Things to consider before voting in 2012. We, the United States do not have a financial problem.

reply to post by Nkinga


Give first?? To whome? Save Second? ok..Live off the rest? This is about as backwards as It gets...unless I'm completely misunderstanding what you are trying to say?

To bring this back on topic then regarding 2012 election ect...may we first adress the more severe issues at play before we start on "the discipline" of the American People? Like the fact that none of the canidates themselves even qualify as a legitimate canidate EVEN IF WE WERE to be disciplined people?

Ok lets pretend we all got on track and were "disciplined" as you like to call it....then what? Suddenly because we solved our discipline problem the obviously bought presidential canidate problem goes away?

You would have an arguement if we were ditching to the way side a whole slew of great POTUS options in favor of the horrible ones we have had...this isn't the case, there are no good POTUS options and haven't been since probably Kennedy...Ron Paul ya ok....and guess who's support he has the most of? THE PEOPLE you are saying are irresponsible, undisciplined and slefish instant gratification generation etc...

the same people that said NO TO DEBT CEILING INCREA$E....but instead the greedy ELITE you want to shove under the carpet and forget about GOT THEIR WAY...and THEY GOT THEIR INCREASE....and my grandkids are F****D!!!!

The people who you think are being undisciplined and irresponsible are ready to be responsible and are begging the elites to let us deal with the issue....but no...they want to ride this one out as far as it can go...

reply to post by Sly1one


The fact thats its backwards to you, and to many, makes my point for me. Give to whom...any help in need you choose. Some would chose their church, some would maybe choose a homeless shelter, My way? example..purely..not even maybe the right way? but my way I can see best? I set a set amount. I don't deviate from it. I don't sit and say, well I could use an extra 20 this week. I have a set amount..and it stays that way. With that set amount, I give to a number of places. Women and children's center in my area. Foster child agency in my area, and the local children's hospital (St. Jude)

Saving..again..set amount..I do no deviate from it..nor do I touch it. However..I'm probably an odd ball out here. My savings do not go to stock market, nor 401K, or any other government saving program. My thoughts? the bank constantly charges us for use of their money right? you buy a house? you get a mortgage, you have to pay interest right? Yet...they use our money for any number of wrong investments (because lets face it, if they were good investments, the banking industry would not have needed a stimulus package) and yet..we don't exactly get to charge them an interest rate for that..right?

Living off the rest. This one was difficult. This one was what made me realize..I was spoiled and undisciplined in my money decisions. This one meant no new car every 2-3 years. This one meant a smaller house. This one meant my laptop being 9 years old and still working This one meant no credit cards...at all..ever. This one meant that the bedroom set, living room set and kitchen table I bought 10 years ago..not being replaced. This one meant no trips to the mall just because. This one meant, waiting for the movie to come out on tv, rather then paying cable+money each month to the movie theaters....along with an expanding waistline when I paid them for popcorn and a coke (which I saved just in that, when I began watching the movie at home and making my own popcorn for 1% of the price ) and the money I saved on diet pills and diet programs??? This one meant .....etc etc etc etc etc..I think you get my point? maybe?

Look, obviously, not everyone will go to this way of thinking...its a utopia idea, its what would in fact save our country..at least in the financial area...if our elected leaders followed simple accounting taught to high school students. At the very least,..we would know that when we have the chance to place blame somewhere, we do not find that blame within ourselves.

reply to post by Nkinga


Well I guess there is a huge disconnect in philosophies between you and I.

I don't believe in "charity" I believe in self-sufficiency and Independent living.

I believe "charity" is just another way to "create" jobs that "create an Industry" out of people's suffering. When you create an industry out of suffering you create a conflict of interest...when you create a conflict of interest...the reason for the "charity" is lost.

Suddenly instead of helping people with cancer, you are employing 15 people whos families depend on that "charity" to continue their lifestyles and then suddenly...the "CURE" or eradication of that suffering is a direct THREAT to those 15 families "way of life"...suddenly as a victim you are outnumbered 15 to 1....

15 families way of life will FOREVER TRUMP the cure to your suffering...The "Cancer Industry" is a great example...

The above is part of the "system" in which we have devised in all our intelligence to "HELP" people who suffer, much like you suggested to do in all your wisdom...in reality all it is doing is making a profitable industry out of the suffering of others under the guise of HELP...

THIS is an unescapable gear in the US societal machine...within this "system" we must always use others to survive...

I really wish with all my heart it was something as simple as "discipline" and "selfishness" of "we the people" because ultimately I believe that it a solveable problem. However I feel it is much much MORE complex and sickening than simply a "discipline" issue...

reply to post by Sly1one


Which actually goes and makes my case for me, and completely rebuts everything you said. To stay in the little bubble you're in means, keeping with the status quo, whats yours is yours, and what you can get is yours. Like I said in my opening...if 98% of what you have is just for you...thats greed. Greed=sense of entitlement=spoiled which comes with an abundance of resources. But yet, in the same turn will blame those in charge for the same actions. In other words...you have to pull the stick out of your own eye,...before you can blow the sawdust out of anothers.

