"The Bright Morning Star", What is That?

Revelation 22:16
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star!”

Who? My angel? What? Confused? If you feel that way then you have company. Let's see of we can figure this thing out?

Can angels claim to be God and with right, as in being perfectly acceptable practice? Yes, it seems so, and not only angels but prophets and Moses can speak exactly as if they were God themselves.

So could Jesus have an angel who speaks as if he is God or speak as if he was the son of God? How far does this concept go in its application?

reply to post by jmdewey60


What does this have to do with a bright morning star????

reply to post by jmdewey60


Hi, OP, It's Venus...

As the morning star, Venus is visible before sunrise, and as the evening star it shines forth immediately after sunset. Because of these qualities, a number of names have been given to it by the ancients. Being visible in the sky at sunset, it was called vesper, and as it arose before the sun, it was called the false light, the star of the morning, or Lucifer, which means the light-bearer. Because of this relation to the sun, the planet was also referred to as Venus, Astarte, Aphrodite, Isis...5

Manly P. Hall, The Secret Teachings of All Ages.

Originally posted by josh2009s
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

What does this have to do with a bright morning star????

Jesus , meaning the risen glorified Christ who somehow appears to John the Revelator in a vision, says that he is the Bright morning Star. I am wondering what that means and if anyone else has an interpretation for it, or is it another thing that people generally ignore and pass off as hyperbole.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Its like the SUN....bringer of life and all that.
Misinterpretations made by goat herders

Take that book with a huge pinch of salt, its a story....fantasy

reply to post by Frater210
That is interesting that you say Isis.
The Romans in the time of the Apostles were seriously into Isis and had an annual city wide festival in her name with a procession and is thought by some to be the origin of the more modern Carnival.
Paul talked about a festival that believers in Jesus should not be judged for keeping and I think of this thing as the likely application of that verse. So you bring up another possible connection. Jesus being related to Isis by sharing the same planet as representative of them.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Some books of the Bible like Revelations, are understood by every person according to their individual consciousness developed, as this conscience progress, the meanings of the book get unlocked.

And then there's this. Curioser and curioser...

The Morning Star in Isaiah 14:12

The Book of Isaiah has the following passage: When the Lord has given you rest from your pain and turmoil and the hard service with which you were made to serve, you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon: How the oppressor has ceased! How his insolence has ceased! … How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of congregation on the heights of Zaphon; I will ascend to the tops of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High." But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit. Those who see you will stare at you, and ponder over you: "Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities, who would not let his prisoners go home?[9]

The passage refers to the king of Babylon, a man who seemed all-powerful, but who has been brought down to the abode of the dead ("Sheol"). Isaiah promises that the Israelites will be freed and will then be able to use in a taunting song against their oppressor the image of the Morning Star, which rises at dawn as the brightest of the stars, outshining Jupiter and Saturn, but lasting only until the sun appears. This image was used in an old popular Canaanite story that the Morning Star tried to rise high above the clouds and establish himself on the mountain where the gods assembled, in the far north, but was cast down into the underworld.[3][10]

The phrase "O Day Star, son of Dawn" in the New Revised Standard Version translation given above corresponds to the Hebrew phrase "הילל בן־שׁחר" (Helel Ben-Shachar) in verse 12, meaning "morning star, son of dawn". As the Latin poets personified the Morning Star and the Dawn (Aurora), as well as the Sun and the Moon and other heavenly bodies, so in Canaanite mythology Morning Star and Dawn were pictured as two deities, the former being the son of the latter.[11]

In the Latin Vulgate, Jerome translated "הילל בן־שׁחר" (morning star, son of dawn) as "lucifer qui mane oriebaris" (morning star that used to rise early).[12] Already, as early as the Christian writers Tertullian and Origen,[10] the whole passage had come to be applied to Satan. Satan began to be referred to as "Lucifer" (Morning Star), and finally the word "Lucifer" was treated as a proper name. The use of the word "Lucifer" in the 1611 King James Version instead of a word such as "Daystar" ensured its continued popularity among English speakers.

Most modern English versions (including the NIV, NRSV, NASB, NJB and ESV) render the Hebrew word as "day star", "morning star" or something similar, and never as "Lucifer", a word that in English is now very rarely used in the sense of the original word in Hebrew (Morning Star), though in Latin "Lucifer" was a literal translation.

source:
en.wikipedia.org...:12

Originally posted by loves a conspiricy
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

Its like the SUN....bringer of life and all that.
Misinterpretations made by goat herders

Take that book with a huge pinch of salt, its a story....fantasy

I don't know where you draw the line, between fun and possibly enlightening fantasy, and dark fantasy that creates unhealthy thoughts, like being a superior race that God loves to the exclusion of all others.

