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Solipsism - With an amazing video that I'm sure you'd LOVE to see

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posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 09:00 AM
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All babies are born as Atheistic Solipsists. Remember that only your mind exist and all of this is imagination. All of this is EXTENSION of your mind. Any beautiful music or art comes from your mind, your imagination. Any person in your life is a part of YOU.

Everyone, everything, the all, is all a part of YOU!


Link (In case video doesn't work)
edit on 21-8-2011 by arpgme because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 10:12 AM
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This is just faith.

I don't like faith.

But I find the thought intriguing.

Not because I want to deny responsibility.

But because so many people have died, and I don't want to mourn them.

I want to think that they weren't real or are still alive because it reduces the pain.

But this is faith.

And I don't like faith.

But I find the thought intriguing...

(if you can guess, the line of thought just repeats itself)

But let me offer up another possibility for why babies are 'atheist and solipsist'...

This is a quote from a previous post I made:

It's part of getting old. This is why we die. We die because we collect so much garbage in our body and mind that moving forward would be a waste of energy. That's why we produce children. We could never survive the future, it would be too expensive. We can't change fast enough because of all of the garbage we've collected in our lifetime. It's the nature of things.

Sometimes I think that death is like eternal sleep. If we never slept, we would take the previous day's worries with us into the new one. It would be increasing anxiety... Our destiny would be to die soon after. Each new day that we wake up we're a little different from the day before. That's like death. When a child is born, it's like us when we wake up from a long night of sleep.

And life is like small hills and valleys in larger hills and valleys. The weeks and months and years of experiences start to shape longterm memories. And just as a day will collect anxiety, a life will collect anxiety in the form of the memories and habits we have. So, it comes to a crescendo, and then we lie down and we go to sleep forever. Our children are us, just after a long, restful sleep.

I admire people who fight. But a lot of it's paranoia and unproductive. Some is just futile. Some is productive, but the best fighters don't spill blood or kill or destroy, they produce and create. It's in the creation of new things that is our hope. Because in new things there is a fresh start.

Fear is rooted in denial of death. If you can overcome that, you'll have the greatest power. But that power should be used to produce and make new things, not to be a fool.


edit on 21-8-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 01:55 PM
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Solipsism from a philosophical view is mildly interesting, but not terribly satisfying.

Solipsism from a psychological perspective may go in a very bad direction. Sociopaths are in many ways "practical" solipsists. Perhaps a sobering thought?

Of course, if it's all just "me", then responsibility disappears as well. It's all illusion, me trying to trick myself into this or that, intentionally "forgetting", else it would be no "fun". Hmmm...

Actually, sort of lame as a philosophy, IMO! It does pretty much the same thing the religious paradigms do, it tries to explain "reality", but fails. They all fail ultimately, reality is seemingly inexplicable.

OK, so when we actually face reality, why is it that the last thing we would think about is absurd solipsism?

Example, you get attacked in the street, "you" end up in the hospital, and when you can "remember" what happened, you recall that your child who was with you at the time, was actually killed in the attack!

The "reality" of remorse, and grief, and deep suffering is suddenly upon "you".

All because the dot got bored? Really? Well, the solipsist needs to be OK with that.

So, if that's the way "we" feel, then we should just have a beer with our child's killer, and laugh about how interesting the whole carnival called "life" is, ha, ha, ha!!

Except that, reality shouts at you that this killer is the last guy you want to have a beer with, and further, that the responsible thing to do is make sure the scum-bag is forever off the streets.

A more important thing to think about might be why solipsism has enjoyed such recent popularity. I could put it differently, and please don't think of me as rude to say so, but what the heck is wrong with people who are seriously attracted to this concept? A valid concern, IMO.

Of course, as a mere intellectual consideration, all is fine and good. But let us "remember" common sense, when such systems tempt us to consider them "too" seriously.

-------------------------------------------------------

OK, so the "logic" of the system has to do with the distinction between what we usually regard as "self", and "other". A nice video to demonstrate this "distinction", such as it is from the OP. But we shouldn't stop there, mainly because there is no CONTEXT, in fact, solipsism is devoid of genuine context, since all is considered a "dream" of sorts, a priori.

Taking a step back, is there something about "otherness" that we directly experience, something that we "know", that inherently helps contradict the assumption that there is only "one"?

