You might not have the right to blame him for what he inherited
but you can blame him for playing into the same cards and making the siutation worse
he has the spotlight on him to make a differnce
but he goes the opposite way
he is as guility as if he caused what he inherited
For Christ's sake, stop blaming Obama for everything under the sun!, page 1
privacy
Topic started on 21-8-2011 @ 07:48 PM by alexbassguy
Hello. I rarely post on this site anymore, because it seems to have mostly descended into nothing but partisan bickering and people who haven't the
slightest clue what they're talking about throwing around facts and theories they don't understand. However, I still lurk, following the handful of
members who actually make a meaningful contribution around here. No offense to you all, but before the giant membership boom, this site was a much
more organized, friendly place to discuss a wide variety of topics. But no matter. I digress.
One thing I can no longer stand is the amount of Obama bashing that goes on here, and everywhere else for that matter. I am by no means some huge fan of Obama. "Yes we can!" is not my mantra. I am, in fact, a huge Ron Paul supporter (as I'm sure a ton of you are.) I'm just entirely sick of this one man being blamed for the sordid state of our nation.
I've read more smear posts and threads regarding Obama's "out-of-control spending" than I can shake a stick at. Every time, I laugh to myself, because anyone who understands a shred of political theory understands two very, very basic things -
1. It's not just the President - it's his cabinet, the House, the Senate, the Supreme Court, the Fed, and all other government (and, these days, some non-government) entities as well.
2. Want to see the effects of a bill, law or economic action? Wait at least four years for the full trickle-down to run its course.
Want someone to blame? How about this one guy (I don't know if anyone remembers him... ya'll don't seem to, at least) named GEORGE W. BUSH? Between him, his cabinet, and Congress over the past ten years - there's your responsible parties. Let me illustrate this with a simple graphic - one I think has been shown around here a few times before -
Before anyone says 'well of course it's lower, Obama's been in office for only three years! If you follow that out... blah blah blah', note that this is a LIBERAL projection of his spending habits OVER A HYPOTHETICAL EIGHT-YEAR TERM. Also, you can't place any of the war monies on Obama's head, no matter how hard you try - he didn't start them, and he can't very well just suddenly drop two military engagements, can he? Bush started it, Bush's cabinet and Congress created the tax loopholes to cause the lending crises, Bush's cronies were the ones profiting from 9/11. When Clinton left office in '00, our economy was in fantastic shape - see below.
This amazing economic standing carried over well into Bush's second term, which is when things really started to fall hard. That's why we were able to start not one, but two wars as quickly and efficiently as we did - at the time, we didn't even have a national debt. It is Bush's decisions and his cabinet's influence we are now seeing. If the corporate tax loopholes hadn't been created in the first place, we wouldn't have had the bailouts. If responsible lending laws had been enforced, we wouldn't have had the sub-prime mortgage crisis, and therefore the absurd amount of home foreclosures we see now.
And Obamacare really shouldn't even be called so - sure, it was his idea initially. Then Congress spent upwards of a year ******* it into oblivion, and out the other end came 2400 pages of unreadable, unenforceable silliness. Anyone who reams Obamacare clearly didn't do a lot of research. Indeed, it does 'require' you (though not through threat of legal action) to have coverage. It also (tries, not at all saying it's perfect or even halfway decent) to make this coverage infinitely more affordable and fair to those who don't already have it. And while this may seem like socialism, let's consider - public education? SOCIALISM. right to vote? SOCIALISM. women's suffrage? SOCIALISM. public roads? SOCIALISM. public transportation? SOCIALISM. police? SOCIALISM (but screw them anyways). All of these things would be considered socialist by very definition, and I don't see many threads decrying the fascist horrors of your local bus stop (the police are a different story, but no matter). And last I checked, when you step out your door without heath insurance, have fun being $400,000 in debt for the rest of your life because that drunk driver destroyed both of your legs.