Lucifer is the Morning Star AND Jesus is the Morning Star?
confused

Originally posted by Trueman
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

Some books of the Bible like Revelations, are understood by every person according to their individual consciousness developed, as this conscience progress, the meanings of the book get unlocked.

That seems like a reasonable assessment and would not want to argue against it other than maybe some people can take it from the more complex, into the more simple, while others take it in the opposite direction.
I prefer the former to the latter and boil it down to a simple key which is that it is always talking to the same people, and is always talking about the same people.

reply to post by jmdewey60


If you read the verse in Greek it is literally referring to Venus.

G792 aster as-tare'
probably from the base of G4766;
a star (as strown over the sky), literally or figuratively.

G2986 lampros lam-pros'
from the same as G2985;
radiant; by analogy, limpid; figuratively, magnificent or sumptuous (in appearance).

G3720 orthrinos or-thrin-os'
from G3722;
relating to the dawn, i.e. matutinal (as an epithet of Venus, especially brilliant in the early day).

Peace

reply to post by silent thunder
pthena may be able to help out on the Isaiah reference because I had heard it from him, that the translation of the Ugarit tablets revealed a myth that would have been current among the Phoenicians of the character who wanted to become one of the stars of the high council near the north star and who was cast down because of his ambitiousness.

Originally posted by louieprima
Lucifer is the Morning Star AND Jesus is the Morning Star?
confused

Lucifer is the Latin term for it and church people picked up on that to make it synonymous with Satan.
That may be a reason why people nowadays do not emphasise this part of the verse, so as to not cause confusion among the church goers.

Originally posted by louieprima
Lucifer is the Morning Star AND Jesus is the Morning Star?
confused

They both took the hit...think of two sides, one coin.

Proof...

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Revelation 2:26, 27, 28
"And to the one who conquers and who continues in my deeds until the end, I will give him authority over the nations – he will rule them with an iron rod and like clay jars he will break them to pieces, just as I have received the right to rule from my Father – and I will give him the morning star."

This is something I was thinking about that would cause me to start a thread on the topic.
I feel like there is a connection between this and the verse I quoted in the OP.
There is this character who John sees in vision who is among the candlesticks or lamps that represent the churches. He is described as having white hair and fiery eyes and feet like lustrous polished brass.
This same person in another section claims to be son of God. Was he actually "My Angel" who Jesus spoke of?
Here he is quoting from Psalms 2 which some consider to be the coronation song for the Messiah.
Is this person with white hair "the Lord" who says to "My Lord" to sit on my footstool?
Does Jesus have an angel who represents "Son of God" acting the part, to give the kingdom to Jesus, who is playing the part of son of man, in order to have this prophecy fulfilled after the resurrection?

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand

Originally posted by louieprima
Lucifer is the Morning Star AND Jesus is the Morning Star?
confused

They both took the hit...think of two sides, one coin.

Proof...
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

I think scholars have decided there were something like four different writers under that same name, Isaiah and my current thinking is to be suspicious of what god is speaking there.

the profane have been struggling with this for centuries.....

these words attributed to Jesus seem to be implying He is the Morning Star...

Issiah defines the Morning Star or Son of the Morning as being Lucifer..

Is Jesus saying he is Lucifer?

can we identify the writer of Revelations? not for sure..

Is Lucifer.. Satan? or Tyson.. or Set?

Once when I first ran across this I asked several men of the Church ...

the general answer I got was that He is the... get this "New" bright and shining Morning Star...

Once again attributing human characteristics to "God"..

trying to "one up" Lucifer...

reply to post by reeferman

Once when I first ran across this I asked several men of the Church ...

the general answer I got was that He is the... get this "New" bright and shining Morning Star...

Once again attributing human characteristics to "God"..

trying to "one up" Lucifer...

Some sort of designation and one too important to leave vacant.
This seems to be a transferable name and can be "given" to a person as a reward, or in the Lucifer sense, a demotion. To a mortal, it would be a promotion. What I am wondering is what this god-like apparition is doing in handing out this name, back in the early part of Revelation, then in the end of the book Jesus ending up with it, as if it was a prize.

Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand

Originally posted by louieprima
Lucifer is the Morning Star AND Jesus is the Morning Star?
confused

They both took the hit...think of two sides, one coin.

Proof...
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

I think scholars have decided there were something like four different writers under that same name, Isaiah and my current thinking is to be suspicious of what god is speaking there.

I just use simple logic to come to my conclusions. If there was nothing, then God created everything, then the perception of good and evil is surely included into the confines of creation, thus God (just as he says) "makes peace and creates evil". Is it not down to the "free will" (judgement) of man to decide his or her own path?

Isaiah 59:8
The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.

Doesn't it say to be weary of scholars? "He's got the whole world in his hands..."

Peace