We (Muslims) are going to stone obelisks this Friday.

reply to post by The_Phantom

So you fight the Zionists, woopty-doo, don't you realize that the Vatican will just fight for the land back? It's not about the Jews that live in Israel at all, they are pawns in bigger game. The Vatican is your enemy, so go throw some stones at an obelisk and think about St. Peters Square.

Thank you for your reply.

I always appreciate new and different points of view like yours.

I was suspecting that they are not just some Zionists that have taken over Palestine. Studying the symbols , I came to know that the game will be bigger than Israel. I was always thinking that if we press some Israel buttons , other ( who I don't expect ) would be angry.

So I would appreciate if you could explain more about the connection you have mentioned.

thank you

Originally posted by hmdphantom
reply to post by The_Phantom

 

So you fight the Zionists, woopty-doo, don't you realize that the Vatican will just fight for the land back? It's not about the Jews that live in Israel at all, they are pawns in bigger game. The Vatican is your enemy, so go throw some stones at an obelisk and think about St. Peters Square.

Thank you for your reply.

I always appreciate new and different points of view like yours.

I was suspecting that they are not just some Zionists that have taken over Palestine. Studying the symbols , I came to know that the game will be bigger than Israel. I was always thinking that if we press some Israel buttons , other ( who I don't expect ) would be angry.

So I would appreciate if you could explain more about the connection you have mentioned.

thank you

edit on 22/8/11 by hmdphantom because: (no reason given)

What language is your sig?

Islam today is not the islam of muhammad. You should do more research and stop posting and responding until you know what you are dealing with.

Can you answer my question, or just decline? It doesn't matter becauase you seem to be a blind follower who mixing up poltricks with religion. So Sad.

reply to post by billy197300

word of God are ALL written by men. Just like you, just like me.

Ok. The fact that I have faced is they were doing much better than me. I haven't read that they have been doing evil things that I am doing in a day. They were not asking for money or treasures for what they were doing. They just did it for god.

For example if I were Jesus , I would get a store and I would cure people for money. If I were Mose , I would deal with Pharon and would slaughter all Sons Of Israel (Jacob) . ...

God has the ultimate knowledge and knows who to chose to not to betray him.

Don't be a sheeple and let ANYONE but you answer that question

I have lots of questions that I have failed to get some answer by myself.

IMO if you do you have trivialized the most important question in life or are incapable of self identity.

I have identity for myself. I have chosen Islam to get to my answers and to live by.Nothing would guaranty that you will success in your religion . You should act for yourself to get some results.

reply to post by wcitizen


Yes but what you're trying to achieve is a generic race of Humans whose only identity is that they are Human, or is that labelling still? You're trying to change the Human mind. We label to identify, we cannot just switch off that part of our brain, rightly or wrongly and everyone does it, regardless of what people's opinion of it is. I hear the most apparently liberal person turn around and start calling individuals bigot etc when the opinion is different to theirs and likewise the other way around. In an ideal world, I'm sure that this would be the case. However, as Humans are emotional beings, not computers, we identify and label everyone and everything as a way of explaining and giving reason to the world and to everything within, we use it in both positive and negative and this is how the universe works as a whole. We cannot just switch off attributes as and when, especially one so complex. Also, as already stated, when a person thinks a certain way or in a certain belief, they want a sense of belonging and so engage in others who have that same mindset. We would not have a fraction of the knowledge that we have today, if we did not label. If we did not group together belief systems and opinions, in order to find out more about the people who follow such concepts and to understand them better. To understand Humans around the world better. Yes we can use it negatively, but as I said, that is the balance of life.
What you are suggesting does not exist and in my opinion, cannot exist. I bet you, you label just as much as the next person, even if you don't see it as such.

To be more accepting of other people's beliefs, opinions etc, of course we can gain greatly from that. To strip labels from fear of the negative impact, to me, would cause an even greater negative impact.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by angus1745

This just perfectly illustrates the violent and primitive nature of this most twisted and offensive of religions.
These people disgust me, so do christians, jews and any other group of moronic imbeciles who believe in an omnipotent supernatural entity. Sorry but anyone I meet who starts banging on about 'God and Jesus' just gets branded a flaky idiot in my eyes. I have no time for people who waste their lives on that rubbish.
Einstein said it best: 'All religion is childish superstition'
Damn right.