Originally posted by Nkinga
reply to post by Sly1one

 

Which actually goes and makes my case for me, and completely rebuts everything you said. To stay in the little bubble you're in means, keeping with the status quo, whats yours is yours, and what you can get is yours. Like I said in my opening...if 98% of what you have is just for you...thats greed. Greed=sense of entitlement=spoiled which comes with an abundance of resources. But yet, in the same turn will blame those in charge for the same actions. In other words...you have to pull the stick out of your own eye,...before you can blow the sawdust out of anothers.

what in the hell are you even talking about??

Are you implying that If I provide solely for myself using only my own hard work (I'm not talking about pushing someone else's agenda at a JOB) ie: grow and cultivate my own food hunt and kill my own animals and build my own shelter that I AM GREEDY??

I think you need to revise your definition of "greed" you are confusing it with INDEPENDENCE and SURVIVAL and RESPONSIBILITY OF SELF...which by no stretch or reach of the imagination comes close to what one can consider "GREED"

There is a line and you seem to be drawing the "greed" line very close to basic necessity...

-Greed is having 5 different colored sports cars 4 maids 3 vacation homes 2 mansions and a partridge in a pair tree...
-Greed is pushing people into a machine that REQUIRES their participation to SURVIVE...
-Greed is acquiring resources NECESSARY for survival on such a scale others become DEPENDENT on you and thus have to participate in the above mentioned machine to survive...
-Greed is many things but it is NOT and never should be confused with INDEPENDENT and SELF-Responsibility...which you appear to be doing.

The only thing you will get me to agree with you on is that everyone in the US could learn to live off less but

I'll be damned if I work extra to provide for anyone else...you, nor anyone else should be "my problem" nor I should be yours...Everyone is capable of taking care of themselves and if they are not its the responsibility of their immediate family to take care of them as their burden.

The "charity" you preach of enables the "entitlement" blame trip you appear to be on...

sounds like you "tithe" your money since you "set aside" an amount every month to "give away"

If there is one thing I cannot stand it is "that guy" who "donates" to a charity or gives his money away to "a cause" and therefor becomes an expert do gooder on a self righteous high horse saying "the world would be a better place if people were more like ME!!!"...

get off it...

reply to post by Sly1one


So, your idea of greed, is that only someone with millions of dollars, who can afford multiple material items can be greedy? What about say..the middle class man with 3 flat screen tvs? he can't be greedy?

You talk about growing your own food...so, maybe this way will get you understand more of what I am saying.

So, great..you grow your own food, and you work really hard at it....farming your land, tilling the ground, planting the seeds, making sure everything grows just right...right? making sure the food you are growing, has all it needs to be a good crop..right? Now, after all your hard work...you have a big crop. An "abundance" more than you can eat that year. What do you do with it? Do you eat it all in one sitting?(spending all your money, living above your means) Do you eat some (spending first)....and then can (save) the rest? (saving second) do you give any of it to those who maybe..even after their hard work..a flood came and destroyed their crop? (giving the small percentage last?)

Or do you?

Measure it out, decide what percentage you can give away, what percentage you can save? and what you can live off of?

if 98% of that abundance is all for you? then yes..that is greed....remember we're talking about abundance here..and to even understand what I am saying, you would have to acknowledge that America has abundance. To say we do not..would be huge blindness to facts.

Can you really argue against the fact that most have more than they need...but not enough finances to pay for it? Thats what we are talking about here. Those, most, who are spending their money foolishly. Can you really say that all...95% of the not millionaires are not spending their money foolishly? Can you really sit and say...that you yourself do not ever spend your money foolishly? Can you really truthfully say that only millionaires can be greedy? they just have more money to be greedy with. The middle class man and even the poor man can be greedy...just with less material objects.

Lets get really honest....if you (and by you I mean..anyone...not you specifically, but anyone person, including me) if you lost your job tomorrow, your source of income...and as a result could not afford your bills..then you are living above your means. Because if you, hell..lets even do away with the giving part...we'll just throw that out for argument sake...if you, are saving first..and spending last? then there should be the source of income that you saved, to get you through the hard times. If your spending first and maybe never saving? how can anyone say thats not foolish? How can anyone person argue against that? But..on top of that..if your one of the ones sitting here...blaming our government for people with no food, no house, homeless, in poverty..and you want them to do something for those people..but you yourself will not? that is being a hypocrite. That is sitting there with a log in both your yes..while picking out the sawdust in others. If your sitting there...saying our government is spending foolishly, and you could do it better..when your own finances are in shambles? That is hypocrisy. If your sitting here whining about what you don't have...but yet, you have a roof on your head, and food on your table? yes...that is greed and entitlement. And facts are facts...we can expect better from someone else....if we don't expect it in ourselves first.

I am not advocating for our government or its ways at all. What I am saying is if we are going to make changes, see changes, and vote in changes? then our way of thinking, our way of how we have been living needs to change first.