Libyan Rebels Advance Into Central Tripoli !!

Originally posted by ipsedixit
reply to post by Eurisko2012

 

It is definitely an interesting juncture. I think uppermost on NATO's agenda will be the arrest of Gaddafi. Taking out the kingpin will cut through many difficulties.

For me the question is whether or not there is hardened support for Gaddafi. The sort of resilience that the Afghans bring to circumstances like this. Even if a Libyan equalled one tenth of an Afghan or a Vietnamese, in terms of tenacity and "mind your own business-ness", NATO might have it's hands full for a long time.

edit on 24-8-2011 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)

I don't think taking Qaddafi out will make any difference, the Libyans are fighting for two reasons against NATO, 1. to protect the revolutionary leader Qaddafi, 2. to protect their Jamahariya government, which is regarded as direct democracy, and many argue that it is much more efficient and healthy than periodic dictatorship Democracy of the West.

That being said, killing Qaddafi won't change anything, people are resisting against foreign adversaries trying to take over the country. People are resisting CIA militia named Haftari militia, and the Monarch loyalists, the same puppet Monarchy which was toppled by the green revolution. Notice the flags these puppet militias are holding are the same flag as the Monarchy. This isn't a coincidence, NATO has made it clear, it wants its puppet regime back, Democracy and saving civilian lives is just an excuse.

reply to post by confreak


I agree with what you are saying with the exception of the importance of Gaddafi. He appears to have built a classic cult of personality around himself. His arrest or death is a top priority for NATO.

I do think the NTC will have a tough time ahead, though, no matter what their strategy might be.

next phase, US sends Nato ground troops?

reply to post by ignant


I think that is inevitable. I don't think the NTC will be able to supply security for the oil facilities. NATO airstrikes can't become a way of daily life in Libya and the rebels are not going to get their act together for a while.

Libya will probably wind up like Afghanistan or Iraq, with a US puppet in charge and looking over his shoulder all the time, waiting to be deposed.

reply to post by ipsedixit


I think you don't know why he is loved by his people, therefore lead to this irrational conclusion that he himself has created this love towards himself. That is weird don't you think?

He is loved:
1. Because he was the leader of the Green Revolution, the same revolution which toppled the puppet Monarchy.
2. Because he is the master mind of the Jamahariya government, the same government which allowed Libyans to directly participate in the governmental decision making. Since people participated directly, they chose their own future, from free health care, to free cars, free homes, free education, free land, free farms etc..

Qaddafi is loved the same reason why Nelson Mandela is loved by South Africans, he is the revolutionary leader and a visionary. Those who hate him are the Monarchs, and CIA organized militia, hence the Haftari militia (do research and you will see what I mean).

The Monarch loyalists hating Qaddafi, is like the Apartheid loyalists hating Mandela. In the end, Qaddafi doesn't control Libya, just like Mandela doesn't control South Africa, but Mandela still has immense influence, just like Qaddafi.

But obviously propaganda has played a big role in suppressing the truth. The Western media has intentionally kept a tight lip on the Libyan governing system, this is no doubt a fact, the reason is also not that hard to decipher. The Jamahariya governing system, if spreads, will abolish the governments of the world. That means people like Obama, Tony and other periodic dictators won't exists. It is a threat to periodic dictatorial democracies.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
reply to post by confreak

 

I agree with what you are saying with the exception of the importance of Gaddafi. He appears to have built a classic cult of personality around himself. His arrest or death is a top priority for NATO.

I do think the NTC will have a tough time ahead, though, no matter what their strategy might be.

A 2.5 Mlilion Bounty on Gaddafi? thats not enough to last for two years and yet bin ladens bounty was alot higher

reward of up to $25 million

This is qutie a nonsense heck even some other criminals there bounty is alot higher.

His arrest or death is a top priority for NATO

personally i think he already left libya, one of King Idrs Family member is in the NTC wasnt that pretty much obvious what the real goal is?

There is still fighting going on in Tripoli. According to Al Jazeera, there are parts of the city where the rebels cannot enter. Also, snipers are being very effective at stopping columns of pickup trucks. From the loyalist point of view, these are encouraging signs.

However from a sympathetic observer's point of view, the situation is disappointing.

Memo to strongmen trying to resist the West:

Do like Switzerland does. Put an assault rifle in every broom closet. That way, when hooligans come over for dinner, you can say "hello" the way the Somalis did in Black Hawk Down.

There was some of that going on, but not enough.

Also there were too many high level defections among Gaddafi associates. That's a good indicator of a low level of truly committed support. How many high level people defected from Ho Chi Min to help the French or the Japanese or the Americans?

I don't know. It might have been hundreds but the point is, no matter how many it was, it wasn't enough to defeat him.

Gaddafi is soft and self indulgent. He has been a long time in office. His sons are only a shadow of their father. Maybe they will toughen up in the south and turn Sirte into a little slice of Somalia, a mouthful of bile that normal people won't want to taste. Maybe they can come back.