No, Obama isn't great. I don't plan on voting for him, as long as RP gets the GOP ticket. But Jon Stewart said it best: "Obama's slogan has been updated from 'Yes we can!' to 'I thought we could, but everyone else is an a*****e!" I feel everyone is forgetting that the prez, as one man, has very limited capabilities. So next time you want to decry someone for ruining our nation, remember - just because we have a leader, doesn't mean he actually leads. Just look at the recent mess over the debt ceiling - Obama put forward a PERFECTLY REASONABLE solution, raise the debt ceiling accompanied by just over $2 trillion in spending cuts (and oh yeah, just a FEW select tax increases, here and there, to help grease the wheels...). But NOPE. Congressional Republicans swore to NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER raise taxes EVER. So we came 48 hours away from destroying the world economy - for what? Petty rivalry? This was actually the main reason S&P downgraded our credit rating - not because we almost defaulted, but because the threat of default was tossed around as a political bargaining chip. Any rational person looking at that should be far more afraid of 535 slimy, corrupt bastards than one measly President, even if he isn't the best we've had. Again, I am not some blind Obama-loving Democrat seduced by the 'hope-and-change' rhetoric. He's certainly dodged questions, evaded answers, and generally been a politician. But (besides RP) who hasn't?
Now, I'm not like most self-professed politicos on here - my mind can be changed. And if any of my points here are incorrect, please - POLITELY - correct me, with sources. I have read considerable amounts on these topics, and this is my best understanding of the situation. If you can somehow prove to me - with irrefutable sources and math - that Obama has single-handedly done anything to cause the current situation, please do. I have plenty of evidence supporting my beliefs stated here. However, please don't just accuse me of being stupid and/or wrong with no basis, as I will not respond. I am intending this to let out my personal opinion, as well as hopefully spark some constructive conversation as to what Obama, Bush and Congress may or may not have done since the year 2000 to get us to the point we're at now. Ultimately, I truly hope it comes down to Ron Paul vs Obama in 2012 - to me, that's a 'fantastic' vs 'at least decent', which is better than anything we've seen in a long, long time.
Thoughts?
One thing I can no longer stand is the amount of Obama bashing that goes on here, and everywhere else for that matter. I am by no means some huge fan of Obama. "Yes we can!" is not my mantra. I am, in fact, a huge Ron Paul supporter (as I'm sure a ton of you are.) I'm just entirely sick of this one man being blamed for the sordid state of our nation.
I've read more smear posts and threads regarding Obama's "out-of-control spending" than I can shake a stick at. Every time, I laugh to myself, because anyone who understands a shred of political theory understands two very, very basic things -
1. It's not just the President - it's his cabinet, the House, the Senate, the Supreme Court, the Fed, and all other government (and, these days, some non-government) entities as well.
2. Want to see the effects of a bill, law or economic action? Wait at least four years for the full trickle-down to run its course.
Want someone to blame? How about this one guy (I don't know if anyone remembers him... ya'll don't seem to, at least) named GEORGE W. BUSH? Between him, his cabinet, and Congress over the past ten years - there's your responsible parties. Let me illustrate this with a simple graphic - one I think has been shown around here a few times before -
Before anyone says 'well of course it's lower, Obama's been in office for only three years! If you follow that out... blah blah blah', note that this is a LIBERAL projection of his spending habits OVER A HYPOTHETICAL EIGHT-YEAR TERM. Also, you can't place any of the war monies on Obama's head, no matter how hard you try - he didn't start them, and he can't very well just suddenly drop two military engagements, can he? Bush started it, Bush's cabinet and Congress created the tax loopholes to cause the lending crises, Bush's cronies were the ones profiting from 9/11. When Clinton left office in '00, our economy was in fantastic shape - see below.
This amazing economic standing carried over well into Bush's second term, which is when things really started to fall hard. That's why we were able to start not one, but two wars as quickly and efficiently as we did - at the time, we didn't even have a national debt. It is Bush's decisions and his cabinet's influence we are now seeing. If the corporate tax loopholes hadn't been created in the first place, we wouldn't have had the bailouts. If responsible lending laws had been enforced, we wouldn't have had the sub-prime mortgage crisis, and therefore the absurd amount of home foreclosures we see now.
And Obamacare really shouldn't even be called so - sure, it was his idea initially. Then Congress spent upwards of a year ******* it into oblivion, and out the other end came 2400 pages of unreadable, unenforceable silliness. Anyone who reams Obamacare clearly didn't do a lot of research. Indeed, it does 'require' you (though not through threat of legal action) to have coverage. It also (tries, not at all saying it's perfect or even halfway decent) to make this coverage infinitely more affordable and fair to those who don't already have it. And while this may seem like socialism, let's consider - public education? SOCIALISM. right to vote? SOCIALISM. women's suffrage? SOCIALISM. public roads? SOCIALISM. public transportation? SOCIALISM. police? SOCIALISM (but screw them anyways). All of these things would be considered socialist by very definition, and I don't see many threads decrying the fascist horrors of your local bus stop (the police are a different story, but no matter). And last I checked, when you step out your door without heath insurance, have fun being $400,000 in debt for the rest of your life because that drunk driver destroyed both of your legs.
