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Where are the people?

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posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by Yankee451
reply to post by behindthescenes
 



i speak for me, not "you all", and if any of your colleagues really were pretty sharp people, they'd be sharp enough to know what sort of article gets published, and what sort of article gets you into the unemployment office.

Tell me, sharp guy, what do you think of the comments of these folks:


"You could get a journalist cheaper than a good call girl, for a couple hundred dollars a month." - CIA operative discussing with Philip Graham, editor Washington Post, on the availability and prices of journalists willing to peddle CIA propaganda and cover stories. - "Katherine The Great," by Deborah Davis (New York: Sheridan Square Press, 1991)

Source




“ THE conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.

We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society.”

“To-day, however, a reaction has set in. The minority has discovered a powerful help in influencing majorities. It has been found possible so to mold the mind of the masses that they will throw their newly gained strength in the desired direction. In the present structure of society, this practice is inevitable. Whatever of social importance is done to-day, whether in politics, finance, manufacture, agriculture, charity, education, or other fields, must be done with the help of propaganda. Propaganda is the executive arm of the invisible government”

- Edward Bernays, Sigmund Freud's cousin, and the Father of Modern propaganda.


Source




In the second half of the 20th century, the burgeoning American media was co-opted by something called Operation Mockingbird, the CIA's subversion of the free press in America. Frank Wisner, who ran the project in the 1940s and 1950s for the Agency, once famously said that the American media was like his own "...personal Wurlitzer; I can play any tune I want on it and America will follow along."

In the 1970s, CIA director William Colby admitted, "The CIA owns assets at every major media outlet in America, TV networks, newspapers, publishing houses, and magazines."

In a 1977 Rolling Stone article, Carl Bernstein estimated that there were hundreds, perhaps thousands, of CIA-friendly assets at all the major TV networks, newspapers and periodicals in America.





We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false. -- William Casey, CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


www.abovetopsecret.com...




Kinda hard to have an intelligent debate with someone whose cynicism bleeds with every word he writes. But okay.

First, the world is a very different place today than it was in the height of the Cold War - for journalism and for all industries. The rules and views of patriotism have changed, perhaps most clearly in the wake of Watergate.

Now, that does not mean that, as a reporter, I will take the views, input and sourced information from my most valued sources for a story? Yep. I will admit that sometimes that will color a story in favor of a point-of-view. But am I being paid by sources? No. Am I not checking information out independently? Of course I am. If I didn't then, that's when my publication would be putting me on the unemployment line.

National politics and stories are not my beat. I have never covered 9/11 nor any of the issues surrounding it. I will admit much of the official story is weak, at best. But I'm not hired to write about this professionally, so I'm not spending time and resources to look into this. I was more curious what many of you have heard or believe.

As an observer, though, I will say that the main thesis of the it was a missile argument is where are the real passengers. That's not something that can be easily faked. Nor is that something, if faked, that would be kept secret for long. Sorry. Just not possible.

I watched the final cut of "Loose Change," and noticed that the filmmakers even dropped that line of conspiracy, sort of glossing over whether or not a plane hit the Pentagon without delving into where the original passengers would be.

Seems to be one of the biggest elephants in the room when talking to 9/11 Truthers.




posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by Yankee451
 



I have never made those claims. You are putting words in my mouth.

Its what your claim requires. Answer the question - how do you go back in time and insert names in yearbooks?

How many CIA assets have real pasts with real photos in yearbooks?

Uh, the real ones?

Can you think of any good use for a live CIA asset that is now publicly proclaimed dead, yet still receiving payment from the VCF?

Huh?

In my Psychos thread I discuss how the towers were planned to be demolished in the 80's allowing plenty of time to create false IDs, wire for explosives, and build a cover story that terrorists hate America.

And if your fake victim pre-dates the 80's?

I'll let the readers put two and two together, because your math is kinda fuzzy.

OK, yeah. My math is funny. But you think the CIA has access to a time machine.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by behindthescenes
 


Kinda hard to take someone's criticism of my cynicism seriously when they begin their screed with :



Kinda hard to have an intelligent debate with someone whose cynicism bleeds with every word he writes



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by hooper
 


This particular straw man is sillier than your usual ones.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by Yankee451
reply to post by hooper
 


This particular straw man is sillier than your usual ones.


