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The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a myth

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posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Let me brutally assault your preterist theory with the facts. John describes a future event. He wrote Revelation 25-26 years after the destruction of the temple. John was imprisoned on Patmos during the reign of Domitian, and was released upon his death in 96 A.D.

Domitian wasn't even ruling Rome in 70 A.D. He began his rule in 81 A.D.
I was talking about the Messiah prophecy in Daniel, concerning the time determined for the attempt at reconstituting the old kingdom of Judea, after the Babylonian exile.
Revelation has to do with the final judgement of the whole world.
I would only be preterist in regards to Daniel, and not of NT prophecy.




posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

The "Land of God" cult. That's a new one. Is there any information on that cult somewhere?In Joel Christ calls Israel His land, and will judge the nations who divide it. Can you please provide Biblical reference where God vacated the Abrahamic land covenant? Please show us.
I'm not going to study cult theology on some web pages when I have it right here, with your posts. I am just naming your cult, myself. Whatever you say, is your cult's handbook, since you follow it to the letter.
How do you know Christ is speaking in Joel? Because it looks similar to what Jesus said?
It is two completely different things. Jesus was talking about people who did not behave well towards others, not about land boundaries.
edit on 25-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 10:40 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Let me brutally assault your preterist theory with the facts. John describes a future event. He wrote Revelation 25-26 years after the destruction of the temple. John was imprisoned on Patmos during the reign of Domitian, and was released upon his death in 96 A.D.

Domitian wasn't even ruling Rome in 70 A.D. He began his rule in 81 A.D.
I was talking about the Messiah prophecy in Daniel, concerning the time determined for the attempt at reconstituting the old kingdom of Judea, after the Babylonian exile.
Revelation has to do with the final judgement of the whole world.
I would only be preterist in regards to Daniel, and not of NT prophecy.


Quite a bit of Daniel 9 is yet to be fulfilled. Daniel's 70th week hasn't happened yet. We've been in the church dispensation since Christ died up till today. When the antichrist emerges and confirms a covenant the 70th week will commence. Halfway through the week the antichrist will sit in the temple and declare himself to be God, demand worship of himself and his image and kill anyone who refuses.



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

The "Land of God" cult. That's a new one. Is there any information on that cult somewhere?In Joel Christ calls Israel His land, and will judge the nations who divide it. Can you please provide Biblical reference where God vacated the Abrahamic land covenant? Please show us.
I'm not going to study cult theology on some web pages when I have it right here, with your posts. I am just naming your cult, myself. Whatever you say, is your cult's handbook, since you follow it to the letter.
How do you know Christ is speaking in Joel? Because it looks similar to what Jesus said?
It is two completely different things. Jesus was talking about people who did not behave well towards others, not about land boundaries.


Can you provide Biblical evidence that God cancelled His everlasting land covenant with Abraham and his natural seed? I need to know where this covenant was done away with. Also please show where God abandoned His land, His city. Also please show me how the 1,800+ OT prophecies concerning the return of Christ to Earth to rule and reign have been abandoned. Also please show where God changed His mind and decided to forever forsake His people and their promises.

Thanks in advance.



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 11:28 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Can you provide Biblical evidence that God cancelled His everlasting land covenant with Abraham and his natural seed?
Abraham was in a place.
This place was where Abraham lived.
The land sustained him.
God said you will have this life,
this sustenance,
this land,
forever.
This land could support only so much, to where he had to split off from Lot because it had reached its limit of how many it could support. Then Abraham was to have countless descendants, then what? Eventually it would require the whole world.
So the real promise was life.
Hebrews 9:15a And so he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the eternal inheritance he has promised,

The true fulfilment is life eternal and the whole world made new, after the resurrection of the saints who through adoption become inheritors.
So that promise was made better.
edit on 25-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 11:32 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


So you have no scriptures that support God nullifying His everlasting land covenant with Abraham's seed? I've posted scripture detailing that this was an everlasting covenant. You claim it's not, so where is the Biblical support that God abandoned His promise.

Try again, I don't want your opinions, show me where the Bible says this.



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 11:41 PM
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"Question: "What is the Abrahamic Covenant?"

Answer: A covenant is an agreement between two parties. There are two types of covenants: conditional and unconditional. A conditional or bilateral covenant is an agreement that is binding on both parties for its fulfillment. Both parties agree to fulfill certain conditions. If either party fails to meet their responsibilities, the covenant is broken and neither party has to fulfill the expectations of the covenant. An unconditional or unilateral covenant is an agreement between two parties, but only one of the two parties has to do something. Nothing is required of the other party.

The Abrahamic Covenant is an unconditional covenant. God made promises to Abraham that required nothing of Abraham. Genesis 15:18-21 describes a part of the Abrahamic Covenant, specifically dealing with the dimensions of the land God promised to Abraham and his descendants.


Abrahamic Covenant

Palestinian Covenant



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 01:20 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


I just posted on another one of your threads and was under the impression that you were spot on with truth. However, I believe you have wrongly divided the Word of truth regarding the "Gathering Together" of the Body of Christ. No, the English word "rapture" is not found in the King James, but then again neither is the word, "trinity" and many other words and phrases that are used to describe truth.

I believe you need to rethink this issue, and don't let any preconcieved beliefs or ideas sway you. We will be saved from the wrath to come. "Comfort one another with these words." (1 Thessalonians 4:18)

There would be no comfort or peace in knowing that we would have to go through the wrath to come. Jesus died for us to save us, not punish us. He took our punishment upon himself. God loves us and so does His Son.

"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2:15)



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 05:08 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Can you provide Biblical evidence that God cancelled His everlasting land covenant with Abraham and his natural seed?
You are a racist.



