The tragedy of Ruby Ridge: It was 19 years ago today...

reply to post by wasco2


People do what they have to do; I'm not in the business of judging LEOs or anyone else, really. And needless death should be mourned.

Even if you can't drum up much sympathy for this particular case, the fact that the Feds lost one of their own on this filth adds to the tragedic idiocy of the whole thing.

Originally posted by silent thunder
Thank you for your replies, people. I'm glad to see people still remember this and have opinions about it.

It is also important to express my sympathy for the death of Deputy US Marshal W.F. Degan. He didn't have to die there, either. Nobody should have died there.

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Sorry no sympathy here, unidentified trespassers kill Sammy's dog on his own property he returns fire and attempts to get the hell out of there and is shot in the back by these cowardly thugs. Degan got what he deserved to bad the rest of the thugs who harmed this family did not get what they all deserved!

I could not watch past 17 minutes. I never looked into this that deeply, they killed the dog? I'm done.

Infamous Sniper Lon Horiuchi was ALSO at WACO! He later became a representative of a famous Tactical Rifle Maker who's name I REFUSE to mention. Upon learning of this jacka**es hiring of Horiuchi, their products were not in as much demand as before from what I have heard! A large sum of upfront money was paid to him to lend his name to the products!

Zindo
Oh hell everybody should know who is paying this thug!

Damned FOOL!!!

reply to post by ZindoDoone


I'm still neither very informed to make an opinion nor able to find that much info so easily on either side. Mind quickly reviewing them for me? As far as I can tell it was just a situation at Waco where they defended themselves, but went too far and became quite barbaric.

Originally posted by OldCorp
Randy Weaver had a federal warrant out for his arrest because he sold a sawed-off shotgun to an undercover agent, so the government had every right to arrest him and hold him accountable. Of course any agent with half a brain, knowing that Weaver was a survivalist and would normally have easy access to weapons, would have tried to arrest him when he was away from home; but that's just stupidity, nothing criminal on the part of the government yet.

My problem begins when the FBI sniper that was part of the assault force shot Vicky Weaver in the face when all she was doing was holding the door open with one hand, while cradling her infant in the other. She had no weapon and she did not pose any type of threat to the agents. Why then was she murdered in cold blood?

There was an inquiry into the shooting later. Randy Weaver was awarded one million dollars in compensation for the murder of his wife and son, but the story doesn't end there... The FBI sniper? Was he punished even though the government admitted wrongdoing when they paid Randy Weaver? Nope, he was promoted; and his next high profile assignment was in the sleepy Texas town of Waco.

Things that make you go hmmmm.

Thanks you for the post.
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I look at Ruby Ridge and Waco the same way. 2 federal agencies looking to justify their budgets and authority,look at the timing it was appropriations time and they wanted to be on some infotainment show of the time like Top Cops and one of the other Cops inspired shows that were out at the time.They were all looking to become heroes but due to their sheer stupidity and arrogance people died.

Originally posted by OldCorp
Randy Weaver had a federal warrant out for his arrest because he sold a sawed-off shotgun to an undercover agent, so the government had every right to arrest him and hold him accountable. Of course any agent with half a brain, knowing that Weaver was a survivalist and would normally have easy access to weapons, would have tried to arrest him when he was away from home; but that's just stupidity, nothing criminal on the part of the government yet.

I have never yet seen a case of American tyranny, which did not have its' apologists.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Government quislings (not that I'm accusing you of being one, necessarily) can say whatever they like; that is the text of the second amendment. There is nothing there about licensing, or any other authoritarian form of gun control whatsoever.

I'm aware that many Americans appear to have minimal interest in maintaining their freedom, or even to believe that it is actually an undesirable thing. They can rest assured; their government has been, and will be, more than happy to entirely relieve them of it.

reply to post by Gorman91


Waco videos

Here's a few dozen to peruse to answer your question!