Maybe the average Libyan is just content to be a wage slave, like people in my country, in fact, like me.

Originally posted by ignant
next phase, US sends Nato ground troops?

Probably not US.

The EU created EUROFOR to go in after the Colonel's government collapsed. They are just waiting on his kill or capture and the Europeans will go in. I would bet it will be primarily a French force.

This is from the Al Jazeera YouTube channel. There have been some excellent reports from that source. This one talks about how the tunnel system is being used by loyalist forces.

reply to post by ipsedixit


Reports on Sky news are suggesting that the rebels may have Gaddafi surrounded in a series of apartment buildings however they are saying that this news which is from Reuters cannot yet be verified.

Fighting in central Tripoli has continued - as rebels claim they have besieged a cluster of apartments where they believe Colonel Muammar Gaddafi and some of his sons are hiding.

Tripoli Fighting:

reply to post by lifeissacred

If he is still in Tripoli, he is undoubtedly using the tunnel system to make personal appearances to encourage his fighters. I don't think he will stay in Tripoli, though. He will probably head south. He has said that he won't leave Libya, but that might have to change eventually. If he really represents something that Libyans and Arabs at large, want, he may have to go abroad to continue the fight against the Globalists.

Remember, Gaddafi is the pre-eminent Pan Arabist and the pre-eminent Pan Africanist. He has been a great champion of his region, although, in my opinion he has done many very foolish things too.

He has had big ideas but now is the time for big wisdom. The lion needs to take lessons from the fox now.

There is a good summary of what is going on at the following link. Loyalists are reinforcing Sirte wth heavy weapons and have apparently halted one column of rebels short of that goal.

I find it hard to believe that Gaddafi is holed up in a building in Tripoli, but some rebels are asserting that. Is it propaganda? Time will tell.

english.aljazeera.net...

It looks like Gaddafi's importance to Arabs, i.e., that he is unimportant, has been recognized by the Arab League.

blogs.aljazeera.net...

The Arab League has given its full backing to Libya's rebel National Transitional Council (NTC) as the legitimate representative of the Libyan people and said it was time for Libya to take back its permanent seat on the League's council.
"We agreed that it is time for Libya to take back its legitimate seat and place at the Arab League. The NTC will be the legitimate representative of the Libyan state," Nabil Elaraby, the League's secretary-general, told reporters in Cairo.
The NTC's representative at the League, Abdelmoneim el-Houni, said Libya would resume its League membership at a meeting of Arab ministers on Saturday.

Is he a Spy?

(CNN) -- After months of psychological torment by guards loyal to Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi, when a commotion arose outside the door of his solitary confinement cell in Tripoli's most notorious prison, Matthew VanDyke was sure he was going to be executed.

Remember there were reports of CIA been as journalists just look at the way he has stated

"Despite everything, I have no problems with Libyans," VanDyke said, describing his safety and plans in Tripoli. "But I'll be determined to stay here to see the end of Gadhafi."

and the fact that he

VanDyke said he was eventually able to hook up with another escaped inmate who had ties to rebel forces and could speak English.

RT's live feed from Tripoli is on again. It is 9:11 PM in Tripoli, and dark obviously. I assume the camera is aimed at the Bab Al Aziziya compound, which is now being used as a staging ground by the rebels. Gaddafi loyalists had been bombarding it yesterday.

It looks quiet. Can't hear any gunfire at the moment.

rt.com...

Just saw a big puff of white smoke rise and blow along. Someone must have opened the door to the pita oven.

I just heard gunfire . . .

Canadian Rebel Died

Canadian rebel fighter killed in Libya

In Other Words was he a terrorist?

and a great comment by a user

If you don't like Gaddafi, then remove him on your own. If you can't do it on your own it means you don't have enough support. You need to get more support. If you can't succeed, you have to accept it. But selling one's country to foreign power for the sake of coming to power is treason.

The public didn't learn much about supporting "freedom fighters" in the 1980's.

He took up arms against a sovereign nation? Only in this land of confusion he is deemed a hero.

Just a little heads up

The level of gunfire has picked up, although "sporadic" would probably be the best description of it. (It is well above what we are used to in the Jane and Finch area of Toronto.)

There is a lot of religious chanting going on at the moment. I think the muezzin was calling, which seems to have set off a chorus of other voices . . . other muezzins?

The effect reminded me of Omar Khayam. Very atmospheric.

There is a whole chorus singing now. Amazing.


They have really started ripping with the gunfire now.

Now I can hear the crickets singing with the gunfire in the backround. What a soothing sound. They make a profound and poetic statement, but I'm not Omar Khayam and the meaning of what they are saying is lost in translation.

The sound track of this war is a mashup that I have never heard together before: people chanting, people singing, casual conversation, women laughing, machine guns and cannon fire rattling and crickets singing. Each in it's own register, each distinct and audible in the symphonic score.

A major gun battle has been going on for some time now.