Sovereign Citizenship... I am a sovereign Citizen... are you?

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posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 09:14 PM
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reply to post by reptiliannogmar
 


If you are refuring to me as your "main basher" that is not my intent. I just want you to explain how your crazy you-tube ideas and interent blogs actually work in real life. You say you still pay for your home but how do you have a work visa? Is your employer not taking out payroll taxes? I just have questions that i am asking and have not got any answers.




posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by reptiliannogmar
 


So a quick google search and you can find that Native Americans pay taxes unless they work on a reservation and from a previous post you are not on one soooo?



posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 09:18 PM
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reply to post by Campy61
 


Did not know that sovereign citizenship entails such badgering. geez..


Maybe Ill go down the street to Golded moon and take hoards of cash from the casinos since I know how to count...

But your right. Maybe I should help people out who dont have to money to do it. Maybe if I could get a huge group of 100 people who want to be like me I could get 100 sovereign citizenships for the price of one????????



posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by Campy61
reply to post by reptiliannogmar
 


So how can you say your American? Your not a citizen, you cant actually own any property, you can be deported just for being here, you have no right to travel on any roadway since you dont pay taxes for the upkeep, you have no right to any type of police protection.

If you do any of the ilegal things you mentioned you can be put in prison or deported just like any other ilegal alien.
edit on 20-8-2011 by Campy61 because: (no reason given)


We're all born sovereign, and have unalieable rights, and no one can take those from us, that is slavery and even if 99% co-create slavery and hell with the leaders it would be criminal of me to co-create that with you. Nonetheless, we belong to the land we're born on, are not illegal aliens or any such thing, intrinsic rights and birth rights to our locales. Also, being a sovereign is not just about going through complicated procedures or not believing in equalizing money while there is money. That seems to be a US thing. English common law saw everyone having access to land and resources. Not that it was really done in practice, just in principal. And we don't have that system now, so its not quite the same thing.

So choosing to support schools, hospitals and services and refusing to support wars/military and abuse of tax dollars is also a choice people need to make.

And to not buy one thing, ie. soveriegnity defined in this way, or the society you live in, or their yo yo way of either standing, or sitting or using the right language.

I'd just say, I don't care, what language you're using, as your BOSS and the Employer Group, its treason to let you run around making up the rules, I speak my language, and mean what I mean. And can sit or stand and still NEVER STAND UNDER YOU. I don't play your legal games. And if you come near me after demonstrating to me your a fascist by integrity and honor I wil be forced to perform a citizens arrest.

Thats me. I'm a hippy loving, equal rights, cooperative, share and share alike soveriegn. So the sovereign movement based on this almost conservative viewpoint never really interested me too much. I'm not a conservative.
edit on 20-8-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by reptiliannogmar
So in a thread here in The Political Madness page I had someone question my right to be an American since I am a sovereign citizen. He for some reason thinks that I am denied my American Pride when I became a Sovereign Citizen. When in fact I believe I have embraced it. I have shut out public civil and government authority and embraced The Constitution and my Amendment Rights in a way I never could have done as an American Citizen. Yet I believe vice versa. I believe that I would not have the freedoms I have today had I not denounced my American citizenship. I believe that according to the constitution and Amendment rights that I am more American now that ever before.

You decide. I no longer live by public local state or government laws. But English Common Law.

The American way is believing in The Constitution, you Amendment rights, hope peace and happiness. You can believe in something with out it actually working. Well since I became a Sovereign Citizen these documents finally work for me.

So what does being a Sovereign Citizen actually entail...

I do not pay any taxes what so ever since I am a sovereign citizen.

But that does not mean I does not have American pride. It just means that I protect myself from the corrupt American Government the best I can.

I protect myself from The bankers stealing my money.

It means I dont have to pay traffic tickets or be documented as a cocky mamy bull# licensed driver.

It means that you cant sue me, the government cant sue me.

It means that THE BANKERS AND TPTB HAVE PAYED OFF MY DEBTS by means of debt bonds.

It means that I can walk into any bank I want and ask for these bonds and refusal means that that bank would have do deal with stacks of paperwork and the American court system.