Zindo

reply to post by ZindoDoone


Just looks like crazies shooting out because they were isolationists. Compounds were never good ideas. People, in herds, become retarded animals of war and death.

reply to post by Gorman91


This statement is very telling on the white washing of Horiuchi's second screw up at Waco. He not only was the first one to shoot at Ruby Ridge but was probably the one that started ALL the shooting at Waco"

"On 13 September 1993, Charles Riley, a fellow FBI sniper deployed during the Waco Siege claimed that he had heard Horiuchi shooting from Sierra 1, an F.B.I.-held house in front of the compound holding eight snipers, including Horiuchi and Christopher Curran on 19 April 1993. Riley later retracted his statement, saying that he had been misquoted, and that he had only heard snipers at Sierra 1 announce that shots had been fired by Branch Davidians.

Three of the twelve expended .308 Winchester shell casings that the Texas Rangers reported finding in the house were at Horiuchi's position. However, officials maintain that they could have been left behind from the earlier use of the house by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives snipers on February 28, 1993, and that it would be "nearly impossible" to match them to Horiuchi's rifle, as it had probably been re-barreled since that time."

I saw the Riley news conference where he recanted his story. Whats so unnerving about it is that the FBI monitors and records ALL radio traffic on their Radio net during encounters. Not only was his rifle mysteriously re-barreled but he tapes of the Waco incursion were mysteriously lost or erased before the investigation. If that ain't a coverup of a rouge agents activities I will be quite surprised!
Zindo

reply to post by ZindoDoone


To be honest, even if he was at at fault, even if he did start it, they were a group of radicals cooped up in a house, and armed if I'm not mistaken? It's all well and good to have yourself armed. It's not all well and good to have a whole cult following you while you are armed. They followed some guy who claimed to be a prophet, and if I were to speak of it in my religious mind, all I can say is that the only fruits to judge them by are roasted corpses and death and destruction.

Normal people don't shoot for no reason. And we simply cannot know why he would shoot first. Maybe he walked into a child prostitution ring. I would fire and kill the lot of them in my blood anger, I can tell you. Or perhaps someone came at him without a gun. Things we can never know.

What I can say in faith is that if they were truly good people, this would not happen, and to speak of it in the secular, they were a cult. An armed cult awaiting their Apocalypse. That's rarely a good thing.

In any case, I know of no white flag nor attempt to surrender. They burned fighting for bad faith. They were mislead. indoctrinated.

reply to post by Gorman91


Radicals to whom??? Not once was anything of the charges proven in ANY court of law.! These 'Radicals' may have had a different idea of a belief system but the initial arrest of their leader could have been done for two weeks preceding the attack by the Feds! He walked or rode his bike to town at least three days a week and it was known to the FeeBeees and they instead chose an all out assault on a compound that they knew would cause the most problems and the biggest bang for 'THEIR' buck!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THE COMPLETE DEVASTATION CAUSED BY THE FEDS!!
Zindo

reply to post by ZindoDoone


Isn't that what they do, however, for pretty much every single drug lord/dealer/terrorist, etc etc? Usually they know he vacations at this place, or he rides his bike to that place. Yet they always opp for rush and boom tactics.

Is it wrong?

I don't know.


I'd like some sources to what you're saying in terms of proof in court and the lot.

I still find the fact that some 40 kids were in one compound incredibly disturbing. Be it indoctrination, sex slavery, or just plain vacationing. It smells funny.

Ruby Ridge is arguably the US government's most successful false flag event.

It's important to remember one thing: nobody died at Ruby Ridge. Everything was staged using crisis actors. The guy we know today as 'Randy Weaver' never actually existed, and neither did his family. They were all actors.

Deputy US Marshal W. F. Degan followed a carefully prepared script in which his death was faked. After Ruby Ridge he was given a new name and now lives under a the witness protection program.

The purpose of Ruby Ridge was to flush out survivalists, preppers, militia groups, etc. Basically anyone who might cause a potential threat to the US government. When the news of the 'killings' became public, every anti-government patriot with a gun to his name screamed and hollered at the authorities until his lungs were raw.

The government quietly took notes, recorded names and addresses, and filed them all way for future reference. It was a brilliant plan.