Yes. That thing is what we call "relationship". It is a thing that requires "otherness" of course, and if you follow me, you might even conclude that it does indeed require "true" otherness.

The solipsist solution? Well, they are stuck with the rather lame repetitive thought that this is still OK, since (again), the "illusion" of other is there, to perhaps provide "surprises" that come from relating to "others". Circular reasoning anyone? Lack of sufficient gravity for such drastic action? Questionable motives?

Of course, the more we examine the nature of "relationship", the more we discover it's importance. We value it highly, so highly in fact, that it is valued literally above life itself. An example here could be the "one" that sacrifices their life for the many, or a loved one.

Interestingly, religious theology was already stuck examining this issue thousands of years ago. Even when ideal notions, and the concept of "deity" were being treated of, relationship seemed paramount. And so a pantheon was born. Gods needed to have other gods to relate to.

When the concept of monotheism became popular due to the convergence of Greek thought, and Jewish traditional context, the issue of a "solitary" god was just as thorny as the issue of the "solitary" solipsist singular entity.

Christian thinkers were sort of the "synthesis" of Jewish and Greek thought at that time, and so a "Trinity" was born. They understood that even if there was "only one" god, that this god would have to enjoy "relationship" somehow, and "he" would have to do it at "his level". Meaning, a god would have to have "another" god to properly relate to. Mere creatures, no matter how advanced, could never cut it, "equals" seemed to be necessary. Another way to put it, a man might have a dog that he loves, but the dog could never relate to him like his wife.

This ancient intuition about essential relationship, amongst equals, remains today just as valid as it was thousands of years ago, regardless of what our particular beliefs might be.

Does this "invalidate" solipsism? Not really. It's not something that can be "disproved", like most things of this nature.

From a practical standpoint, can thinking this way be "good"? Sure. Levels of "acceptance", of all. Some "peace" may result, for some inclined this way.

Can it be "bad"? Obviously, as I first pointed out, it diminishes EVERYTHING, because everything (except "you") is a dream.

Call it a "wash"? I don't think so. Actually, I much prefer to go about thinking that every person is very "real", yes, as "real" as I am!

Can "oneness" be preserved in any way, if we choose to accept that there really is "other", due to the apparent implications of relationship?

YES. In fact, we all "share" the "same" human nature. In that sense, we are "one".

I can understand how you feel if you lack food. I too have been hungry.

I see a peson confused, and in pain. I too have been confused and in pain.

We empathize, and our empathy is a beautiful thing, especially when it translates into action, for our fellow creatures.

Of course, if it is all illusion, where is the "beauty"? Where is the nobility of "selfless" action, when all is assumed to be quite literally SELFISH?

JR



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by JR MacBeth
 


Realizing that it is all an illusion does not have to mean that responsibility disappears. This game of life is being play and what's the point of playing if you don't play by some of the rules.

Imagine how boring monopoly would be if you don't use your imagination and just keep saying "The money is FAKE!"

When bad things happen in life, solipsism is the last thing thought of just like when having a nightmare you are just running and not realizing it's a dream.

Also, I think a life of happy and sad emotion is better than a life of no emotions....

If someone were to killer, it is not reality that shouts at you not to be friends with the person. It is your emotion, and it is society which trained you to believe that killers need to be locked up (off the streets).

People are willing to die for the people here for the same reason that people die for non-existent gods... it feels real to them.

According to solipsism it can't be bad or good because that too is an illusion. You can only measure bad and good from what life - the illusion - has taught you.

Just like you can feel a person's hunger and a person's suffering, you can also feel the same thing for the non-existent ones in your dreams if it is vivid enough.

I'm not sure about others, but realizing that this is all me and this is all the mind, actually makes me care MORE for people because I realize that all are really me so when I'm nice to them I'm nice to myself...

If it is all an illusion, then where is the beauty? Well, for me, it is the millions of different types of beautiful flowers that my mind created. It's the beautiful scenery of nature that my mind created. It is the beautiful musics and arts that others have made but which I really created since all is really and extension of my own mind...

Notice how there is no religion of solipsism, for the purpose of religion is to control and solipisism is realizing that in reality you are free since your mind is all that really exist and everything else is just an extension of that...



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


I'm not sure how many are going to agree with your idea about killers, but your logic at least would be consistent.

Do you notice how you focus so much on the positive aspects of life? Usually, this is not a bad thing, and it's better than someone who focuses on only the bad, but in fact, reality is somewhere in between.

