The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a myth

The Rapture is a concept created in the late 1800's by John Darby. In fact nowhere in the bible is the word "rapture" written anywhere. There are 2 different versions of the rapture. One is a pre-tribulation rapture, the second is a post-tribulation rapture.

www.raptureforums.com...

However, if one reads the book of Revelations very closely, the Lord does not "Call up" the dead in Christ, those martyred in the tribulation and those whom died before until the eve of the battle at armageddon, in which those who survived the Beast's purge of christianity from the world will then be called up after the dead have risen.

Christians will NOT escape the tribulation, we will be rounded up and slaughtered, every man, woman and child who refuses to take the Beasts mark will be killed. Few will escape this purge, fleeing to the mountains and the wilds. In essence, the "rapture" will not happen till the very end. There will be no escape from Christ's wrath, we will only be spared from his penultimate punishment. Jesus came to save the first time, the second time he will come to destroy those who joined the armies of hell and fought against him.

The word 'Rapture' is not in the Bible,your right there,but explainto me why the church is not mentioned after chapter 4 to until later in the book?

Revelations that is

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

. . .the second time he will come to destroy those who joined the armies of hell and fought against him.

Do you have evidence for the actual person Jesus, as in the one in the Gospels, being this warrior doing battle and personally killing his enemy?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Dear lonewolf19792000,

I agree with you, no pre-tribulation rapture. Martyrs come first. There are web sites dedicated to the rapture, some even allow you to write letters in advance to say goodbye to people. Up until recently I used to tell new Christians to not focus on Revelations, it is difficult to understand and shouldn't be our focus. Our focus should be on being of service to one another. Peace.

I was taught that the concept of the rapture came from Jesus teaching about 2 being in the fields and 1 being called up and 1 being left behind and the other being something that Paul wrote. But, yeah, I agree that Revelation doesn't say anything about that.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
There will be no escape from Christ's wrath, we will only be spared from his penultimate punishment.

I believe the only judgment we will need to face is our own.
God, and thus, Jesus, loves us all, very very much, brother.
Why do you believe Jesus has any anger and rage?
You think he is surprised and 'let down' at what has taken place on this Earth?
Don't you think that, if one is to believe in God and Jesus, then they should also believe that everything is in Divine Order and unfolding in the most beautifully intrinsic way possible? How could we expect anything less from God than everything in his plan to unfold in nothing less than an awe-inspiring fashion?
The way you're talking makes it sound like God is nothing more than a silly, ego-filled human. Someone who get's angry over being ignored or being mocked.
But I tell you what, Brother, God does not think like a human, and He does not get jealous or feel the need to retaliate against less spiritually evolved beings.

He loves us. He loves you.
The only wrath we will face will be our own guilt that we feel once we truly understand the amount of time wasted, and pain felt, for every moment we did not live within our relationship with God.

So, whatever you do, don't be afraid!
God, and Jesus, want you to be happy. I promise.

You're okay.

Namaste.

reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck

Jesus teaching about 2 being in the fields and 1 being called up and 1 being left behind

LK 17: 33 Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left. "

LK 17:37 "Where, Lord?" they asked.
He replied, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."

Jesus modified the old formula, 1/3 killed, 1/3 taken captive, 1/3 left. So maybe 1/2 taken and slaughtered and 1/2 left or 1/2 taken captive and 1/2 slaughtered and left for the birds.

I don't see any taken away to safety in this verse.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


have fun in tribulation... Jesus is coming for me in the clouds at the rapture. I am being spared the wrath... pe what the Bible says.

Rev 3:10, Because you have kept my admonition to endure steadfastly, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is about to come on the whole world to test those who live on the earth.

The Full Story of the Rapture being in printed text goes as follows....

A Scottish Girl had "visions of the end of days/Rapture"

She told a clever man about Her visions...

He seen it as a way to print books,

He printed a variation of the bible that had two form of text in it, one bible stories, one the passages of the girls Rapture visions...

through time the stories got murky and it was hard to tell what was original Bible and what was "new bible"

Alot of what is now thought to be the end of times was a girl in Scotlands dreams and never written in the actual bible ever (untill much more recent times)

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Also, if people read that book carefully, they would know that it's Revelation, not Revelations. Just saying......not trying to derail, but just get it right!

Opposing viewpoint here.

The word rapture isn't in the bible simply because at the time it was a new concept. There wasn't a word for it at the time. However the concept is there if you look at the prophesies and parables. To start with.

