Scottish Mummies pre-date Tutankhamun...

reply to post by Pimander

Always best on foot. See more that way. And a whole lot of other far-out stuff, too. I'd love to know some of the secrets buried beneath Wiltshire and Somerset. I've heard of churches, and even whole villages built on burial mounds, and no-one even knew it.

I think Versa can be forgiving, as long as it's interesting.

reply to post by Pimander


[regarding Glastonbury Tor]


At the base of the tor lies the chalice well - which has ancient legend, being one of the oldest and most sacred wells in England. The water is filtered along and through the Tor and said to be a gift from the earth.

The water is said to filter into two types of water, for curing various ailments and bringing good health. Plenty of Pagan, Druidic and early Christianity legends are associated with this well

Not least among these is that they represent the blood of Christ miraculously springing forth from the ground when Joseph of Arimathea buried or washed the cup used at the Last Supper.

And thus has associations with the holy grail, whether it be a material item, or possibly deeper as a symbol of the elements of earth and water.

Fascinating place - England really does have a rich and often hidden history.

reply to post by mr-lizard

Yes, the place is very important to Early Christianity and ancient and even modern Druidry.

Just below the Tor there is a "cafe" where lots of lovely weirdos (like me) have been known to hang out. There is a stream running through the "cafe" (I mean literally through where you can sit and have a cup of tea!) and apparently it is the same water that fills the well. I have sampled the water. Maybe that's why I'm so weird? If you haven't been then pay the place a visit. Some pretty awesome book shops, shops that sell very difficult to get herbs and bars in the village too (also full of strange folk).

I could go on for hours but maybe this isn't the place. I've never really let on on ATS about my interest in some of these things before. This thread has got me thinking about the guided tour plot again though. Hmmm...

Originally posted by Pimander
reply to post by NocturnalPhantom

 

Indeed there is an important dragon line passing through Glastonbury - which happens to be named after St. Michael.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/27bb2aaa8627.jpg[/atsimg]

That looks like the making of an interesting thread....

reply to post by Versa


I think that it would make a good thread. I'm looking around online and through my books now to see if I can find other prominent Dragon/Ley lines that intersect it. What I need to do right now though is get a few months of work. If I could save enough money by Spring, I'd get a bus to Yarmouth and walk the whole damn thing right down to lands end! If you look at a more detailed map of where it passes, it looks too much to be just a coincidence.

My years of roamin' however have taught me that a lot of the most fascinating sites are never included on maps or guidebooks, and if you didn't know it was there, you'd walk right past it. I have often found that following Ley Lines and courses of Roman roads will often take you through many interesting sites that even half the locals have never heard of. And for that matter, a lot of people talk about Glastonbury, but I wonder how many of them have ever bothered to go just next door to Street, which also goes back to Roman times?

The other thing to remember is that until a few hundred years ago, the levels were sea and marsh, and many Somerset hills were islands, so history there tends to be packed into relatively small areas. The old British name was Golad yr Haf (Summer Land); it was only in summer that most of it could be passed through. The former capital Somerton literally means Summer Farmstead. Anyway this is wildly off topic, sorry.

reply to post by NocturnalPhantom

If you draw a line on the map going directly north-south through Avebury you will find the line also passes through, among other things Stonehenge. If you continue the line North it passes through Arbor Low stone circle, Derbyshire. There is a lot to this and this thread is supposed to be about British mummies so I am going to stop there.

For inspiration regarding the sacred landscape. John Mitchell (RIP): The New View over Atlantis.

If there is real interest I could start a thread. I'm not sure whether there is much point on ATS - this isn't all hard facts but more of a mystery.

I've just read that the UK contains around 15% of the world's peatlands. If that is true, and people across N. Europe used peat bogs as a place of sacrifice, there could still be dozens of these mummified bodies and remains just below the surface waiting to be found. I cannot, however find any reference to mummified animals in Britain, which I find a little surprising.

reply to post by Pimander


Nice to know - Yes i've been there myself, although it wasn't a cafe when I visited - it was more of a shrine and was mainly run by a woman who practices Kabbalah and some volunteers.

I too have drank both types of the water - one of them is filtered red, which is probably because it is filtered through certain minerals. I have probably met a few of the people you were talking about as I spent a good few weeks in Glasto and the surrounding areas (in a yurt).

Very strange town Glastonbury, lots of wise, old folk and on the flip-side a few unhinged people too - but there's no denying it's a very beautiful place and full of mystery.