Your signature line says a lot I suppose. Anyway, you enjoy your millions of flowers, and take pride (so-to-speak) as a solipsist in "your" myriad creations, art, music.

What say you about "your" ugly side? The numerous diabolical inventions of war? The many bizarre systems of religious belief, that have enslaved billions, for centuries? How about an answer for the poor slobs reading this, from a miserable wheelchair? (Please forgive them for failure to don the rose-colored glasses this morning.)

In fact, if we take humanity as a whole, seen down through history, we seem to observe a very "sick" creature. If solipsism is correct, then this sick creature must derive a lot of value (or pleasure perhaps?) out of suffering.

An easier idea, that takes the onus off of "us" (sort of), but retains the characteristics of a monist singularity, is the old Eastern notion of "god dreaming".

Here's what I wrote back in June, when you started a thread about this same topic...



New Age thinkers, taking their queue from Hindu tradition, often have indulged in a worldview that says that we, all of us, the universe too, all is "god". Further, our individual experiences are all illusion, that individuality is illusion, etc. It's all just "god" experiencing various facets of the whole, and we are deluded, never "remembering" that we are just god dreaming.

It's sort of "divine solipsism", although few ever see the parallels.

Could it be that the notion itself contains contradiction, just as the OP senses that something isn't quite right with solipsism? Or, is the circle so tight that any reasoning to the contrary can easily be dispensed with, since after all, how could we ever "know" we weren't dreaming or were deluded?

What would the implications be, for someone locked into a belief system, that included something so "air-tight"? How would they ever "escape" such a notion (delusion?), if every time, they came back to the same wall, and inscribed upon it was, "You will never know that you aren't just deluded / dreaming!"??


Much the same problems, whether we are all "god" dreaming, or just "us", somehow not quite as "divine".

A satisfying way to view life? Not for me.

JR



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 10:29 AM
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To me, anything is possible. Solipsism might be the answer. But maybe Jesus is. Maybe Buddha is. Maybe there is no god and we're hapless actors in a sort of cosmic evolutionary computation. The fact that we're here and thinking, shows that our universe has made the right choices up to this point in time. That's all it says, though. Whether we will be here in a million years, or a billion, is an open question. But anyway, anything is possible.

But what do we have evidence for? What is unfalsifiable? If I replaced the word god in the bible with Santa Claus, does it change the meaning in anyway? How do we prove something wrong, if it's based on a prediction of our future, -without- letting time itself be our witness?

We have 5 (or 6?) senses. We use them to absorb information and to work in relative harmony with our environment. If there is a cliff in front of me and another cliff only 3 feet away from this one, I can reliably jump the gap (it's only 3 feet) and land safely on the other side. I can do that because there is evidence. Our senses depend on evidence much as we do when we make a choice. I think that when we contemplate a theory for everything, we should similarly demand evidence before we jump into the void. A theory of everything is nothing to take lightly. Many of these theories become religion, and are dangerous.

I feel pain often when I think about death and misery and similar things. Do I wish this turned out to be some kind of simulation? Yes!!! I'd sure be angry at whoever put me here, but it would relief me a great deal. Additionally, if I knew that -right now- then it would remove a lot of the fears I have. Would it make me kill others? I doubt it. I do not like to hurt people, whether it's real or imagined. But like I've already said, a theory of everything is unwise if it's not also grounded in factual evidence. I mean, I don't want to be stupid.

But... about a week ago I had some interesting moments. I was thinking about how light hits our eyes. I already know that the difference in angle of viewing, produced by our two separate eyes, allows our brain to compute distance and give the world we see a 3d depth of perception effect. I then realized that we will one day be able to fake this effect by changing the angle of incoming light that reaches our separate eyes. Maybe we will do it with goggles or a headset, or maybe we will direclty tap into the brain, but either way, we will be able to produce the 3d depth of perception effect in virtual reality. None of it will be real, though. All our lives we have seen distances, both nearby and far, and this has strengthened our resolve that reality is expansive and present. But how will producing this effect in virtual reality change our views?

I started to think about how most space around us is empty, including inside us. If most space is empty, then isn't the perception of distance we see with our eyes a kind of illusion too? Most of the space between us and what we're looking at is.... nothing. Is 'nothing' real? Is it really all that much different from the psuedo-3d effect produced by holograms or by a hypothetical futuristic technology we may one day use in virtual reality to simulate depth of perception?