Hi. You called the participants of this thread "moronic imbeciles".
Excuse me? Just who asked you to hang around in this part of the forum... a place which is infested by people who "disgust you"... especially christians, jews and other groups of imbeciles (your words) ?

Please dont tell me you actually chose to come in here and post your opinions in an ATS sub-forum that did not concern you...

Originally posted by SecretFace
reply to post by wcitizen

 

Yes but what you're trying to achieve is a generic race of Humans whose only identity is that they are Human, or is that labelling still?

No, what I would like the world to achieve is relating to each other on the basis of everything we have in common, as fellow human beings, in peace and respect. I would like to see us all realising that if we pull together we can make each others lifes infinitely better and if we stay divided as per the conditioning by TPTB we will continue to cause terrible suffering to each other and our planet.

You're trying to change the Human mind. We label to identify, we cannot just switch off that part of our brain, rightly or wrongly and everyone does it, regardless of what people's opinion of it is.

No, the human psyche has been conditioned, brainwashed and damaged by the constant and ubiquitous government controlled propaganda and mind control which is everywhere in our society.

I want the human mind and heart to heal and return to the truth, instead of being dominated by the lies of the corrupt few who, for now, still hold positions of power.

I hear the most apparently liberal person turn around and start calling individuals bigot etc when the opinion is different to theirs and likewise the other way around. In an ideal world,

Exactly, that shows how meaningless most labels are.

I'm sure that this would be the case. However, as Humans are emotional beings, not computers, we identify and label everyone and everything as a way of explaining and giving reason to the world and to everything within, we use it in both positive and negative and this is how the universe works as a whole.

Yes, labels are necessary as I have said, to enable us to communicate, but when we start to identify with labels, treat labels as though they were the things themselves and not just signposts, we cease to distinguish between many important characteristics of the thing 'labelled' and as a result we frequently de-humanise our experience and create our own mental prison.

For example, my friend used to have a cat which was very vicious, for some reason. Does that make all cats vicious? Do a handful of alleged extremists make all Muslims bad?.

For example, instead of labelling people 'muslim extremists' and condemning Islam and all Muslims as a result, , I prefer to think/speak in terms of 'human beings who seek to kill those who don't share their beliefs' (IF that is how you perceive a 'muslim extremist'). In this way using a specific description instead of a label changes the paradigm?

So, to pursue the example, now I am critical of a group of people or individuals who want to kill those who don't share their beliefs/values. The focus is on the actions and the actions and the perpetrators of those actions, not on any label. Consequently can also see that there are many similar groups/individuals, including our own governments who are pepetrators of the same kind of actions. So, in this way we condemn certain actions and the perpetrators. This focuses the condemnation on an action and the perpetrator...and doesn't victimise any innocent groups because of a mistaken belief in a 'label'. In fact, it then is obvious that I have most in common with all those people who seek to live in peace, irrespective of any label Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc and very little in common with those who want to kill others who don't share their beliefs, irrespecive of any label as well.

We cannot just switch off attributes as and when, especially one so complex.

We may not be able to simply switch off an attribute in a split second, especially if it is one we have had for a long time, but to say we cannot change the way our mind works is completely incorrect.

Also, as already stated, when a person thinks a certain way or in a certain belief, they want a sense of belonging and so engage in others who have that same mindset.

The 'herd' mentality.

We would not have a fraction of the knowledge that we have today, if we did not label. If we did not group together belief systems and opinions, in order to find out more about the people who follow such concepts and to understand them better. To understand Humans around the world better. Yes we can use it negatively, but as I said, that is the balance of life.

I need to repeat.....again.....that I have already said, at least twice, that we need labels to be able to communicate. But the problem is we end up believing in the label instead of the multi-facteted thing/being it represents.

What you are suggesting does not exist and in my opinion, cannot exist. I bet you, you label just as much as the next person, even if you don't see it as such.

I use lables as a necessary means of communicating. But I don't identify people with any label which may be attributed to them. Take for example the word 'criminal'. It's a label used for anyone who has been found guilty of a crime within the current (corrupt) court system. Not all those labelled 'criminal' are bad people, not all those labelled 'criminal' have done something I would consider wrong. To use a current example, I read an article today, on ATS, in which it is stated that those who don't support the wars are now considered to be a threat to national security.