Sorry, this is your delusion, not mine. You want to "fake" public figures than you need to go all the way back and insert them into the reality of history. That includes copies of public records that may be in the hands of any given individual. Like high school year books. So please explain.

Don't like the high school year book? How about birth announcements in newspapers? Is that one a little easier? Don't forget there are newspaper records in almost every library.

No wait, that wasn't the route you were going to take, was it? You wanted to post some photos and claim look alikes or some other nonsense, huh? Well it doesn't work that way.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by hooper
 





Sorry, this is your delusion, not mine. You want to "fake" public figures than you need to go all the way back and insert them into the reality of history. That includes copies of public records that may be in the hands of any given individual. Like high school year books. So please explain.

Don't like the high school year book? How about birth announcements in newspapers? Is that one a little easier? Don't forget there are newspaper records in almost every library.

No wait, that wasn't the route you were going to take, was it? You wanted to post some photos and claim look alikes or some other nonsense, huh? Well it doesn't work that way.



You seem content with psychedelic paraphrasing. If you've got a point to make, make it with an example, otherwise, your usual drivel and accusations of delusion are a boor..
edit on 23-8-2011 by Yankee451 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by Yankee451
 


Its pretty simple - you refered to the victims as alleged victims. That can mean one of two things - that you think that the persons who died didn't die (hence the alleged victimization) or you don't believe they exist in the first place. So which is it? Do you think the victims are real or not?



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by Yankee451
 


Its pretty simple - you refered to the victims as alleged victims. That can mean one of two things - that you think that the persons who died didn't die (hence the alleged victimization) or you don't believe they exist in the first place. So which is it? Do you think the victims are real or not?



al·leged

adjective /əˈlejd/ 

(of an incident or a person) Said, without proof, to have taken place or to have a specified illegal or undesirable quality
- the alleged conspirators


www.google.com...:en-US
fficial&client=firefox-a#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=wKJ&rls=org.mozil la:en-US
fficial&q=alleged&tbs=dfn:1&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=Hw9UTt2cK_LViAKO5u3WDA&ved=0CBoQkQ4&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=a4928e5e8a1fad2e&biw=853&bih=639

Hooper...

Who do you think you're kidding here? You're flailing around like a child. If you can give an example of a passenger whose families and past can be investigated, please provide it.

The fact is, the government withheld the passenger lists for years, so they had time even AFTER the event to fabricate anything they wanted.

Planes would not have been used because they can and are identified after crashes and they cannot cause the destruction and explosion needed for the Shock and Awe impact...WE were the ultimate targets, not the towers. Most of the planes would have bounced off in real life, therefore, we were shown fake video, implications be damned. No planes means no passengers.

If they'd show us video of physically impossible events, lie to our faces about terrorists as a pretext to start racist wars for plunder and imperialism, poison a whole city with carcinogenic particulates and bomb their own military headquarters, they'd be able to fake a couple hundred IDs. They probably have terabytes of fake IDs ready for any given situation as it is, doncha think? Or do you assume spies just make it all up as they go?

They turned their military machine on us that day...how's it feel to be on the receiving end?

edit on 23-8-2011 by Yankee451 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by Yankee451
 



If you can give an example of a passenger whose families and past can be investigated, please provide it.


All of them. Now go ahead and tell me how or why you can't. By the way, investigate should not be conflated with investigoogle.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by Yankee451
Planes would not have been used because they can and are identified after crashes and they cannot cause the destruction and explosion needed for the Shock and Awe impact...WE were the ultimate targets, not the towers. Most of the planes would have bounced off in real life, therefore, we were shown fake video, implications be damned. No planes means no passengers


OMG... Dude... An entire city of people watched planes fly right into the buildings, with their own eyes, in person. They were staring right at them, from every conceivable angle. They heard the noise... Everything. Can you tell the difference between TV and real life? This didn't just happen on TV. New York is a real city, with real people. Bounced off??? What are you talking about? It's a light frame covered with thin aluminum sheet hitting a building made with giant steel beams, at high velocity. Hello? Why would you possibly think that should 'bounce off'? When has any airliner crashing ever "bounced" off anything, ever?