That's what it boils down to: most of what constitutes reality is 'nothing'.

In virtual reality, distance is an effect; it's not real. It's just numbers that represent where objects are in the synthetic universe. But the same can nearly be said for RL. The only difference is that in virtual reality we have control of the code, whereas, in RL, we do not. In RL, we cannot cross the universe. In VR, we can. But in both cases, space is an illusion because it's mostly nothing.

Later that day, I was watching videos on youtube; just random things. Nothing to do with 3d or the matrix or depth of perception. Nevertheless, I came upon a parody-type video about the Matrix. It included a speech clip of Carl Sagan dubbed on top of the matrix scene so that the agent in view was portrayed as Carl Sagan. It was humorous and clever.

This is the video:
www.youtube.com...

The video is fun. But what's even stranger is that this was on the same day I was thinking about the 3d depth of perception effect and how there is so much empty space around us. At the end of this video, Carl Sagan points out that most space is empty. I don't know why, but this comment had me caught by surprise. It was exactly what I had been thinking about only hours earlier.

Call it a coincidence. Ever have those?
edit on 22-8-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 11:43 AM
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I don't think it does take away responsibilty. Whatever is going on here, we can not deny the fact that we are pleasure seekers. If anyone disagrees, then they are not acting intelligently and need to see that there is pain on one end of the scale and pleasure the other end. This is the choice you have, pain or pleasure.
An intelligent organism (even one celled organisms) move toward pleasure and away from pain.
The universe (or you, if you think it is all you) is self correcting. It is intelligence energy.



posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 09:33 PM
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I can agree with the general idea of solipsism.
We can not know anything with total certainty other than our own existence.

I suffer from schizophrenia. Though to my knowledge I haven't had any hallucinations in several years.
Suffering from hallucinations made me realize I can not trust my own senses. Granted I have never had a visual hallucination, mine was mostly hearing voices, and occasionally smelling things.
I also suffer from blunted affect, according to my psychiatrist. I have very little emotion and have a very hard time relating to other people. (Yes I realize this entire sentence might be contradicted a bit by my next)

So I can certainly agree, one can know for certain of their own existence. Outside of that, it is impossible to know for certain. Everything else is dependent on ones senses. And the senses can lie.

I however don't buy into the whole idea, that I am a dot, pretending to be a human, interacting with other dots that also happen to be me and i'm just choosing to forget, who I also am pretending are human which I also choose to forget. Or interacting with other dots that also happen to be me and i'm choosing to forget, who I am also pretending are objects or animals, which I also choose to forget. All because I don't want to be bored?
Way too complicated and if it were true... why would I choose to pretend to be in a world full of so much, for lack of a better word, evil, filled with people I ultimately don't care about. Makes absolutely no sense at all.

But whatever theory one can come up with, they need to back it up with proof.
Without proof, one is allowed to believe whatever they want, but should hesitate to take any severe actions based on those idea's.
This world seems very much real, and even if one feels it is not, one should act like it is. Because what is the consequence if one's theory is wrong.
Has one just committed murder, because they thought they were just erasing the image of someone in their mind?

Murder is one of the the more serious examples , but when one believes that the entire world is just part of their own mind, and that no one else is really real, only just play things for their own amusement it follows that they would act with very little disregard.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 03:11 AM
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Originally posted by FreezingVoid
I however don't buy into the whole idea, that I am a dot, pretending to be a human, interacting with other dots that also happen to be me and i'm just choosing to forget, who I also am pretending are human which I also choose to forget. Or interacting with other dots that also happen to be me and i'm choosing to forget, who I am also pretending are objects or animals, which I also choose to forget. All because I don't want to be bored?


That's not how it is. I am my mind and the only thing that exist is my mind and my mind is creating all of these illusions including the illusion of my physical body sensory perceptions...

I don't see it as "dots", I see it as, I am the one who is dreaming this dream...


Originally posted by FreezingVoid
Why would I choose to pretend to be in a world full of so much, for lack of a better word, evil, filled with people I ultimately don't care about. Makes absolutely no sense at all.


Nothing is being pretended, it's being dreamed. It's an illusion caused by the mind. Sometimes I have pleasant dreams and something I have nightmares. It makes perfect sense.