It means that no one man or court can decide my fate.

It also means that I am part of an "extremist anti-government group" according to the FBI. Which I am perfectly happy with as long as I AM A FREE MAN.

It means that I can smoke my mary jane and big brother cant do # about it.

It means that I can grow my mary jane and big brother cant do # about it.

It means that I have disconnected myself from the public civil government and bull# reaches of the TPTB.

It means although I still pay, that I dont have to pay my mortgage and no body can do # about it.

And I am surprised that all ATS members have not done this.

It means that I truly I have my civil liberties I have my civil rights given to me by my birth as a human not as an American.

IT MEANS THAT I AM A REAL AMERICAN AND HAVE THE RIGHTS OF LIFE AND LIBERTY FREEDOM HAPPINESS AND THE TRUE AMERICAN WAY AS IT IS DESCRIBED IN THE CONSTITUTION AND THE AMERICAN AMENDMENT RIGHTS THAT WERE GIVEN TO ME AS A BIRTH RIGHT. Even if I am no longer an American citizen I am more free than probably everyone on this damn site.

iT MEANS THAT YOU DONT AND THAT YOU ARE NO AMERICAN CITIZEN BUT RATHER AND AMERICAN CAPTIVE.

Nuff said... DONE.

Get a lawer

get a loan to pay that lawer

Then become a sovereign citizen

Become an independent

Be free of the corrupt American government.

Be prosperous happy and truly embrace The Constitution and Amendment rights by reject the American Government out of your life.
edit on 20-8-2011 by reptiliannogmar because: (no reason given)


Hmm I'm must not be seeing the part where you said you were a native american
maybe I am just dumb perhaps you can enlighten me



posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 09:19 PM
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reply to post by reptiliannogmar
 


This is absurd that this is thread is still going on.

THERE are perfectly LEGAL non Crazy gun nut ways of Fighting the government peacefully.

I am slowly removing myself from the system by learning to grow my own crops so I don't feed more into the corruption.

I have purchased a diesel vehicle in order to get FREE fuel from local food places.

I am buying property out right which I will pay taxes on.

I will be installing both solar and wind power.

AND I will continue to vote my conscious even if it doesn't make a difference.

I believe the system can be saved, and am unwilling to give up on it.



posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by Campy61
 


obviously this is not going where I thought it would go. So mercy. But I am still a sovereign citizen soooooo I got one thing to say look up the peter griffin video of you cant touch me.... lol



posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by reptiliannogmar
 


Its not badgering its called debate. If you dont wanna respond to my questions with any real answers that is fine but that does not mean I cant ask remember the motto of ATS.



posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 09:22 PM
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reply to post by reptiliannogmar
 


LOL I already posted it in this thread
No hard feelings or anything Im just full of questions tonight and this is the first new thread I came across.



posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 09:22 PM
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You know on a lighter note this thread brought to mind this part from the Holy Grail
edit on 20-8-2011 by ELahrairah because: bats in my bellfree



posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 09:26 PM
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reply to post by reptiliannogmar
 


Like everyone else here, your actions do not directly affect me. I have no logical reason to offer you advice, but some part of me is urging me to. I expect you'll ignore it, but I would have done my bit and gone to bed with a clear conscience.

My parents were proud when they were able to attend my graduation from one of the top ten law schools. I say that not as evidence that I am right, only that I am not completely ignorant. Nor am I saying that you are completely ignorant.

The Freeman tactics HAVE worked a very few times, almost exclusively for small ticket matters, or minor misdemeanors. The court's attitude in these cases is usually: "I've got enough to do without having certifiable lunatics messing up my day. Throw him out of here." The Freeman movement counts these rare occurences as "wins." I don't.

What happens rather more often is that the judge will either fine the person without bothering to listen past the first few statements, or, if he's really irritated, find that person in contempt.

Freemen, unions, and other activists have been filing harassment liens and other documents over the last few years. They exploit a principle of the system which leads the court to believe that the person filing the papers is being honest and aboveboard so their "victim" has to jump through time consuming (and expensive) legal hoops to clear up the situation.