I also heard that behind the shrine (where all the water is flowing through - the stone room with the basins that pool the water) - I heard that beyond that room - there is a sealed off area which leads into a cave system deep within the tor. Apparently this has only been sealed off in the last few decades as prior to that some pilgrims apparently decided to venture into the caves and were never seen again.

Have you heard about this?

Originally posted by NocturnalPhantom
reply to post by Versa

 

My years of roamin' however have taught me that a lot of the most fascinating sites are never included on maps or guidebooks, and if you didn't know it was there, you'd walk right past it. I have often found that following Ley Lines and courses of Roman roads will often take you through many interesting sites that even half the locals have never heard of. And for that matter, a lot of people talk about Glastonbury, but I wonder how many of them have ever bothered to go just next door to Street, which also goes back to Roman times?

Yep - visited street too - also did you ever find Dragon Hill in the local area? There's a good view of the lands from there and that hill and the surrounding woods are supposed to be very old too.

Originally posted by NocturnalPhantom
reply to post by Pimander

 

Always best on foot. See more that way. And a whole lot of other far-out stuff, too. I'd love to know some of the secrets buried beneath Wiltshire and Somerset. I've heard of churches, and even whole villages built on burial mounds, and no-one even knew it.

I think Versa can be forgiving, as long as it's interesting.

edit on 23/8/11 by NocturnalPhantom because: (no reason given)

Going slightly off topic - but locally (in the north west of the UK) there's a small village called Crank, with surrounding Caverns and tunnels - there's a whole load of rumours about what actually lies under there. I know a few guys who have ventured down some of the caverns, but the more obvious entrances are blocked off. I've never ventured beyond a few caves, since the entrance I found was an immediate hole in the ground, under a hill and then there's a locked and barred gate - but apparently some people have been beyond and confirmed that, although most of the entrances are blocked off, there are some older holes which are not.

I certainly don't advise anyone going down without a trustworthy guide as many have not returned, but there are plenty of rumours surrounding Crank. Some say the tunnels and caverns stretch across Lancashire, whilst others speak of hollowed out rooms and a church and other strange things beneath the ground.

forum.davidicke.com...

www.sthelens-connect.net...

www.sthelens-connect.net...

en.wikipedia.org...

Although the wiki link mentions the quarry element of the caves, dismissing rumours of the deeper caverns, many older locals will tell you stories which contradict the official statements of the council. I guess without going down there it's speculation. But Crank is a spooky old place with some odd myths.

One of the famous Local Myths was the story of the children who went down Crank Caverns in the late 18th century. Four children decided to explore the sandstone caverns in the area and vanished. One child survived and told a terrifying tale about small old men with beards who killed his three friends and chased him. The petrified child stumbled over human bones in the caves and finally managed to scramble through an opening to the surface as a hand was grabbing at his ankle. The authorities were concerned because a number of people had gone missing in the area near the cave entrances. Two heavily armed soldiers descended into the caverns with torches and claimed that they not only found a heap of human bones, they also found the ruins of an ancient church of some unknown denomination. The interior of the church was lit by three large candles and grotesque gargoyles formed part of an altar. Throughout the exploration of the underground, the soldiers said they felt as if they were being watched, and also heard voices speaking in an unknown language. One report said that a child's head was found in a cave, along with evidence of cannibalism. After a second investigation, the caves either collapsed or gunpowder was used to seal them, and so the riddle of the underground church of Crank Caverns remains unsolved.

Originally posted by NocturnalPhantom
I cannot, however find any reference to mummified animals in Britain, which I find a little surprising.

edit on 24/8/11 by NocturnalPhantom because: (no reason given)

Funnily enough I brought that exact point up in Kandinskys thread about bog bodies... my post

reply to post by mr-lizard

The woods are where I normally sleep down there. Very strange atmosphere about them as well, but not in a bad sense. The views across the Levels from those hills are quite stunning, aren't they?

reply to post by mr-lizard


Now that really is interesting indeed. I've heard very similar stories from villages in Somerset and Dorset, except in quite a few of those cases, searches have shown that the caves and tunnels mentioned don't actually appear to exist! I think it may be folk memories of old pagan religious myths. But you've just cited one instance that appears to be genuine.