Originally posted by FreezingVoid
But whatever theory one can come up with, they need to back it up with proof.


Solipsism says that the self is all that you can know to be sure to exist. This is not a theory this is a fact. Even if you can cut open a person's brain and examine their consciousness somehow, you would still be relying on fallible senses (eyes - to examine), therefore, the only thing that you can know with absolute certainty is that you exist. That's a fact.


Originally posted by FreezingVoid
This world seems very much real, and even if one feels it is not, one should act like it is. Because what is the consequence if one's theory is wrong.


I won't accept that for the same reason that most people won't accept that the world is flat...


Originally posted by FreezingVoid
Has one just committed murder, because they thought they were just erasing the image of someone in their mind?


Yes, and this is true whether you believe in solipsism or not. People kill because they don't want to think about them anymore, they want them out of their life.


Originally posted by FreezingVoid
Murder is one of the the more serious examples , but when one believes that the entire world is just part of their own mind, and that no one else is really real, only just play things for their own amusement it follows that they would act with very little disregard.


I find it odd that solipsism gets such a bad rep. My life has been improving every since I accepted it.

I now care more about objects because I know that it is my mind that created it. I feel connected to everything because it is all from my mind. I feel more interested in people because I know that they are from my mind and I know that whatever they have to say is an indication of what my mind is imagining at the moment. It's like oneness and it is FULLY empowering because that oneness is not some universal consciousness or some god. It is ME. I created the universe, the art, the music, the foods, all off the beautiful scenery of nature. All of this stuff that I perceived in my life was/is-being imagined by my mind.
edit on 23-8-2011 by arpgme because: Spelling



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 06:26 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


Did you not read the video you posted in your opening post? The being a dot, pretending, and forgetting was pretty much the entire premise.

I can agree completely to the idea of this world being something my subconscious dreamed up. Or it all being a hallucination. Neither imply intention on my part. I do not see why my true self would want to create a world like this. Create a life like this. It would imply, great lack of imagination on my part...

And no I don't think solipsism is a great danger in itself, as long as one does not try to do any rash because of it. However solipsism like it is in your video, is quite dangerous, as you basically believe that everything is your plaything, or an extension of yourself. Mmm... in that case, if you murdered someone, would you be trying to commit suicide in a way?



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 06:41 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


This is ridiculous. You reeled me in with "Amazing Video", "You would LOVE to see", but it was truly uninspiring and .. annoying.

You make errors in your posts, stating things as "fact", saying they are "perfect". Your conclusions are far from that, and your new-found happiness in solipsism is a worry.

If you really feel empowered thinking that you created all that you see then ponder this - what if I felt just as empowered as you, claiming that I created them myself? Is it that your interpretation of these things is unique, your own, that you get this empowerment from? That is a fact - that it is your own interpretation, your own observation, but nothing more. I think you need to keep searching, my friend, before you get too caught up in this.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 06:48 AM
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Originally posted by FreezingVoid
Did you not read the video you posted in your opening post? The being a dot, pretending, and forgetting was pretty much the entire premise.


Well it's not like that. Solipsism says that only the self exists so that means that it's impossible for anything other to exist. That dot analogy is wrong and if there were a better video I would link it.


Originally posted by FreezingVoid
I can agree completely to the idea of this world being something my subconscious dreamed up. Or it all being a hallucination. Neither imply intention on my part. I do not see why my true self would want to create a world like this. Create a life like this. It would imply, great lack of imagination on my part...


Well, I don't know why I sometimes have bad dreams, and I don't know why my mind would want to give me a dream like that, but it does...



Originally posted by FreezingVoid
...solipsism like it is in your video, is quite dangerous, as you basically believe that everything is your plaything, or an extension of yourself. Mmm... in that case, if you murdered someone, would you be trying to commit suicide in a way?


I don't believe in solipsism as described in that video...

This is solipsism.

Only the mind of the self exists and the mind of the self is creating this dream of reality.



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 07:27 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


Then why reference the video as being amazing, and something that we would all want to see...?

What happens when there are multiple solipsist minds.. all claiming that they are the only thing that exists?



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 07:36 AM
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Originally posted by aclimbatized
What happens when there are multiple solipsist minds.. all claiming that they are the only thing that exists?


What do you mean by, what happens?



