as a separate topic




posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 



Shouldn't allowing people to make their own decisions in life be a major part of a free and intelligent society?


If we actually were an intelligent society...I might agree.


But as things stand...yes...some people need to be "parented" by the government.



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 05:48 PM
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Democrats voted for a guy last time around who's only credential he could scrape up was "community organizer", so it is no suprise to me that social issues were chosen. They are just defending themselves by making that choice here in this poll. My only question, was it a subconscious act or did they actually think that choice through?



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
If we actually were an intelligent society...I might agree.

I knew it
I knew someone would say this and you fell into my trap
That's specifically why I gave the analogy that a son being treated like a child forever cannot grow up to be intelligent

Same with society, you treat it like a being full of kids and being run by elected brats which you decide to empower you will not get an intelligent society


Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
But as things stand...yes...some people need to be "parented" by the government.

And the son?
Once the damage is done only possible next step is continue doing it?



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 05:51 PM
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I consider it telling about their character. The federal government should have no input into social areas at all. If government intervention were necessary(it isn't imo) then it should be handled at the state and local levels.



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 



I knew it
I knew someone would say this and you fell into my trap


I don't see how it is a trap...were you setting a trap to find the truth?

If you think we live in an intelligent society...I suggest you open your eyes and take a look around every once in awhile.



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
If you think we live in an intelligent society...I suggest you open your eyes and take a look around every once in awhile.

I think you only read what you quoted

The other thing i mentioned was how if you keep treating society like children it won't grow up to be a very intelligent society.
Responsible people tend to be intelligent people
edit on 22-8-2011 by ModernAcademia because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 06:01 PM
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So is the purpose of this thread to dissect the straw poll or stir up crap aimed at liberals? If it's the later, you're doing quite well.



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 06:05 PM
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What were you expecting... all of them to vote for Ron Paul?

Oh wait...



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
So is the purpose of this thread to dissect the straw poll or stir up crap aimed at liberals?

See the problem is what that statement means
I understand libs are really pro-social policy but that doesn't mean 100% of those who chose that as important are libs.
I believe that social policies is big govt. treating society like children
So to me you are saying that 100% of liberals like to be treated like children and wish to empower a very corrupt and out of control federal govt. with parenthood over society.

The only possible and inevitable outcome of such a stage is fascism.

So no I don't think that 100% of liberals are pro-fascism and don't even know it



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by David9176
What were you expecting... all of them to vote for Ron Paul?

Oh wait...

No and I don't think he should have gotten any write-ins either, because in the real world that's throwing away a vote

Do you have anything pertinent to the topic to say?



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 06:11 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Forgive me if your statement doesn't resonate with me. That's being nice. Others would just say BS. Check the political spectrum and see how wrong this assumption is:




posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 06:11 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 

Because bootstraps don't work for everyone? Because many realize no matter how things 'should be' there will continue to be those at a disadvantage somehow, and therefore an effort for equality, to some degree seems warranted. Entitlement reform? Heck yes, but some entitlement contributes to the well being of a society, and the lack of could put/create more criminals and insane individuals on the street, to then become a more direct burden to society. The disabled, elderly, injured, poor(not by choice either) and mentally ill need some help. The problem is when the debate falls into an either or situation, as in all gov nanny states, or no gov at all. The answer lies in the middle somewhere, but flaming rhetoric pumped out by media and pundits spread to the people who then regurgitate the futile divisiveness, and nothing ever gets done except name calling and finger pointing.

ETA: Perhaps another difference in people's perspective is personal experience. Maybe some are more empathetic because one of the challenges I listed could be individuals in someone's family or neighborhood, or work place or just a friend, and thus they are more sensitive to the issue, because they have seen the damaging neglect up close, whereas people who have not had any of these challenges in their family or world, would be less sympathetic.

edit on 22-8-2011 by speculativeoptimist because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
After Seeing The ATS Democratic Straw Poll Results I Must Ask ATS To Defend Itself On Why Social Issues Played A Major Role In Your Decision Making Process
>>>snip



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid



Aaa
Aha LOL

Firstly you have Stalin on the far left
Secondly Einstein?

So Einstein would have voted Democrat?
Einstein:

"Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either."


Einstein would have been an independent

Einstein would prefer a society that was forced to pay for other people's well being?
Einstein:

"Force always attracts men of low morality."

I disagree

And..
Einstein

"Nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced."