In some very old cemetaries and churchyards it is also said that certain ancient graves are not really graves at all, but concealed entrances to subterranean tunnels!

reply to post by Versa


So you did. Nothing solid here, I'm just guessing, but I wonder though if farm animals were eaten much. In medieval England, the average serf would never have tasted meat in his life. It was a luxury of the rich. Many animals were kept for milk (cows/sheep), or their wool (sheep), and may have been more valuable alive.

If pre-historic Britons were into ancestor worship, then animals may not have had such a sacred status as in, say, Egypt. Or if certain animals were sacred, killing them might have been taboo. If animals fell into the bog by accident, without treatment, they might perhaps have been less likely to be preserved, since peat is chemically very active.

reply to post by Versa

ETA it looks like a great thread! Ah... the mysteries of ATS, why one brilliant thread should fail while a two line comment about bunkum should soar is beyond me.

I think that this falls in the same category as any other type of entertainment. TV shows, music, even clothing. Many have been programmed to choose that which insults, offends or stagnates over quality, enlightenment and growth.

Maybe ATS would be improved if we used RATS to post our threads that we hope to generate real discussion, intellectual stimulation, intellectual growth, and debate. A place where stars and flags take a back seat to content. It would also make it easier to separate the wheat from the chaff.

OP, sorry for the dump. Back to topic.

The part about the reconstruction with parts from different people, puts me to mind of Frankenstein and the golem. Maybe this practice contributed to some of the old folklore.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
I also heard that behind the shrine (where all the water is flowing through - the stone room with the basins that pool the water) - I heard that beyond that room - there is a sealed off area which leads into a cave system deep within the tor. Apparently this has only been sealed off in the last few decades as prior to that some pilgrims apparently decided to venture into the caves and were never seen again.

Have you heard about this?

Yes, I have. The hollow hill myths are significant.

Just found this article.

www.independent.co.uk...

It seemed the Chinese Celts were found mummified too.

(yes I didn't know Chinese Celts existed either)

He looks like a Bronze Age European. In fact, he's every inch a Celt. Even his DNA says so.

But this is no early Celt from central Scotland. This is the mummified corpse of Cherchen Man, unearthed from the scorched sands of the Taklamakan Desert in the far-flung region of Xinjiang in western China

Now this bit is the most interesting.

At their peak, around 300BC, the influence of the Celts stretched from Ireland in the west to the south of Spain and across to Italy's Po Valley, and probably extended to parts of Poland and Ukraine and the central plain of Turkey in the east. These mummies seem to suggest, however, that the Celts penetrated well into central Asia, nearly making it as far as Tibet.

The Celts gradually infiltrated Britain between about 500 and 100BC. There was probably never anything like an organised Celtic invasion: they arrived at different times, and are considered a group of peoples loosely connected by similar language, religion, and cultural expression

Interesting no?

reply to post by mr-lizard


hiya yes the silk road mummies are very interesting

the Celts as a whole are a fascinating subject (not least on my part because I am a red head from Cornwall )

I did watch a really good documentary on these mummies and the story that was revealed was amazing! There seemed to be a lot of inter-racial mixing going on in that area at the time and probably a lot of information trading as well.

reply to post by Versa
reply to post by mr-lizard
It does seem pretty incredible that "Europeans" were in that part of the world so long ago.

Even older than the Cherchen find is that of the 4,000-year-old Loulan Beauty, who has long flowing fair hair and is one of a number of mummies discovered near the town of Loulan. One of these mummies was an eight-year-old child wrapped in a piece of patterned wool cloth, closed with bone pegs. The Loulan Beauty's features are Nordic. She was 45 when she died, and was buried with a basket of food for the next life, including domesticated wheat, combs and a feather. www.independent.co.uk...

If nothing else, this has to indicate the possibility that trade links were far wider than is generally thought.

reply to post by Versa


I no longer regard myself as a Celt, a Saxon or anything else with a surviving name, beyond a Briton. Too much DNA evidence and stuff suggests we are mostly the same people who were always here. There may have been a lot of invading foreign rulers and transmission of cultural memes, but our ancestors who built Silbury Hill, or laid out the field patterns still used in Cornwall and elsewhere would not have called themselves by any name that we now know.

Isn't it also interesting that some of the most advanced pre-historic "Britons" lived not just in the South, but in remote northern Scottish Islands. That is not something I would have generally expected, given the terrain, climate, and poor soils, etc.

I think our most distant Northern European ancestors were probably more closer to modern Finno-Ugric type populations than later "Indo-europeans" from the south of Europe.