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 

End of the world, nosedive into chaos, imminent collapse, mass carnage, mass hysteria, extinction, death, hell on earth, disaster, etc. I mean, if nobody else exists and everything is just me, then I don't really need to listen to anyone else and can just do what I want, freely and obliviously, right? What happens when someone doesn't listen to others and just does what they want to, disregarding all former wisdom or advice that could possibly be given to them? You'd have to go back to before we were conceived in the mother's womb to find that. To act as though there is nothing to know because it's all illusionary and fake is to not even exist at all.

No need to learn or to know is the quickest pathway to game over. If you deny your senses then you deny any form of learning or knowing. We would be little more than cellular respiration.

It would be like turning back our evolutionary clock. Essentially, de-evolution.

Additionally, the -only- reason there is a measure of peace is because we all believe this is real. If that were not true, it would be like removing cards from a house of cards and watching it tumble. Deep inside each person, there is evil. With no rules, no faith in them, crime like we can't imagine would engulf the earth. It would result in a world of pure evil, with nothing to restrain it.

If you doubt there is evil in people, then I challenge you to be honest with yourself.
edit on 23-8-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 01:03 PM
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Wow, thanks for the video! I got a chuckle out of it as it reminds me of the first time I discovered my inner voice, all those years ago! And also,


Originally posted by JR MacBeth
Solipsism from a psychological perspective may go in a very bad direction. Sociopaths are in many ways "practical" solipsists. Perhaps a sobering thought?


I've often toyed around with the thought that I may be one of the only, "aware" people whom have a personality disorder...

To this day, no matter what situation I may be in, I wonder what would happen if I was to do something against the grain, people out there in the world that I relate to or function with on a daily basis....what If I was to do something that they would not expect?

Hmm I wonder what keeps me grounded?



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


Atleast we can both agree that solipsism as it described in your original post, is not something easy to believe. It may be within the realm of possibilities, but does no make enough sense to believe in it.

As for dreams, dreams. I don't think I have heard any scientist say what the function of dreams are. All they know is we need them to stay alive. Most people don't remember their dreams, or don't even remember having them. I for one know I dream every night, I don't remember them though, or if I do its only bits or snips, or general idea's about what they were about.
Dreams are connected to our sub conscious, and are outside the realm of active control. Unless of course you are a lucid dreamer, which is a whole different matter.

Nightmares I do not know why we have them. I know they can be interpreted to show signs of stress factors in our life.

At least 3 times a month for the past year I have had a recurring nightmare.

I am fighting in a battle on the edge of some big city. There are tanks everywhere on both sides. Then I see a flash of light, coming from the city. I look over to see a mushroom cloud, and a shock wave coming in my direction. As it is about to hit me I wake up.

No idea what it means, or why I am dreaming about it.
Possibly because around the time of its first occurrence I was reading Harry Turtledoves WorldWar series, and in the story many cities get bombed. Berlin, Rome, Washington DC, Chicago and other cities.
Could explain the initial occurrence, but I don't understand why I have had it reoccur with such frequency since...



posted on Aug, 23 2011 @ 10:16 PM
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Originally posted by jonnywhite
reply to post by arpgme
 

if nobody else exists and everything is just me, then I don't really need to listen to anyone else and can just do what I want, freely and obliviously, right?


The two does not relate. Knowing that others do not exist does not in itself give me freedom to do what I want. In my dreams, if I do something wrong, my illusions come after me and the pain feels real.

It's not the fact that things are an illusion which allows me to do what I want, I already had that freedom, the reason why I don't is because there are consequences... and generally, I love people. I even love the people of my dreams even though they are also fake.


Originally posted by jonnywhite
No need to learn or to know is the quickest pathway to game over. If you deny your senses then you deny any form of learning or knowing. We would be little more than cellular respiration.


I'm not denying my senses, I'm just understanding that they are illusions. In my dreams I would not put my hand in fire because even if it is a dream my hand still burns. The pain/pleasure in dreams feels as real as reality.



Originally posted by jonnywhite
It would be like turning back our evolutionary clock. Essentially, de-evolution.


There is no evolutionary clock, that's illusive. All of this is from my imagination.


Originally posted by jonnywhite
Additionally, the -only- reason there is a measure of peace is because we all believe this is real.


False, the reason why anything exists is because I'm imagining it. If I'm not imagining it in this present moment, it doesn't exist. My eternal mind is imagining my life and at this moment it is only imagining me typing this response so this is all that exist for now, nothing else does.