The government manipulates people's opinion by use of the label 'terrorist', and in the US dissenters are now considered 'terrorists'. Simpy the use of the word 'terrorist' sways public opinion against given groups of people - because the government sticks a label on them and the public don't think further than what the label means - they don't look beyond the label.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say what I am suggesting cannot exist. I truly believe it is possible to create a world of peace.

To be more accepting of other people's beliefs, opinions etc, of course we can gain greatly from that. To strip labels from fear of the negative impact, to me, would cause an even greater negative impact.

Labels are often very non-specific - Muslims, Jews, Christians, Atheists, Terrorists, Criminals, etc. are used to mislead and often to generate hatred and/or fear, and the governments deliberately employ these tactics to create and sustain divisions and hatred.

won't someone save the obelisks??



Seriously - religon is a primitive method for explaining why things happen, and atempting to gain control over things that are not understood - if yo have a god, and you think you can pray to that god to change things, then that gives you some sense that yuo can control what is important - rain, sun, life, death, business success, etc.

Of course for some people religon still does help them cope with their everyday lives & can be seen as useful in that context.

So it is going to take a long time for humanity to throw off this crutch, and it will probably not go peacefully either.

reply to post by JasonT

we are three chapters of the same testament of God

Thank you for your replies.

I think that those statements are from a person who cares about history and the other people. Great point of view.

reply to post by wcitizen

Originally posted by wcitizen
Underneath the labels which were explicitly designed to create divisions in society, we are all human beings, all brothers and sisters, all from the same source.

Continuing to believe in and defend LABELS is pretty insane.

And it couldn't better fulfill the purposes of the dark ones....because when an idiotic identification with LABELS prevails, the world remains divided - and thus the Dark ones retain control.

They know that once we unite across the world, THEY are FINISHED.

If you truly want peace, stop identifying with insane labels, stop killing and unite with all your brothers and sisters.

Preface

I like the frame of your thinking and I accept lots of the details except some others.
so ,Thank you for your reply and thank you for expressing concerns.

I know about labels and divide , but religion is a way more than a label and furthermore, those Divide Labels are forced while I have chosen this label . I have learned much from my religion that I cannot put that aside. So , all around the world I have seen less people who are both analyzing and acting like my brothers.

1.What is Islam good for ?

1.I have learned much about my ego and how to control it.
2.In every aspect of life , there are instructions.
3.Islam is based on actions and encourages people to act the right way. That is really needed in the present time.That is why Iraqi people are living a good life with Iraqi forces. ( they are passive and they accepted TPTB to rule their country)
4.Islam really encourages people to stand up and fight for each others.
5.Islam has the potential to stop this mind control that we are facing in the modern world. Because it is about controlling mind and ego and fighting with devil.
6.Accepting Islam won't guaranty anything , unless you start controlling your ego and doing good things.
7.Supporters of Islam are aware because they know they are not gods favorites and they should be aware about themselves ( the gift they have )
8.Muslims rely on the other side and they sacrifice everything they have to get to their goals.
9.Jihad is another gift for Muslims.

In this numb era of history , Muslims can be the most active people. While church is deciding to let Gays marry in church , Muslims are fighting their enemies.

2.What about the unity ?

I think that it is very possible that people around the world ,would be involved in the wars TPTB would make to survive.

For that point of history , there will be inevitable unity between Anti-TPTB groups.

So I think , what you are telling us to do will be possible if you keep on informing others about TPTB as I am doing.

Originally posted by DeNaga
Islam today is not the islam of muhammad. You should do more research and stop posting and responding until you know what you are dealing with.

I have to pop in and say that DeNaga is one of the only posters in a thread such as this, that I have encountered, that actually knows what he's talking about. The OP would do well to listen to him.

reply to post by DeNaga

What language is your sig?

Sorry I forgot to answer your question. The language is English and it is : hmd+phantom.
hmd is a mystery that I can't tell and phantom is a word I like like a codename.

You are telling me that Islam has changed ? How do you proof it ? or you are just saying?

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

if yo have a god, and you think you can pray to that god to change things, then that gives you some sense that yuo can control what is important - rain, sun, life, death, business success, etc.

It is not like a deal . There are always tests :

1. He gives you some thing ==> the test : Are you grateful ? do you use it in a right way ?
2. He gets something from you ==> the test : Are you still grateful ?
3.He doesn't give you some thing you demand ==> the test : Do you stay and believe in him or you just turn away ?