Universal healthcare cannot be forever enforced and should not be subsidized by force either
BAM!!!!!!!!

Department of Education?
Einstein:

"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education."


Print more money and bailout?
Einstein:

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."


This is an overwhelming wealth of evidence that Einstein would never vote Democrat.
he belongs in the middle

Mussolini on the far right?
Remember the battle over the Southern Problem in 1924?
That was govt. trying to fix poverty in lower Italy, of course it was a complete failure just like cash for clunkers

He was also for federally managed infrastructure

That map is extremely flawed



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Responsible people tend to be intelligent people

When will we see some "intelligence" from "responsible" people in the ranks of national politicians on the right (or left for that matter)?

Some of the attributes of the balanced budget requirements coming from the "tea party" and the loudest of other leading conservatives in the scramble for 2012 seems to be the utmost of stupidity.



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Responsible people tend to be intelligent people

When will we see some "intelligence" from "responsible" people in the ranks of national politicians on the right (or left for that matter)?
Never, such creatures are mythical or perhaps extinct.


Originally posted by SkepticOverlordSome of the attributes of the balanced budget requirements coming from the "tea party" and the loudest of other leading conservatives in the scramble for 2012 seems to be the utmost of stupidity.
I absolutely agree. The way they are writing this thing, the courts will be able to order tax increases. Do they think we are as stupid as they are?



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
After Seeing The ATS Democratic Straw Poll Results I Must Ask ATS To Defend Itself On Why Social Issues Played A Major Role In Your Decision Making Process


...I Did Not Participate In That Poll - But - Now, I Am Compelled To Ask You To, Please, Identify Your Party Affiliation - And - More Importantly, I Must Say, I Destest This Style Of Typing...



Originally posted by ModernAcademia
I mean what's the deal?


...i dunno... maybe it has something to do with the reality that some people are creatures of habit to the extent that they're OCD about it...


Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Tell me something, does deciding to forever treat your son as a kid for the rest of his life going to prove to be a major positive tactic towards his life?


...who does that?...
...and how come they dont do the same for their daughter?... is it because they know females are smarter?... well, yanno, they may have a point there but its certainly not fair to pick on the boy child just cuz they believe his genes are miswired...



Originally posted by ModernAcademia
How could a large number of grown ups want big govt. to treat them like children?


...social programs do not necessarily equate to wanting the government to treat citizens like children... sometimes it an effort to establish fairness, a level playing field, in a society that was built upon racial and religious intolerance (but the historians always lied about that and lots of folks still dont believe anything but the OS)...

...however, regardless of what good can be done for those who are truly in need, i do see some social programs as a very sharp double-edge sword and i dont believe those who control our government are unaware of its deadly potential...


Originally posted by ModernAcademia
And how can such people even think they have a valid argument when they make the conscious decision to be treated like children?


...for some, its that ocd thang... for others, say those who have been trapped in multi-generational government enforced poverty, its much more complicated than ocd...


Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Shouldn't allowing people to make their own decisions in life be a major part of a free and intelligent society?


...yep, in a perfect world where there are no mental deficients, narcissists, psychopaths, sadists, sociopaths, etc - but - in case you havent noticed, we dont live in that world...


Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Please note I am talking about big govt. parenting you so please consider law enforcement as a separate topic


...isnt your very politely delivered "direction" sorta kinda a way of you treating other posters as children?... i'm sure that wasnt your intent... just saying that it could sorta kinda maybe look that way to some...



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by speculativeoptimist
Entitlement reform? Heck yes, but some entitlement contributes to the well being of a society, and the lack of could put/create more criminals and insane individuals on the street, to then become a more direct burden to society.

Once again as stated in the OP please consider law enforcement as a separate topic
breaking the law and entitlements are completely separate topics.


Originally posted by speculativeoptimist
ETA: Perhaps another difference in people's perspective is personal experience. Maybe some are more empathetic because one of the challenges I listed could be individuals in someone's family or neighborhood, or work place or just a friend, and thus they are more sensitive to the issue, because they have seen the damaging neglect up close, whereas people who have not had any of these challenges in their family or world, would be less sympathetic.

This is not about sympathy
You should always use logic and intellect when deciding how a govt. should run
that is not being unsympathetic
It's just what would result in the best possible outcome for society as a whole



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
You should always use logic and intellect when deciding how a govt. should run

Then none of the Republican contenders, or the incumbent, qualify for the role of President.

What do we do now?



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