Originally posted by jonnywhite
Deep inside each person, there is evil. With no rules, no faith in them, crime like we can't imagine would engulf the earth. It would result in a world of pure evil, with nothing to restrain it.

If you doubt there is evil in people, then I challenge you to be honest with yourself.
edit on 23-8-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)


There is no such thing as evil or good, that is a concept creating by my imaginative mind


Originally posted by FreezingVoid
reply to post by arpgme
 


Atleast we can both agree that solipsism as it described in your original post, is not something easy to believe. It may be within the realm of possibilities, but does no make enough sense to believe in it.


It's true. There is only me.


Originally posted by FreezingVoid
reply to post by arpgme
 

As for dreams, dreams. I don't think I have heard any scientist say what the function of dreams are.


Science is an illusion. It's based on studying with the fallible senses (seeing/hearing, etc.)



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 09:44 PM
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It doesn't look like much feedback on my presentation of the notion of relationship, as an antidote to solipsist temptations.

Let me go at it again. The central issue with solipsism is whether or not there is "true" other, that is, is there something other than singularity / self?

For the individual trapped in the solipsist nightmare, all is delusion (not merely illusion), a self constantly trying to forget that they are alone.

They may convince themselves that such is the case. They look out onto a world they can barely comprehend, and yet they can somehow break their own arms patting themselves on the back for such "imaginative" wonder, as they literally "take credit" for everything (good) they encounter. Some feel wonderful as a result!

Let's side step the question about whether or not they belong in an asylum for now.

What does nature have to say? What hints can it provide, as we probe for likely possibilities?

How about the "brain"? Or should I say, brainS (plural)?

As most know, "we" "individuals" are not actually singular entities. Our brain is actually not "one" at all, it is rendered in two hemispheres. Medical research into the true nature of this interesting situation reveals that in a spooky way, we are in fact TWO "people", or two rather separate "individuals", in spite of being joined by a very thick "cable" of nerves. Certain brain injuries show clearly that the two are "different", one usually "dominant", the other less so. One may have it's favorite color, the one may choose to speak more, the other may enjoy music that the other doesn't like so much.

Until not so long ago, few dreamed of such a counter-intuitive state of affairs, and yet, here it is.

"Hey! Are you left brained, or right brained!?" Well, whatever "we" are, we are certainly both, but even that seems to suggest a "third" entity that is the product of both. Sort of a "human trinity", borrowing a term from religion.

What are we to make of this? Well, the solipsist may have the poor arm completely break off at this point, wildly patting themselves on the back, as they congratulate themselves on thinking of such a wild ruse, to "fool themselves" further, into thinking they are "not one" (the implication being that they are not alone, of course).

At what point can a person stop, and begin considering the enormous ramifications of true "relationship", as it pertains to our existence, not as we wish it to be, but as actually we find it?

JR



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by JR MacBeth
The central issue with solipsism is whether or not there is "true" other, that is, is there something other than singularity / self?

Obviously not if it's about the self being real and reality is an illusion.


Originally posted by JR MacBeth
What does nature have to say? What hints can it provide, as we probe for likely possibilities?


Irrelevant, nature is a part of that illusion.



Originally posted by JR MacBeth
How about the "brain"? Or should I say, brainS (plural)?


The brain is apart of the illusion, only the mind exists.

You know that you perceive with your mind but once you take your brain out to examine it, now you are relying with your eyes and physical senses which is apart of the illusion.


Originally posted by JR MacBeth
As most know, "we" "individuals" are not actually singular entities. Our brain is actually not "one" at all, it is rendered in two hemispheres. Medical research into the true nature of this interesting situation reveals that in a spooky way, we are in fact TWO "people", or two rather separate "individuals", in spite of being joined by a very thick "cable" of nerves. Certain brain injuries show clearly that the two are "different", one usually "dominant", the other less so. One may have it's favorite color, the one may choose to speak more, the other may enjoy music that the other doesn't like so much.


Science is an illusion. Science relies on seeing things and hearing things and eyes and ears are part of the illusion.



Originally posted by JR MacBeth
At what point can a person stop, and begin considering the enormous ramifications of true "relationship", as it pertains to our existence, not as we wish it to be, but as actually we find it?


I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

What do you mean as we "wish it to be" instead of "finding it"? It's all an illusion anyway.



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