No, Obama isn't great. I don't plan on voting for him, as long as RP gets the GOP ticket. But Jon Stewart said it best: "Obama's slogan has been updated from 'Yes we can!' to 'I thought we could, but everyone else is an a*****e!" I feel everyone is forgetting that the prez, as one man, has very limited capabilities. So next time you want to decry someone for ruining our nation, remember - just because we have a leader, doesn't mean he actually leads. Just look at the recent mess over the debt ceiling - Obama put forward a PERFECTLY REASONABLE solution, raise the debt ceiling accompanied by just over $2 trillion in spending cuts (and oh yeah, just a FEW select tax increases, here and there, to help grease the wheels...). But NOPE. Congressional Republicans swore to NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER raise taxes EVER. So we came 48 hours away from destroying the world economy - for what? Petty rivalry? This was actually the main reason S&P downgraded our credit rating - not because we almost defaulted, but because the threat of default was tossed around as a political bargaining chip. Any rational person looking at that should be far more afraid of 535 slimy, corrupt bastards than one measly President, even if he isn't the best we've had. Again, I am not some blind Obama-loving Democrat seduced by the 'hope-and-change' rhetoric. He's certainly dodged questions, evaded answers, and generally been a politician. But (besides RP) who hasn't?
Now, I'm not like most self-professed politicos on here - my mind can be changed. And if any of my points here are incorrect, please - POLITELY - correct me, with sources. I have read considerable amounts on these topics, and this is my best understanding of the situation. If you can somehow prove to me - with irrefutable sources and math - that Obama has single-handedly done anything to cause the current situation, please do. I have plenty of evidence supporting my beliefs stated here. However, please don't just accuse me of being stupid and/or wrong with no basis, as I will not respond. I am intending this to let out my personal opinion, as well as hopefully spark some constructive conversation as to what Obama, Bush and Congress may or may not have done since the year 2000 to get us to the point we're at now. Ultimately, I truly hope it comes down to Ron Paul vs Obama in 2012 - to me, that's a 'fantastic' vs 'at least decent', which is better than anything we've seen in a long, long time.
Thoughts?
We can blame the last sessions of congress. When was the last time a budget was passed? { I live in NY and I've seen
the first on time state budget in YEARS} That ball was dropped back when Nancy Pelosi was majority leader. Since the "obamacare" was passed in the
period of time that I mentioned I will not accept the "republican filibuster" argument. A budget would be way easier to negotiate than a health
care bill. I also think that your assertion that we only need to go back four years is wrong, we may need to back further. A lot of affects are
delayed for years after the implementation. Elected officials come and go but some appointees linger on for decades! Obama may not be deserving of
all the blame but he does deserve some of it. 
reply posted on 21-8-2011 @ 08:17 PM by Q:1984A:1776
reply to post by alexbassguy
REALLY? Stop expecting the most responsibility from the man with the most power, and indeed, the most accountability, in the world?
I'm sorry, but when you have the most important job on the planet, and you do the worst job in history (I'd say he's surpassed even Wubya now) you deserve nothing but ridicule and scorn in the very least. I'd say he needs to be tried for treason just like his predecessor.
REALLY? Stop expecting the most responsibility from the man with the most power, and indeed, the most accountability, in the world?
I'm sorry, but when you have the most important job on the planet, and you do the worst job in history (I'd say he's surpassed even Wubya now) you deserve nothing but ridicule and scorn in the very least. I'd say he needs to be tried for treason just like his predecessor.
reply posted on 21-8-2011 @ 08:19 PM by Flatfish
reply to post by alexbassguy
S&F, I agree with you wholeheartedly except for the fact that I don't believe that Ron Paul can secure the GOP nomination and I probably wouldn't vote for him anyway.
As much as I agree with many of his viewpoints, I just can't bring myself to vote for someone who admittedly, would not have voted in favor of the Civil Rights Act and who believes that private businesses should be allowed to discriminate. I also heard him say that he believes that Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are all unconstitutional and I can't go there either. Some of his views are just a little too extreme for me.