My advice to you is to rethink your position. Call your State Bar Association and ask for a list of attorneys who will provide a half-hour free consultation. Visit as many as you want, dozens if you like, and REALLY listen to them. I can assure you that if the techniques you described were sound they would have swept through the legal profession a long time ago.

By the way, Homeland Security is out looking for soverign citizens. That's not a reason to change your position, but for crying out loud, don't broadcast it. Be careful talking to strangers in the bar or anywhere else.

Anyway, I've done my good deed for the day. The sad part is you probably won't see it that way.



posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by reptiliannogmar
 


I don't know about the difference between US first nations rights or ours in Canada, my two oldest sons are status native. But under many circumstances, natives do not pay taxes nor property taxes already and already are somewhat sovereign within the nation of Canada. So its more of a feat if someone does this who is not native. I have seen a few cases where they won, one was in Canada


freeman in court - judge bows to Sovereign - Canada

edit on 20-8-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by reptiliannogmar
 


Awesome, Im gonna stop by with a few friends and take all of your stuff & harvest your organs... you're cool with that right? I mean you wouldn't call 911 or anything because that's for American Citizens... I hope you have a decent military... you're gonna need it. =)

Of course I'm being facetious... but in all honesty, you should re evaluate your life choices. In any case good luck with all future endeavors.



posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by reptiliannogmar
reply to post by Bramble Iceshimmer
 


How can you disagree with me. By doing so you agree with the governmental influence on people. Is that not what we here on ATS are trying to stop. Sovereign citizenship separates the corrupt governmental hand that governs society. Allowing a person to truly live freely and still let the government get the important things that need to be done done. I am all for government. Just not the fascist socalist government that is going on now. If everyone in America would become sovereign citizens the Governement would have no choice but to defect back to the democracy and diplomacy on which this country was built on. They would not have the money to start fictitious wars. The Bankers and FED would not have to money to be sole owners of power in the world and we would finally have a prosperous economy and a peacful world. By going against sovereign citizen ship you are agreeing to the let the saying "so dark the con of man continue.

No, all your doing is throwing a tantrum, taking your toys and going home. There will be no change because you and others decided to try and cut yourself off from the rest of society. Your movement is just as silly as those trying to build sovereign islands on abandoned oil rigs. The only way change will happen is to work within the system, one law/regulation at a time. As for everyone becoming sovereign, just who would vote those in power out of power since the sovereigns aren't citizens.

As John Donne wrote, "No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is a peece of the Continent, a part of the maine; if a Clod bee washed away by the Sea, Europe is the lesse, as well as if a Promontorie were, as well as if a Mannor of thy friends or of thine owne were; any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee."



posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by reptiliannogmar
You decide. I no longer live by public local state or government laws. But English Common Law.


Every time I see one of these threads, I also see the above statement in some form.

Now, being an Englishman and somewhat learned on the Laws of our Land, it is plainly obvious every time I see this "English Common Law" thing being trotted out that, in the context it is being used, that the person saying such things clearly has no idea what Common Law is, let alone English Common Law.

It would appear that certain sections of American society believe that English Common law is some magical thing that grants someone immunity from everything. This is, was and always shall be total bollocks.

Common Law is merely another name for Case Law and is usually found living quite happily alongside constitutional law, statutory law and regulatory law wherever it may be found.

Bottom line is, Common Law/Case law is law by precedent. Unless you can demonstrate that recognised Courts of the USA have allowed such declarations of personal Sovereignty to be legal and binding, then what you're talking about is BS.

I am pretty sure that anyone who has tried this has fallen foul of the Law at some point and it is in fact more strongly enshrined in precendent that the Laws of the US are binding, not fanciful Laws you seem to imagine existed long, long ago in a Dragon filled land far, far away...