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 07:06 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Can you provide Biblical evidence that God cancelled His everlasting land covenant with Abraham and his natural seed?
You are a racist.


Not at all. Those with faith are Abraham's spiritual seed, but there was a land covenant made with his physical seed. Provide me with biblical support that God revoked His everlasting covenant with the offspring of Abraham.

Still waiting.




edit on 26-8-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by Cor Leonis
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


I just posted on another one of your threads and was under the impression that you were spot on with truth. However, I believe you have wrongly divided the Word of truth regarding the "Gathering Together" of the Body of Christ. No, the English word "rapture" is not found in the King James, but then again neither is the word, "trinity" and many other words and phrases that are used to describe truth.

I believe you need to rethink this issue, and don't let any preconcieved beliefs or ideas sway you. We will be saved from the wrath to come. "Comfort one another with these words." (1 Thessalonians 4:18)

There would be no comfort or peace in knowing that we would have to go through the wrath to come. Jesus died for us to save us, not punish us. He took our punishment upon himself. God loves us and so does His Son.

"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2:15)



I'm sorry, but i havent read anywhere in the bible in the new testament stating we will be spirited away before God's ultimate wrath. In fact in Revelation, it speaks of the martyrs the Son of perdition will kill. Well who are these martyrs if we are "raptured" away. It's not the jews. Revelation also speaks of locusts coming forth with the faces of men and stingers that will torment men for 5 months unless these people have the seal of God in their foreheads (meaning they believe in the savior Jesus Christ), so apparently christians are still around not just the jews and it isn't the muslims because they don't believe Jesus is the savior.

The comfort we are to have is that we will be resurrected when Christ returns. Your "rapture" isn't slotted to happen until the eve of Armageddon when those saints who died in Christ are ressurected followed by those christians who escaped martyrdom or were held in captivity and still survived.

Hebrews 9:27- it is appointed men once to die, and then the judgement

I believe those who are going to be raptured at the end will be those people who get saved during the tribulation, but they do not get to partake of the reward of new jerusalem.

I have studied Revelation for years, unlike many christians and preachers i am not afraid to stare that subject in the eye and not flinch. I have prayed to the Lord for the Holy Spirit's guidance on this matter and this is the answers He revealed to me after a week of prayer. The dream i was given was as a martyr.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 



I'm sorry, but i havent read anywhere in the bible in the new testament stating we will be spirited away before God's ultimate wrath.


How can you say that after reading Revelation? In chapter 1 Jesus says the "candlesticks" are the church. And in chapter 4 when Christ begins to open the seals of the scroll the candlesticks are in heaven watching and worshiping Him from the mezzanine. In fact, the ONLY church promised it will be sent through the Great Tribulation is the church at Thyatira which symbolizes the Medieval church. (Catholicism)

The Christians/saints that the beast will trample on and overcome are believers who will come to Christ after the rapture. I imagine after the rapture of millions of people there will be a mass movement of the unconverted to accept Christ. Including the Jews, that one event will fulfill the prophecy that an undesired nation will provoke the Jews to jealousy.

There is a difference between the church and saints. All church members are saints, but not all saints are church members. "Saints" was even a qualifying term used for people of God before the church was born at Pentecost.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 



I'm sorry, but i havent read anywhere in the bible in the new testament stating we will be spirited away before God's ultimate wrath.


How can you say that after reading Revelation? In chapter 1 Jesus says the "candlesticks" are the church. And in chapter 4 when Christ begins to open the seals of the scroll the candlesticks are in heaven watching and worshiping Him from the mezzanine. In fact, the ONLY church promised it will be sent through the Great Tribulation is the church at Thyatira which symbolizes the Medieval church. (Catholicism)

The Christians/saints that the beast will trample on and overcome are believers who will come to Christ after the rapture. I imagine after the rapture of millions of people there will be a mass movement of the unconverted to accept Christ. Including the Jews, that one event will fulfill the prophecy that an undesired nation will provoke the Jews to jealousy.

There is a difference between the church and saints. All church members are saints, but not all saints are church members. "Saints" was even a qualifying term used for people of God before the church was born at Pentecost.


I don't have all the answers, all i know is what ive read from my understanding and what the Holy Spirit reveals to me, specifically the dream of me and thousands of other christians being martyred. Does this mean i will be "left behind" I don't see why i would when i believe in Christ as much as any true believer and i try to do his work whenever i can. Do i hope i'm wrong about my dream? Most definately, it broke my heart to see all those men women and children being murdered in similar fashion to the Jews in WWII. From my dream the only logic i could come up with was that we won't be taken away until the return of Christ, those that are still alive that is. It wont hurt my feelings any if i'm wrong and i am taken away before all hell breaks loose!

I'm not saying i'm right or wrong, and i hope i'm wrong but there is no doubt in my mind anymore that were either in the time of sorrows or the very start of the Tribulation. We were told we would never know the hour or the day of the Lord's return, but that we would be given signs of the times and were getting those in spades.
edit on 8-9-2011 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


You could simply have had the dream of being martyred because it was on your mind. That's a possible answer. But going strictly from the text, in Revelation 1 Christ identifies the candlesticks as the churches, and when He begins to open the scrolls the candlesticks are in heaven. Plus the only church Christ told who will be cast into the Tribulation is the church at Thyatira, the Medieval church. Take the time to listen to two of the best prophecy teachers on the planet give their interpretation of the timing of the rapture and why. Especially Chuck Missler, he's very humble and says that his understanding doesn't mean he's "right". I love humble teachers like that.






edit on 8-9-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



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