So , it is not as simple as you say. The whole life is a gift and you should be grateful for all aspects .

reply to post by primoaurelius

Originally posted by primoaurelius
reply to post by primoaurelius

 

but then again, its only my opinion, and i am only human.
i only ask, that we listen to our hearts, develop ourselves from our hearts,
insted of developing ourselves based on the opinons, values, and morals or our family friends and society.
think,
for yourself

Really ? Will it lead to any change ? Would my heart tell me that I should stand up against TPTB ? Would my heart tell me that I should stand up against the people who invaded my country ?

My heart doesn't say so.

May be it's broken (kidding)

In a world without Islam:

1. There would be no terror
2. There would be no airport security checks
3. There would be no Homeland Security
4. There would be no Sept. 11th
5. Bin laden would be selling tractors to Jews
6. There would be no war in Iraq, Afghanistan, or Libya
7. Israel would not have to use the Sampson option on Iran

The world would simply be a better place to live. But that's just a pipe dream now. The days of peace are gone and tribulations own the planet until the end is fulfilled.

If there is one good thing about Islam, it is that it shows what people should not do to other people.

OP, did you know that there is an Obelisk in the Vatican?
Did you know that they stand around it and hold services by its "feet"?
Did you know that in the Christian bible it says that the Obelisks is where Satan resides?
If you ever read The Bible (Mathew) you will see that the Catholic church does everything that "God" tells them not to do and that whomever does these things are the followers of Lucifer.

I just wanted to know if you or anyone else knew about this, thanks.

By the way, I am an Atheist.

reply to post by dilly1

You should attempt to educate yourself on all forms of history and realize how God or all Gods is a human invention.

That kind of education is not based on natural facts , it is illusion invention . definition of modern education is just a shell and it more about Omanism than the facts and nature. I have been educated myself and I know it.

The true story is :

God tells us : You should be aware of yourself and you should rely on me to guide you.
Marx : Religion Is the Opiate of the Masses

I : Trust in god and I see that it is hard to control my ego and be aware of old enemy (satan) . So the easy way is to accept what Marx says instead of God.

That picture with the thousands of Muslims standing around an obelisk ,is a perfect example why the middle east still in the dark ages

How do you define dark age ? They are not living in the houses not like yours , Not invading other countries so their people could live a better life ?

The only dark point of Muslims is that they are following west , They are dreaming of doing what west has done and has failed .They are following the American Dream which is a legend.

Islam is a very young religion and is still ,obviously, going thru growing pains which all religions go thru.

We won't be following you . You turn your back on church while our religious leaders don't have luxury tendencies like your popes.

That is what makes you a Capitalist . You think that you have chosen the right way and you say that there is no other way.

nd please don't think I'm favoring christians,,,, like I said ALL faiths are evil

Of course the West story is not about religion , it is about taking more advantages , there are not much moral reasons.

Originally posted by Elieser
OP, did you know that there is an Obelisk in the Vatican?
Did you know that they stand around it and hold services by its "feet"?
Did you know that in the Christian bible it says that the Obelisks is where Satan resides?
If you ever read The Bible (Mathew) you will see that the Catholic church does everything that "God" tells them not to do and that whomever does these things are the followers of Lucifer.

I just wanted to know if you or anyone else knew about this, thanks.

By the way, I am an Atheist.

Tell me Atheist, do you have anything negative to say about Islam, or does fear grip you. It's easy to pick on Christians, anyone can do that. So what say you, got anything on the Islams ?

reply to post by Fromabove


Honestly, I do not know much about Islam, only what the MSM has told us. All I know is what the Catholic church has been doing for centuries in the name of their God and what they have done has been worst than what anyone has ever done in the name of their God.

Edit: I do not agree with most religions, I do not condone laws based on religions either nor would I like to be in a place governed by Muslim law. The thing is, the Muslims are not hiding what they do and what they want to do. The Catholics (The Vatican not the followers) have been so sleasy, so incredibly bad (evil) that it sickens me.

Originally posted by Elieser
reply to post by Fromabove

 

Honestly, I do not know much about Islam, only what the MSM has told us. All I know is what the Catholic church has been doing for centuries in the name of their God and what they have done has been worst than what anyone has ever done in the name of their God.

Well just to be fair, can't you do at least a little research so you can give them a tweak or two. You have to admit this Christian resistance thing gets old after awhile. Besides, if you get them angry they'll try to kill you so there's some excitement there at least. All most Christians are gonna do is forgive you most of the time. What fun is there in that ?