1 Thessalonians: Chapter 4

5 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Then Matthew 24.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And
Revelation 7. After the opening of the 6th seal.
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

From those prophesies I would say that the rapture is a predicted event by Paul and Jesus Christ and John. And Paul is predicting the event before John did in Revelation.

And how did all those people wind up in heaven anyway?

Pre-tribulation Rapture is a perversion of the Word for political purposes. It is a distortion of the Gospel and quite simply it is an abomination. It has been used to bend Christianity to Political Zionism's purposes. Satan is the prince of this world and Christ's kingdom is not of this world!

For example:

World Zionist leaders initiated a program to change America and its religious orientation. One of the tools used to accomplish this goal was an obscure and malleable Civil War veteran named Cyrus I. Schofield. A much larger tool was a venerable, world respected European book publisher--The Oxford University Press.

The scheme was to alter the Christian view of Zionism by creating and promoting a pro-Zionist subculture within Christianity. Scofield's role was to re-write the King James Version of the Bible by inserting Zionist-friendly notes in the margins, between verses and chapters, and on the bottoms of the pages. The Oxford University Press used Scofield, a pastor by then, as the Editor, probably because it needed such as man for a front. The revised bible was called the Scofield Reference Bible, and with limitless advertising and promotion, it became a best-selling "bible" in America and has remained so for 90 years.

The Scofield Reference Bible was not to be just another translation, subverting minor passages a little at a time. No, Scofield produced a revolutionary book that radically changed the context of the King James Version. It was designed to create a subculture around a new worship icon, the modern State of Israel, a state that did not yet exist, but which was already on the drawing boards of the committed, well-funded authors of World Zionism.

Source:
www.rense.com...

I must agree with you on this.
The whole point of the book Revelation is to encourage the Church during a time of persecution, to inspire them to "patient endurance". If the church disappears from the world before the persecution, the book loses its point.
As for those who say "the church is not seen after ch4"- Yes, it is. The sealing in ch7, for a start. Everything that happens afterwards is a warning to the pre-tribulation church about what the tribulation will bring them (and what God will do about it).

reply to post by pthena


I'm just telling you the interpretation that I was taught. And that's the bad thing about the Bible...there's about a billion ways to interpret it. Personally, I think most of it is a bunch of nonsense, especially Revelation.

This reminds me of the story I once read about how Christians in China supposedly had much the same view of the rapture as many Americans do today, that they'd be taken before the persecution.

Of course, history tells us that they weren't. Not trying to be a troll, because I AM a believer, but I think the story illustrates a good point.

Originally posted by daikaiju
The word 'Rapture' is not in the Bible,your right there,but explainto me why the church is not mentioned after chapter 4 to until later in the book?

Revelations that is

edit on 21/8/2011 by daikaiju because: (no reason given)

Well from what i read, when Christ opens the 5th seal, the Beast is going to round us up and slaughter us if we refuse his mark. From that point we become the martyrs who die for Christ and we will be the saints that return along with all those who died before us to make war on the armies of hell at the battle of armageddon (megiddo).

Matt. 24:29 " immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days" then in verse 31 He sends His messengers (some call angels) and the trumpet sounds and the elect are gathered from the earth.

Also, Paul refers to what will happen "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP"

I'm just saying. I agree with the OP pre-trib rapture is a lie meant to get churchgoers to think they'll all be taken before things get too bad.

Also read carefully the verses in Matthew about one being taken and the other left...the ones being taken are the ones being killed in the wrath/judgement.

Also, Jesus (not His real name BTW) taught to obey the commandments.

I reccomend reading scripture from Gen to Malachi first, then the four Gospels. Pauls words are twisted to make people believe they don't have to obey the commandments in the law given to Moses.

Sorry, getting OT.

OP is correct. Scripture is correct. it is the false teachers who are wrong. Ask for knowledge og the truth from our Heavenly Father, read HIs Word with the intent to obey what you learn to do. He will reveal more truth to you as He tests you to see if you are sincere.

Originally posted by STEADFast
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

have fun in tribulation... Jesus is coming for me in the clouds at the rapture. I am being spared the wrath... pe what the Bible says.

Think of it from a logical, military perspective. Christians are supposed to be the foot soldiers of Christ, it makes no sense for a general to pull his army out before the battle has even started. Christians will still be witnessing up till about the opening of the 5th seal. Point to me where in Revelation it says anything about us being spirited away at the beginning. It's not going to happen and you're going to be sorely disappointed when it doesn't. Christians and jews will only be spared God's ultimate wrath, but not what comes before, those that are still left alive that have not already been martyred.