So I'll probably vote to re-elect Obama and to un-elect some of the obstructionist nut jobs in congress.
Anyway, good luck getting them to stop blaming Obama for all their ills. You do know that "Blaming" is their speciality don't you? I heard a comedian the other day who suggested that they adopt a new campaign slogan of; "Yes We Hate."
S&F, I agree with you wholeheartedly except for the fact that I don't believe that Ron Paul can secure the GOP nomination and I probably wouldn't vote for him anyway.
As much as I agree with many of his viewpoints, I just can't bring myself to vote for someone who admittedly, would not have voted in favor of the Civil Rights Act and who believes that private businesses should be allowed to discriminate. I also heard him say that he believes that Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are all unconstitutional and I can't go there either. Some of his views are just a little too extreme for me.
So I'll probably vote to re-elect Obama and to un-elect some of the obstructionist nut jobs in congress.
Anyway, good luck getting them to stop blaming Obama for all their ills. You do know that "Blaming" is their speciality don't you? I heard a comedian the other day who suggested that they adopt a new campaign slogan of; "Yes We Hate."
reply posted on 21-8-2011 @ 08:21 PM by hangedman13
reply to post by Q:1984A:1776
I got say the POTUS is not all powerful
If we want to look at this on a larger scale, we could actually say this is the fault of the two party
system. Negotiations have not been a hallmark of the past few years! "Yes we will jam healthcare down everybodies throats, but you gotta compromise
with us when we can't get what we want"!
I got say the POTUS is not all powerful
If we want to look at this on a larger scale, we could actually say this is the fault of the two party
system. Negotiations have not been a hallmark of the past few years! "Yes we will jam healthcare down everybodies throats, but you gotta compromise
with us when we can't get what we want"!
Exclusive - Obama\'s Literary Agent in 1991 Booklet: \'Born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Haw
Posted 11 days ago with 242 member flags
Posted 11 days ago with 242 member flags
Ron Paul is NOT dropping out, the Mainstream Media is LYING.
Posted 14 days ago with 111 member flags
Posted 14 days ago with 111 member flags
CNN Asks Ron Paul To Drop Out & Endorse Romney Despite His Chances To Win
Posted 18 days ago with 70 member flags
Posted 18 days ago with 70 member flags
Fox News Analyst: First American to shoot down drone will be a hero
Posted 13 days ago with 68 member flags
Posted 13 days ago with 68 member flags
Newest topics, updated in real-time:
Newest topics getting flags, in real-time:
Quantum Gravity Model "Loads" "Programs" from NON-PHYSICAL DIMENSION with INVERTED PENTAGRAMS!
Science & Technology: 17 hours ago, 37 flags
Science & Technology: 17 hours ago, 37 flags
Was Jesus a Greek-Phoenician Philosopher? A hidden book, revealed…
Conspiracies in Religions: 13 hours ago, 20 flags
Conspiracies in Religions: 13 hours ago, 20 flags
German elite are discussing various scenarios involving the use of force to ensure control over Gree
Global Meltdown: 12 hours ago, 13 flags
Global Meltdown: 12 hours ago, 13 flags
Anyone in Moscow now.. 16:15 GMT Grey ball above building SKY News.
Aliens and UFOs: 7 hours ago, 12 flags
Aliens and UFOs: 7 hours ago, 12 flags
Newest topics getting replies, in real-time:
German elite are discussing various scenarios involving the use of force to ensure control over Gree
Global Meltdown: 12 hours ago, 62 replies
Global Meltdown: 12 hours ago, 62 replies
How long would a footprint stay visible on the surface of the moon?
Space Exploration: 13 hours ago, 54 replies
Space Exploration: 13 hours ago, 54 replies
The Above Top Secret Web sites are a
wholly owned social content community of
The Above Network, LLC.
This content community relies on
user-generated content from our member contributors.
The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership
who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides
a collaborative venue for free expression.
ATS Server: www3.theabovenetwork.com
Header data: 0.002 seconds
Page processed in: 0.246 seconds
wholly owned social content community of
The Above Network, LLC.
This content community relies on
user-generated content from our member contributors.
The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership
who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides
a collaborative venue for free expression.
ATS Server: www3.theabovenetwork.com
Header data: 0.002 seconds
Page processed in: 0.246 seconds