Next you'll be telling us King Arthur gauranteed your rights as man and he should be obeyed.....



posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 09:41 PM
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reply to post by Bramble Iceshimmer
 


Its not about that. Its about not allowing fascist corporate law, to replace the only legal form of law that ever was, and even that is debatable, common law. Courts running the corporate flag are Treason and Fascism. It is not the right of the government to take away our rights, and to force us to pay for liscenses or prohibit our use of land, putting as many homes as we wish and making family eco farms for example, or running businesses from them or forcing us to pay for big corporatations and wars. It never was their right and never will be their right.

The constitution is actually not my favorite document, I don't think its God and written in stone. We're in a hellzone here, so everything there is a distortion. However, the constitutions of our countries do not, I repeat, legally, THEY DO NOT GIVE YOU YOUR RIGHTS. You have unalieable rights. Period. And Freedom. The natural laws pertain to murder, rape and extortion. Their corporate laws ARE extortion.

The constitution takes a few of your rights and waters them down to compromise these with the needs of the state. So opposite of what most people think, LEGALLY.

Corporate/NAVY law is Roman Law, and its a crime against humanity, illegal. The US/Canada run as corporations is a Crime Against Humanity, Fascism and Illegal. Intrinsically so.

The Free Man Movement is breathe of fresh air for awareness and educating people about the real fasicst illegal world they're living in.

Hmmmm.... did I say roman law.

It goes back probably 8000 years with the RAKA pharoahs, and the RA-KA-M shields, one given the adminstration and one given the money, and control of the money. And, there is mention of the stone masons which translated into free then too.


The Terra Papers - Hidden History of Planet Earth 4



posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 10:18 PM
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you're nuts

line 2
edit on 20-8-2011 by spinalremain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by reptiliannogmar
reply to post by Campy61
 


Do we have another infant in our midst. I think so. You have no understanding of how Sovereign Citizenship works. You have your understanding of how it works.Iand I cant be deported I have protected myself against that also. You see... I have native American Blood in me. Choctaw and Navajo to be exact. I dont know if they could have deported me before I joined The Choctaw Nation but they cant now. So there you go. Eating a hamburger right now brb to the tread convo.


Looks like you don't understand how Sovereign Citizenship works.

A Sovereign Citizen is a person who has declared, evidently by filling out certain forms, that he or she is a citizen only of him- or herself, a nation of one, who just happens to be residing inside another nation, i.e., the United States of America as currently defined.

What you have done is become a citizen of a sovereign nation -- the Choctaw Nation.

Despite your delusion, you are not a Sovereign Citizen. You are subject to the laws of the Choctaw Nation.



posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by reptiliannogmar


Get a lawer

get a loan to pay that lawer



So in order to be a sovereign citizen you have to get a loan from the very banks you are trying to fight and hire a lawyer (also establishment profession) so that what? The government will agree that you are sovereign? But why would you need their agreement?



posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 10:33 PM
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Dear Unity_99,

Please reread Stumason's post, and if you feel like it, mine too. You may not have presented your thoughts the way you intended to, they seem very disjointed and not something I'd care to depend on.

You start by saying it's debatable whether there has ever been a "legal form of law." What can that mean? All law violates the law? What law is all law violating? Do you see why I'm wondering?

When you say that some courts run the corporate flag, what does that mean? That corporations write our laws? Of course they don't. That corporations influence our laws? Some laws, I suppose, but so does the Sierra Club and Al Sharpton. Corporations don't always win and some laws are anti-corporate.

Being upset about zoning laws and fees for licenses is probably not going to win you much sympathy. I do, however, sympathize with your position that we have inalienable rights (or "unalienable rights" if you prefer). But where do you get your belief that those rights exist? From the Constitution? But that's not your favorite document. The idea that there are inalienable rights is a modern idea, relatively. Pharaoh Whats-his-name and the Romans didn't have it, nor did the Greeks, Muslims, or any one else outside of the last 400 years or so. (I'm shaky on the number.) Certainly the history of slavery should teach you that freedom has only recently been considered an inalienable right. Even then, many countries still don't accept it in practice.

I'm sorry but honestly, I just don't feel able to work with your post any longer. I do think you should reconsider your statements.

With respect,
Charles1952
edit on 20-8-2011 by charles1952 because: remove misleading quote codes (Hey, I'm tired.)





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