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by Yankee451
 



If you can give an example of a passenger whose families and past can be investigated, please provide it.


All of them. Now go ahead and tell me how or why you can't. By the way, investigate should not be conflated with investigoogle.


Okay then. All of them.

Why do I know all the passengers were fake? Because the planes were fake.

When you look around this forum at the millions of words wasted discussing the planes and how the buildings defied gravity and known physical science in their collapses, the one thing everyone on both sides are relying on is the video evidence.

Take away that, and what are you left with?

N O T H I N G

Well, let me do the honors once again. If any video or photograph can be shown to be fraudulent, they should all be tossed.

Observe:







I'm betting your response will likely be cackling ridicule, or silence. I'm pretty sure the implications of the above will ensure cognitive dissonance will carry the day.

Hat tip to Equinox.

letsrollforums.com...


edit on 23-8-2011 by Yankee451 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 06:03 PM
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reply to post by dpd11
 





OMG... Dude... An entire city of people watched planes fly right into the buildings, with their own eyes, in person.


No they didn't, and I'm not your dude.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by Yankee451
 



Why do I know all the passengers were fake? Because the planes were fake.

So the people don't exist?


When you look around this forum at the millions of words wasted discussing the planes and how the buildings defied gravity and known physical science in their collapses, the one thing everyone on both sides are relying on is the video evidence.

Take away that, and what are you left with?

Thousands of witnesses and physical remains of the airplanes.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by Yankee451
 



Why do I know all the passengers were fake? Because the planes were fake.

So the people don't exist?


When you look around this forum at the millions of words wasted discussing the planes and how the buildings defied gravity and known physical science in their collapses, the one thing everyone on both sides are relying on is the video evidence.

Take away that, and what are you left with?

Thousands of witnesses and physical remains of the airplanes.


I repeat:



I'm pretty sure the implications of the above will ensure cognitive dissonance will carry the day.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 06:33 PM
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reply to post by Yankee451
 



I repeat:


And yet you never actually say anything.

So are the passenger, those persons cited as passengers by the MSM, real or creations?



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by Yankee451
 



I repeat:


And yet you never actually say anything.

So are the passenger, those persons cited as passengers by the MSM, real or creations?


I haven't forgotten the audience.

I'm talking to a guy who fabricated a sister as an eyewitness to planes which were clearly not there - you I won't convince.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by Yankee451

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by Yankee451
 



I repeat:


And yet you never actually say anything.

So are the passenger, those persons cited as passengers by the MSM, real or creations?


I haven't forgotten the audience.

I'm talking to a guy who fabricated a sister as an eyewitness to planes which were clearly not there - you I won't convince.


Well, me and billions of other people. Well, lets face it, you aren't going to convince anyone. Even on a conspiracy forum your "theory" is considered a hoax. Way to go!



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by hooper

Well, me and billions of other people. Well, lets face it, you aren't going to convince anyone. Even on a conspiracy forum your "theory" is considered a hoax. Way to go!





7. Bandwagon

The basic theme of the bandwagon is everyone else is buying the product, so you should too.

Most people prefer to the majority. There at least two reasons why being in the majority is better: (1) the majority is the winner in elections, and the winner has political power., and (2) most people like to be conformists, rather than vulnerable to criticism for being different.

Mentions of "fringe groups" of "out of the mainstream" are propaganda that denigrates positions held by a minority of people. This propaganda invites the audience to stay with the majority on the bandwagon, instead of deserting the majority.


www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by Yankee451
 


There are others that don't get on the bandwagon and are out on the fringes. You see them often on the streets in major cities. Often talking to themselves without the benefit of Bluetooth.

There's a fine line between being ahead of the curve and off the graph.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by Yankee451
 


There are others that don't get on the bandwagon and are out on the fringes. You see them often on the streets in major cities. Often talking to themselves without the benefit of Bluetooth.

There's a fine line between being ahead of the curve and off the graph.



Mentions of "Fringe Groups" or "out of the mainstream" are propaganda that denigrates positions held by a minority of people. This propaganda invites the audience to stay with the majority on the bandwagon, instead of deserting the majority.


www.rbs0.com...



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